Delistings 2015

[dragit]

Another thing Geelong have been good at doing is recognising which younger fringe players just aren't worth hanging onto.
They have continued to cull players that were getting the occasional game but just weren't good enough… we were sucked into a couple in Gardiner & Gamble… but also guys like Djeurkka, Prismal, Gillies, Byrnes etc

Siposs, Dunell, Milera, Shenton, Ross, Roberton - how many of these guys will really become quality AFL footballers?

I guess the older guys future depends on how many of the above are seen as having a future

Hayes, Maister gone, TDL, Jones, Dunell likely…

Agree on keeping 2 out of Gwilt, Fisher & Dempster.

[Con Gorozidis]

I would think that the melbourne example is more about losing Cam Bruce, James McDonald and Brad Green (as well as Brad Miller to a lesser extent) in a reasonably short timeframe, especially as the first two went on to play another year elsewhere.

We still have 10 sr/experienced players on our list. We are in no fear of 'doing a Melbourne'.

I'm not proposing we cut them all. I think 6-8 is sufficient. 10 seems utterly ridiculous for a bottom side.
Either we are are living in the past or the tail is wagging the dog. Fine to keep 10 if they are holding up their end of the bargain and keeping us mid-table. But that aint happening. Some are free riding/coasting/injured or past it.

[dragit]

I missed Green & McDonald.

They really did shed a lot of senior players in 5 years.

At any rate, we agree with Con that we shouldn't be playing 10 senior guys each week, but going by our recent injuries, we might only have 5 in the side at a time, which would probably be about right.

I don't really want to see Gwilt in the side ahead of Bruce, Jones playing at the expense of Curren/Weller/Saunders and would probably rather we persist with Shenton/Roberton instead of Ray.

The problem with keeping the older guys on the list is the temptation to always play them, while they might offer slightly more than their younger counterpart, we really are desperate to get games into the 20 - 25 bracket, it has to be the priority.

[plugger66]

I would think that the melbourne example is more about losing Cam Bruce, James McDonald and Brad Green (as well as Brad Miller to a lesser extent) in a reasonably short timeframe, especially as the first two went on to play another year elsewhere.

We still have 10 sr/experienced players on our list. We are in no fear of 'doing a Melbourne'.

I'm not proposing we cut them all. I think 6-8 is sufficient. 10 seems utterly ridiculous for a bottom side.
Either we are are living in the past or the tail is wagging the dog. Fine to keep 10 if they are holding up their end of the bargain and keeping us mid-table. But that aint happening. Some are free riding/coasting/injured or past it.

Arent we losing Lenny, maister and probably CJ. Doesnt that get it into 6-8 or do they have to be the players you want to leave. Well like me, you dont have any say it it and there would reasons some that you want to leave are staying. I dont know why but maybe they realise some young guys just wont play in the seniors so whats the point of keeping them.

[The Redeemer]

I would think that the melbourne example is more about losing Cam Bruce, James McDonald and Brad Green (as well as Brad Miller to a lesser extent) in a reasonably short timeframe, especially as the first two went on to play another year elsewhere.

We still have 10 sr/experienced players on our list. We are in no fear of 'doing a Melbourne'.

I'm not proposing we cut them all. I think 6-8 is sufficient. 10 seems utterly ridiculous for a bottom side.
Either we are are living in the past or the tail is wagging the dog. Fine to keep 10 if they are holding up their end of the bargain and keeping us mid-table. But that aint happening. Some are free riding/coasting/injured or past it.

Arent we losing Lenny, maister and probably CJ. Doesnt that get it into 6-8 or do they have to be the players you want to leave. Well like me, you dont have any say it it and there would reasons some that you want to leave are staying. I dont know why but maybe they realise some young guys just wont play in the seniors so whats the point of keeping them.

Recruit Scott Clouston.

