This is reality...

[#gosaintas]

I'd be happy with 6 games a year in NZ. I sat in the middle of a bunch of Maoris in Wellington this year and they were loving it. I think we could make a go of it. Obviously we are starting from a low base and we shouldn't go to 6 games next year but provided we are rewarded with cash/sponsorship, some sort of academy rewards and fixture rewards then why not.

[plugger66]

We need to capitise on the good times which will come. We somehow failed last time which is pathtetic and said that many times. I dont think NZ have any interest in our game

I don't think "no interest" is going to stop the AFL if they think there's money to be made over there.

I'm in Queensland at the moment. All my rellies here are adamant that no-one cares about Aussie Rules. I'm sure that's true for most of the state. Yet the AFL has put two teams here in the past thirty years.

Commercial reality isn't just about crowds and TV - it's also about having a bigger pool of sponsors to draw on. Not sure if that's the league's justification but I wouldn't rule out an NZ team in the foreseeable future.

Agree with all of that but TV is the main source of income. There is no way TV in NZ will make one cent for the AFL. It does in Queensland for some reason. There will never be a side in NZ well not in the next 30 years. After that selfishly I couldnt give a rats.

[#gosaintas]

The AFL would also love to expand the game to NZ. They will look past TV ratings for that.

[plugger66]

The AFL would also love to expand the game to NZ. They will look past TV ratings for that.

How do they make money if it isnt TV rights. I dont think they care and more importantly the NZ public couldnt give a rats.

[#gosaintas]

The AFL will look beyond short term profits to grow the game. That's what good businesses do. I have no idea if we are thinking along these lines or if the AFL are...but to me it makes sense. The NZ public might show some interest over time, particularly if there is a way for the Maori population to get involved. They certainly have the physical attributes to play the game.

I just don't believe that any club can live off the AFL teat for a prolonged period because one day the AFL will turn us off or relocate us. Somehow we have to be the master of our own destiny. If there is another way then I am all for that too.

[st.byron]

Just throwing in the question of how different would things look for us if we had a stadium deal where we actually made money?
NZ might be one part of the puzzle, but I'd be curious to know exactly how different our bottom line would look if we made money out of our home games.

[citywest]

Just throwing in the question of how different would things look for us if we had a stadium deal where we actually made money?
NZ might be one part of the puzzle, but I'd be curious to know exactly how different our bottom line would look if we made money out of our home games.

Even if we had a better stadium deal we would only be better off by $2mill maximum per year. Don't forget, we have half the members Collingfilth do.

[70s sainter]

Id like to know how many N.Zrs actually become members of an AFL footy team when they come over here. I imagine the number would be quite insignificant.
Considering the population of Melbourne , an afl mad city, is about 4mill -there is 450,000 members of Melb teams, which is 10% of the population.
How many N.Zers move to Melb each year? 5000? Even if 10% of them bought an afl membership which i highly doubt, and even if all of them went with the saints, that works out to 500 members.
Sure 500 members would be nice but i would prefer to target the melbourne supporters who arent members. Or even melbournians who dont follow any team.

How do you do that? Well for one , you offer them a decent membership package - not selling games overseas.
N.Z is a money grab only. Dont try to dress it up as the best way to get new members because it never will be.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think it is a fundamentally crazy notion to look at teams sucking off the AFL largesse/teet/welfare like GWS and GC and then try to use them as role models and then to artificially contrive a situation (moving to NZ) where we become an AFL 'welfare' side. I mean its madness.

If thats what weve come down to after 120 years - well thats fine - but then just admit you have given up. Dont try it sell it as an 'innovation'.

It is like saying - well I can keep my medium paying job in Melbourne or move to a rural area with high unemployment where it is easy to get the dole and the Government is known to pitch in. I know about rent-seeking behaviour but this is crazy.

If GWS and GC are now our role models we are truly sick.

[#gosaintas]

I think it is a fundamentally crazy notion to look at teams sucking off the AFL largesse/teet/welfare like GWS and GC and then try to use them as role models and then to artificially contrive a situation (moving to NZ) where we become an AFL 'welfare' side. I mean its madness.

If thats what weve come down to after 120 years - well thats fine - but then just admit you have given up. Dont try it sell it as an 'innovation'.

It is like saying - well I can keep my medium paying job in Melbourne or move to a rural area with high unemployment where it is easy to get the dole and the Government is known to pitch in. I know about rent-seeking behaviour but this is crazy.

If GWS and GC are now our role models we are truly sick.

I guess I will leave this topic alone for now. Hard to argue with well thought out posts like this one.

[matrix]

so getting a better stadium deal will only get us 2 million extra a year?

wheres the numbers and info on that?

[lewdogs]

6 games in NZ would be pretty out there. St Kilda has loads of supporters in Melbourne, we just haven't been good at retaining them. I mean, we've lost about 10,000 members over the last couple of years, when other sides have found ways to boost those numbers.

I'm all for the NZ expansion, but I think 6 games would further ostracise lots of those Victorian supporters. Need to focus on getting more numbers at our games from home (thus the whole Port Melbourne to Portsea mantra).

[Bunk_Moreland]

I think it is a fundamentally crazy notion to look at teams sucking off the AFL largesse/teet/welfare like GWS and GC and then try to use them as role models and then to artificially contrive a situation (moving to NZ) where we become an AFL 'welfare' side. I mean its madness.

