SideshowMilne wrote:To be fair I reckon his brief at St Kilda and Freo was 'just bloody win the thing'. Yes it came at a huge 'list' expense but both clubs just need/want to win 1 and go back to being carp and everyone's ok. If he tries to evolve freo and doesn't get there, he's failed more.
Exactly.
As I see things:
Yes as noted his brief was to win the GF and to win it now.
1/ Hate the way Lyon left. Has left a sour taste.
2/ Yes he is a "grumpy" guy
3/ He is a brilliant coach (Have a listen to his players say about him, and in particular when they discuss all their coaches. Have a listen what neutral people who really know their football say about him as a coach)
4/
Most StKilda fans IMO overate how good the list was that he took over. If was a good list, but not a great list. Too many fans were mesmerised by the quality of our top 5 or so players were, and ignore how bad our bottom third were, and that our middle third was not that flash either. They also ignore how shallow our depth was outside of the 22, and rail on about not playing more talented youth, when there was really very little to play. I mean by comparison have a look at the Swans, or Hawks 22s, this year which both bristle with talent. The Swans have for example Gary Rohan FFS playing out of a back pocket!!!! That is ow deep their talent is.
5/
He developed a game plan that overcame our list weaknesses, of which their were many. IMO we would never have played off in Grand Finals with his input. I very much doubt that any other coached would have done as well or better.
6/
The not playing youth aspect is basically a myth as there was basically no quality youth to play. Howard, Sweeney etc etc..
We had the AFL's worst recruiting of young players in the draft for GT's later years and Lyon's tenure. This was not either coaches fault. They were victims. Fans rail on about not playing say Armo (one of our few early picks available to Lyon). Now that he is mature and playing regularly is he a superstar? No, he is good average hard working mid, and yet he has been one of the very small number of kids drafted to survive. Ben another low pick. Taken by Hawthorn now, but a rookie elevation is now preferred by them.
We are now where we are in the main due to this abysmal recruiting black hole (accelerated by Pelchen's strategy to let good players go to get more youth to rebuild more quickly <we hope this works!!>
6/ He has improved Freo. He may not win a GF with them either, but they are clearly a better team. Yes he secured a good list, rather than a bottom four list. But they were not a best list in the competition either. Like St Kilda, he has had to try and win a GF with a good list, rather than a great list.
7/ Geelong: Hats off to them, their recruiting head guy is amazing (we hired his off-sider, but the apprentice was a dud). Yes they have blended in youth, BUT they have had regular very good youth to blend in. Interesting to note too that in recent years that they have turned more and more to recycling players from other clubs. McKernan, Rivers.....
8/ Hawks: Superb recruiting as well. Both kids, and their recruits from other clubs have in the main been inspired such as Burgoyne, Guerra, Hale (Ben is an exception!). Clarkson like Lyon, very grumpy, but a great coach and very innovative on game plans.
9/ Swans. Their drafting and trading department top notch too
(anyone else starting to see a connection here with teams and GF success!!!) But as noted by P66 in this thread their salary cap advantageis clearly unfair. What other team could have secured both Tippet and Buddy in a list already bursting with talent? So they have topped up some very good drafting of kids , and trading in some superb picks from over clubs that were under-performing (Kennedy, LRT etc) with some star players that other clubs could not afford.
10/ Pies. Have had mega-bucks to through at every player advantage and and in locating talent. But has anyone else noted that following their flag against us in a year where it was officially noted that players had produced positive samples, but within limits, but where drug-testing was ramped up in later years that they have gone backwards? Coincidence? I think not.
11/ Freo: Who thinks that their drafting of kids was as good as Swans/Cats/Hawks? And for many years their trades were held up to ridicule.
Personally with Lyon, I believe that many St Kilda fans express their huge disappointment of not winning a flag unfairly by now making Lyon the bogey man. That he is naturally terse, just makes it all the easier.
It burns in my gut too that we did not win at least one flag. But personally my belief is that without Lyon we would never have made the Grand Final in either year.
He left us poorly, but equally our board stuffed around wit his contract that year with long drawn out negotiations which opened the door to Freo to pounce.
But he also left us with a period in which other teams, and fans feared and respected us. In all of my time of following the Saints I have never experienced that before. Never. 97 came close.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