[bergholt]

Start of next year as it stands it will be:

32: Fisher, Riewoldt
31: Dempster, Jones, Montagna
30: Schneider
29:
28: Gilbert, Gwilt, Ray
27: Milera
26: Armitage, Dennis-Lane, Geary
25: Delaney, Shenton (r)

24: Dunell, Hickey, Holmes (r), Lee, Savage, Simpkin, Stanley, Steven
23: Roberton, Weller (r)
22: Bruce, Curren, Markworth, Newnes, Siposs
21: Longer, Minchington (r), Murdoch, Ross, Webster, Wright
20: Dunstan, Saunders, Pierce, White
19: Acres, Billings, Templeton (r)
18: Baker-Thomas (r)

Obviously a few more of those will be gone - Jones and Dennis-Lane most likely of the older guys. That leaves 5 players 30 or older. Maximum 13 out of 45 players will be 25 or older. Doesn't sound like a huge number of pensioners to me.

[plugger66]

Start of next year as it stands it will be:

32: Fisher, Riewoldt
31: Dempster, Jones, Montagna
30: Schneider
29:
28: Gilbert, Gwilt, Ray
27: Milera
26: Armitage, Dennis-Lane, Geary
25: Delaney, Shenton (r)

24: Dunell, Hickey, Holmes (r), Lee, Savage, Simpkin, Stanley, Steven
23: Roberton, Weller (r)
22: Bruce, Curren, Markworth, Newnes, Siposs
21: Longer, Minchington (r), Murdoch, Ross, Webster, Wright
20: Dunstan, Saunders, Pierce, White
19: Acres, Billings, Templeton (r)
18: Baker-Thomas (r)

Obviously a few more of those will be gone - Jones and Dennis-Lane most likely of the older guys. That leaves 5 players 30 or older. Maximum 13 out of 45 players will be 25 or older. Doesn't sound like a huge number of pensioners to me.

And thats what some dont get. because we have bugger all 25 to 28 year olds compared to most clubs we have to keep some older guys that otherwise would be asked to retire or be delisted. As you point out we only have 13 who are 25 or older. That would be nearly the least in the AFL apart from the new sides.

[Con Gorozidis]

Start of next year as it stands it will be:

32: Fisher, Riewoldt
31: Dempster, Jones, Montagna
30: Schneider
29:
28: Gilbert, Gwilt, Ray
27: Milera
26: Armitage, Dennis-Lane, Geary
25: Delaney, Shenton (r)

24: Dunell, Hickey, Holmes (r), Lee, Savage, Simpkin, Stanley, Steven
23: Roberton, Weller (r)
22: Bruce, Curren, Markworth, Newnes, Siposs
21: Longer, Minchington (r), Murdoch, Ross, Webster, Wright
20: Dunstan, Saunders, Pierce, White
19: Acres, Billings, Templeton (r)
18: Baker-Thomas (r)

Obviously a few more of those will be gone - Jones and Dennis-Lane most likely of the older guys. That leaves 5 players 30 or older. Maximum 13 out of 45 players will be 25 or older. Doesn't sound like a huge number of pensioners to me.

And thats what some dont get. because we have bugger all 25 to 28 year olds compared to most clubs we have to keep some older guys that otherwise would be asked to retire or be delisted. As you point out we only have 13 who are 25 or older. That would be nearly the least in the AFL apart from the new sides.

I have been warning of the hole in the core age group of our list for 3-4 years now - so I am pretty sure I get it.

It is fair to say Gilbert Gwilt Ray, Armo and Geary are all now experienced players.

So there is a big difference between keeping 'some' older guys and keeping 10.
10 is plain insane as is 5 over 30s where you sit on the bottom already.

For every old guy you have on the list who wont improve that is one less chance of developing a player.

Now if we think 50% of young players will make (it it is probably more like 30%) - for every two young players not on the list - thats 1 potential player we miss out on.

This is what some people dont seem to get.

You need to optimise your % chances for future success. Not manage your list on emotion and feel good or 'mate' factors.

And can we stop having people say - 'we cant get rid of all the experience at once'. Not one single person has suggested that.
The discussion is how many? Noone has called for it to be under 5 old guys and each old guy needs to be judged on their own merits. But clearly some arent doing the job (or we wouldnt be last).

I know for some having the old 09 boys around feels like an old blanket or teddy.