Here we go, just because you disagreewith it you pull out all the big insults and hyperbole, "utter crazy", "madness"? Why? Because you dont like the idea?

If thats what weve come down to after 120 years - well thats fine - but then just admit you have given up. Dont try it sell it as an 'innovation'.

Who in hell said anything about innovation, its called survival and winning a bloody flag or two. After 120 year we have one flag and 30k members. A debt the size of Argentina, and no visible means of any new revenue streams, while the likes of Collingwood and Hawwthorn have millions and millions

It is like saying - well I can keep my medium paying job in Melbourne or move to a rural area with high unemployment where it is easy to get the dole and the Government is known to pitch in. I know about rent-seeking behaviour but this is crazy.

Fair Dinkum, we are already on the dole and as you so colourfully put it "sucking off the AFL largesse/teet/welfare (actually spelt teat, but we get your rather over excited drift). We are down the spout every single year without AFL assistance.

You would like us to just get drip fed this pittance and bump along mid table as a non entity just making up the numbers for ever.

If you dont think every AFL team gets a leg up you are seriously deluded. Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon etc get blockbuster games and huge returns from the gate, Sydney and GWS get COLA and first dibs on ALL NSW players, same with Qld, teams who because they have been successful in the past and therefore had the best players get multiple father and son selections.GWS and GC compromised the draft with multiple first round picks (GWS has 27 FFS)

It goes on and on and on and on.

So instead of hyperbole and attacking people who are at least attempting to think laterally and not be ruled by subjectivity and emotion, you give us an alternative to how we are going to compete both financially and on the field, because all I hav eheard from you is abuse and negativity, not one suggestion

If GWS and GC are now our role models we are truly sick.

Who said a model for gods sake??? However why not get some of the AFL largesse?

KiwiKick has gone from a couple of thousand a couple of years back to over 30,000 kids. Considering we have gone to NZ, why should we not get first dibbs? And why should we not get an extra financial leg up for being in a development zone?

You tell us how we are going to compete in the long run in a 10 team state, a 9 team town, and we are going out backwards.

Over to you with you blueprint Con.

[Bunk_Moreland]

6 games in NZ would be pretty out there. St Kilda has loads of supporters in Melbourne, we just haven't been good at retaining them. I mean, we've lost about 10,000 members over the last couple of years, when other sides have found ways to boost those numbers.

I'm all for the NZ expansion, but I think 6 games would further ostracise lots of those Victorian supporters. Need to focus on getting more numbers at our games from home (thus the whole Port Melbourne to Portsea mantra).

I think the deal would have to be 6 games in NZ, 11 and 16 game memberships are compensated by compensation games in Melbourne (games at Etihad preferrably) and no other "interstate games for the Saints.

The AFL does the FIXture every year and could make that happen.

[stevie]

This is kind of linked to this thread but I'll throw it out there:

I was suprised to hear the other day that Gold Coast NRL team the Titans have to fork out 300,000 bucks for each home game they play. I assumed they owned the Robina stadium. The TV deal must give them a lot of revenue as their crowds are nothing to write home about, like the average NRL crowds each week in Sydney. 4 years back, the Titans were getting 30k to their home games. But I've heard it is very expensive to buy stuff there. And on warm days, one half of the crowd is in direct sunlight.

[dragit]

I can't see the rush to play 6 games in NZ. I actually think this would be a dangerous move with the risk of full relocation & I have no interest in following a NZ team that wears a red, white & black jumper.

2 or 3 games a year would be plenty.

We might be down now but we've just had ten years of relative success, so it's hard to argue that we are chronically held back by finances.

Genuine equalization will take years to flow through, but I do think it will happen eventually. It's not in the long-term interests of the competition to have 9 mega-clubs and 9 paupers.

We're not going to fold.

[matrix]

6 games in NZ and kiss the melb based st kilda goodbye imo

not idea

[bergholt]

so getting a better stadium deal will only get us 2 million extra a year?

wheres the numbers and info on that?

No idea. But back of the envelope, if we lose $100k per game on 10 games a year that's $1m. If we could have made the same amount again with a better deal, that's $2m. Not that much in the scheme of things. For context, we pay our players a total of about $10m a year.

[plugger66]

6 games in NZ would be pretty out there. St Kilda has loads of supporters in Melbourne, we just haven't been good at retaining them. I mean, we've lost about 10,000 members over the last couple of years, when other sides have found ways to boost those numbers.

I'm all for the NZ expansion, but I think 6 games would further ostracise lots of those Victorian supporters. Need to focus on getting more numbers at our games from home (thus the whole Port Melbourne to Portsea mantra).

I think the deal would have to be 6 games in NZ, 11 and 16 game memberships are compensated by compensation games in Melbourne (games at Etihad preferrably) and no other "interstate games for the Saints.

The AFL does the FIXture every year and could make that happen.

BM that isnt going to happen. The hawks play 4 in Tassie and 5 interstate. Thats 9 with only 4 in Tassie. If we played 6 then based on that it would 11 out of Victoria. Lets give or take one so 10 out of Victoria and 12 in Victoria. We would lost that many members and gain bugger and there isnt anything in it for the AFL. They dont even have Foxtel in NZ, they have sky.