[plugger66]

Start of next year as it stands it will be:

32: Fisher, Riewoldt
31: Dempster, Jones, Montagna
30: Schneider
29:
28: Gilbert, Gwilt, Ray
27: Milera
26: Armitage, Dennis-Lane, Geary
25: Delaney, Shenton (r)

24: Dunell, Hickey, Holmes (r), Lee, Savage, Simpkin, Stanley, Steven
23: Roberton, Weller (r)
22: Bruce, Curren, Markworth, Newnes, Siposs
21: Longer, Minchington (r), Murdoch, Ross, Webster, Wright
20: Dunstan, Saunders, Pierce, White
19: Acres, Billings, Templeton (r)
18: Baker-Thomas (r)

Obviously a few more of those will be gone - Jones and Dennis-Lane most likely of the older guys. That leaves 5 players 30 or older. Maximum 13 out of 45 players will be 25 or older. Doesn't sound like a huge number of pensioners to me.

And thats what some dont get. because we have bugger all 25 to 28 year olds compared to most clubs we have to keep some older guys that otherwise would be asked to retire or be delisted. As you point out we only have 13 who are 25 or older. That would be nearly the least in the AFL apart from the new sides.

I have been warning of the hole in the core age group of our list for 3-4 years now - so I am pretty sure I get it.

It is fair to say Gilbert Gwilt Ray, Armo and Geary are experienced players.

So there is a big difference between keeping 'some' older guys and keeping 10.
10 is plain insane as is 5 over 30s where you sit on the bottom already.

For every old guy you have on the list who wont improve that is one less chance of developing a player.

Now if we think 50% of young players will make (it it is probably more like 30%) - for every two young players not on the list - thats 1 potential player we miss out on.

This is what some people dont seem to get.

You need to optimise your % chances for future success. Not manage your list on emotion and feel good or 'mate' factors.

And can we stop having people say - 'we cant get rid of all the experience at once'. Not one single person has suggested that.
The discussion is how many? Noone has called for it to be under 5 old guys and each old guy needs to be judged on their own merits. But clearly some arent doing the job (or we wouldnt be last).

Forget the 30 year olds and look at how many are 25 and over. The answer is 13. That is why we need to keep the older guys. Luckily our club realise that. And con there are many players to delist. i could understand if there wasnt but there is. How about telling us who you would delist instead of whinging about keeping older players.

[Con Gorozidis]

Forget the 30 year olds and look at how many are 25 and over. The answer is 13. That is why we need to keep the older guys. Luckily our club realise that. And con there are many players to delist. i could understand if there wasnt but there is. How about telling us who you would delist instead of whinging about keeping older players.

there there. here you go. give this a cuddle.

[plugger66]

Forget the 30 year olds and look at how many are 25 and over. The answer is 13. That is why we need to keep the older guys. Luckily our club realise that. And con there are many players to delist. i could understand if there wasnt but there is. How about telling us who you would delist instead of whinging about keeping older players.

there there. here you go. give this a cuddle.

Strange response from an adult but expected from you. You do find it hard to discuss things sensibly Con. As I said no wonder you move around a lot.

[lewdogs]

Start of next year as it stands it will be:

32: Fisher, Riewoldt
31: Dempster, Jones, Montagna
30: Schneider
29:
28: Gilbert, Gwilt, Ray
27: Milera
26: Armitage, Dennis-Lane, Geary
25: Delaney, Shenton (r)

24: Dunell, Hickey, Holmes (r), Lee, Savage, Simpkin, Stanley, Steven
23: Roberton, Weller (r)
22: Bruce, Curren, Markworth, Newnes, Siposs
21: Longer, Minchington (r), Murdoch, Ross, Webster, Wright
20: Dunstan, Saunders, Pierce, White
19: Acres, Billings, Templeton (r)
18: Baker-Thomas (r)

Obviously a few more of those will be gone - Jones and Dennis-Lane most likely of the older guys. That leaves 5 players 30 or older. Maximum 13 out of 45 players will be 25 or older. Doesn't sound like a huge number of pensioners to me.

Looking at this list the standouts for delisting would be

Milera, Dunell, Simpkin, Murdoch, TDL

Players that have had consistent opportunities and consistently proven that they are not quite good enough.

[Dave McNamara]

Jones,Ross,TDL,Simpkin,Maister,Dunnel,Hayes.
I think we will trade our first pick for 2 picks inside the top 25.
And don't be surprised if they offer a late draft pick for Aaron Black.

So, seven out.

That means Minch and the Panther will have to be upgraded - 2.
I'd think that Weller as our number one tagger also has to be upgraded - 1.
Araon Black - 1.
Two top 25 picks (hope it's a very even draft) - 2.
So assuming Eli stays on the rookie list a bit longer... that's 6 in.

Ok, that would mean only the two top 25 draft picks and one other player from the draft.

That's not enough IMHO. Must be more changes to come Tony...?


Disappointed if we lose Ross, unless he wants out.
Disappointed if we do not lose Tezza.
(Didn't realise that he'll go into next season as a 27 year old. Come on, there ain't going to be any upside from here from Tez. Why would we keep him over Dunnell or Simpkin?)

[chook23]

Jones,Ross,TDL,Simpkin,Maister,Dunnel,Hayes.
I think we will trade our first pick for 2 picks inside the top 25.
And don't be surprised if they offer a late draft pick for Aaron Black.

So, seven out.

That means Minch and the Panther will have to be upgraded - 2.
I'd think that Weller as our number one tagger also has to be upgraded - 1.
Araon Black - 1.
Two top 25 picks (hope it's a very even draft) - 2.
So assuming Eli stays on the rookie list a bit longer... that's 6 in.

Ok, that would mean only the two top 25 draft picks and one other player from the draft.

That's not enough IMHO. Must be more changes to come Tony...?


Disappointed if we lose Ross, unless he wants out.
Disappointed if we do not lose Tezza.
(Didn't realise that he'll go into next season as a 27 year old. Come on, there ain't going to be any upside from here from Tez. Why would we keep him over Dunnell or Simpkin?)

IF IT HAPPENS it would give us 3 picks inside 25.........2 for our 1st pick plus our remainining 2nd round which should be inside 25.........

plus why would tony be spreading this and mention the players now!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave McNamara]

Jones,Ross,TDL,Simpkin,Maister,Dunnel,Hayes.
I think we will trade our first pick for 2 picks inside the top 25.
And don't be surprised if they offer a late draft pick for Aaron Black.

So, seven out.

That means Minch and the Panther will have to be upgraded - 2.
I'd think that Weller as our number one tagger also has to be upgraded - 1.
Araon Black - 1.
Two top 25 picks (hope it's a very even draft) - 2.
So assuming Eli stays on the rookie list a bit longer... that's 6 in.

Ok, then that would mean only the two top 25 draft picks plus one other player from the draft.

That's not enough IMHO. Must be more changes to come Tony...?


Disappointed if we lose Ross, unless he wants out.
Disappointed if we do not lose Tezza.
(Didn't realise that he'll go into next season as a 27 year old. Come on, there ain't going to be any upside from here from Tez. Why would we keep him over Dunnell or Simpkin?)

IF IT HAPPENS it would give us 3 picks inside 25.........2 for our 1st pick plus our remainining 2nd round which should be inside 25.........

plus why would tony be spreading this and mention the players now!!!!!!!!!!

Good pick-up Chook.

So that would then be three top 25 picks plus Arron Black as newbies to the club (that includes both the main and rookie lists).

Still not enough new blood IMHO.

Maybe we have some real whizz-bang you-beaut international rookies lined up...?


As for mentioning the players now... not sure...?

Seb was the only surprise, so maybe Seb wants out..., and maybe we are trying to get Arron B a payrise...?

[dragit]

I'll be very surprised if minchington is upgraded, surely not?

Would have to be playing every week at the moment if he's any good...

[bergholt]

Following up on this, here's what I think the list could look like next year (ignoring contracts):

32: Fisher, Riewoldt
31: Dempster, Montagna
30:
29:
28: Gilbert, Gwilt, Ray
27:
26: Armitage, Geary
25: Delaney, Shenton
24: Hickey, Holmes (r), Lee, Savage, Simpkin, Stanley, Steven
23: Roberton, Weller
22: Bruce, Curren, Markworth, Newnes, Siposs
21: Longer, Murdoch, Ross, Webster, Wright
20: Dunstan, Saunders, Pierce, White
19: Acres, Billings, new player, new player, Templeton (r)
18: new player, new player, new player, new rookie, new rookie, Baker-Thomas (r)

Removed: Hayes, Jones, Schneider, Maister, Milera, Dennis-Lane, Dunell, Minchington (r)
Upgraded: Shenton, Weller

New Players: five on the main list, three rookies.

Leaves only seven players older than Armo's 26 years old. Maybe eight if we pick up Scott Clouston who turns 28 in Feb. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. If it was Aaron Black, on the other hand, he slots in to the 24 year old group.

25 players 22 years old or younger. That's a solid base to find a future core in.

Also notable is that we cut four small forwards. Maybe from a "balance" point of view one of them will stay, that might be Milera or Schneider. Almost certainly whoever that is they'll go next year.

[dragit]

Like your thoughts bergs... Though I think terry is contracted so should be around another year.

And you've forgotten about Jeremy Cameron.

[SaintPav]

Very cluey North supporter at work who knows a bit about footy would love us to take Aaron Black.

That's not a good sign.

We might as well keep developing Stanley, Lee, Siposs and Whtie and pick up a young player in the draft if that is the case.

[Con Gorozidis]

if we can just keep the Delorean ticking over and the list in tact we can maybe go back to 2010 and correct that bounce.

[Con Gorozidis]

Forget the 30 year olds and look at how many are 25 and over. The answer is 13. That is why we need to keep the older guys. Luckily our club realise that. And con there are many players to delist. i could understand if there wasnt but there is. How about telling us who you would delist instead of whinging about keeping older players.

there there. here you go. give this a cuddle.

Strange response from an adult but expected from you. You do find it hard to discuss things sensibly Con. As I said no wonder you move around a lot.

hahah yes . Do you really want to go there?? Would you care to elaborate? Do tell!

[saintly]

Jones,Ross,TDL,Simpkin,Maister,Dunnel,Hayes.
I think we will trade our first pick for 2 picks inside the top 25.
And don't be surprised if they offer a late draft pick for Aaron Black.

I'd like Aaron Black,

but I think they should keep going with Ross. Give him a 1 year extension.

[saintly]

Jones,Ross,TDL,Simpkin,Maister,Dunnel,Hayes.
I think we will trade our first pick for 2 picks inside the top 25.
And don't be surprised if they offer a late draft pick for Aaron Black.

I'd like Aaron Black,

but I think they should keep going with Ross. Give him a 1 year extension.

I remember thinking I was happy about us taking TDL. so what do I know.

[Old Mate]

Jones,Ross,TDL,Simpkin,Maister,Dunnel,Hayes.
I think we will trade our first pick for 2 picks inside the top 25.
And don't be surprised if they offer a late draft pick for Aaron Black.

I very much doubt the club will get rid of Ross with Lenny retiring. And Ross and Simpkin are contracted players so unless they trade the two I think they will stay on the list. The club copped criticism from the AFLPA when they delisted a contracted Winmar and with Finess at the club I can't see it happening again.

I do suspect The Pelican will endeavour to turn over another 8 players on the list.

Retire:
Jones, Lenny, Maister and Schnieder

Delist:
Dunell and TDL

Trade:
A further 2 players

A question mark over Fisher. The club will make the call whether they believe his body will hold up. Along with Schnieder I think his fitness will be heavily scrutinised.

Ideally the club trade contracted players such as Simpkin, Siposs and Milera to add more spots on the list. Not sure who would take them though. Ross safe unless The Pelican gets a very good offer.

[wally]

I dont think Milera fits our side,but would suit some others. I'd be looking to trade him,on his own not worth much but may be the steak knives
in a deal. Was it true he wanted to return to SA last year?