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Bunk_Moreland wrote:Reported on the Saints forum at BF that Saints are into Liam Jones
Is it possible that they are trying to do something similar to last years effort where we let McEvoy go because we knew we could replace him with Longer and then come out in front on all the draft picks swaps on the way through?
Just wondering (if there's any truth in it) if they may be looking at offloading Stanley and picking up Jones as a stright swap and trying to come out in front at the end on the draft pick side of things??
The problem with that is Jones is no good and he cant ruck so who is the second ruckman?
No idea on Jones qualities as a ruckman - hoping there's no truth based on what I've seen of him, just asking the question. Don't know that Stanley has set the world on fire to date either....
The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
Bunk_Moreland wrote:Reported on the Saints forum at BF that Saints are into Liam Jones
Is it possible that they are trying to do something similar to last years effort where we let McEvoy go because we knew we could replace him with Longer and then come out in front on all the draft picks swaps on the way through?
Just wondering (if there's any truth in it) if they may be looking at offloading Stanley and picking up Jones as a stright swap and trying to come out in front at the end on the draft pick side of things??
The problem with that is Jones is no good and he cant ruck so who is the second ruckman?
No idea on Jones qualities as a ruckman - hoping there's no truth based on what I've seen of him, just asking the question. Don't know that Stanley has set the world on fire to date either....
He can't ruck but is quick and mobile for his height. I can only imagine they think he could possibly become another Brian Lake and put bruce Forward? Jones is one of those guys who don't seem to be as good as they should be. He has moments where he looks likely but doesn't get there.
Bunk_Moreland wrote:Reported on the Saints forum at BF that Saints are into Liam Jones
Is it possible that they are trying to do something similar to last years effort where we let McEvoy go because we knew we could replace him with Longer and then come out in front on all the draft picks swaps on the way through?
Just wondering (if there's any truth in it) if they may be looking at offloading Stanley and picking up Jones as a stright swap and trying to come out in front at the end on the draft pick side of things??
The problem with that is Jones is no good and he cant ruck so who is the second ruckman?
No idea on Jones qualities as a ruckman - hoping there's no truth based on what I've seen of him, just asking the question. Don't know that Stanley has set the world on fire to date either....
He hasn't but he rucks. Jones doesn't and we have no other obvious second ruckman.
Bunk_Moreland wrote:Reported on the Saints forum at BF that Saints are into Liam Jones
Is it possible that they are trying to do something similar to last years effort where we let McEvoy go because we knew we could replace him with Longer and then come out in front on all the draft picks swaps on the way through?
Just wondering (if there's any truth in it) if they may be looking at offloading Stanley and picking up Jones as a stright swap and trying to come out in front at the end on the draft pick side of things??
The problem with that is Jones is no good and he cant ruck so who is the second ruckman?
No idea on Jones qualities as a ruckman - hoping there's no truth based on what I've seen of him, just asking the question. Don't know that Stanley has set the world on fire to date either....
He hasn't but he rucks. Jones doesn't and we have no other obvious second ruckman.
OK - so we've pissed on that particular campfire. If that isn't the strategy, why the hell are we looking at him? Hope there's no truth to it......
The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
Bunk_Moreland wrote:Reported on the Saints forum at BF that Saints are into Liam Jones
Is it possible that they are trying to do something similar to last years effort where we let McEvoy go because we knew we could replace him with Longer and then come out in front on all the draft picks swaps on the way through?
Just wondering (if there's any truth in it) if they may be looking at offloading Stanley and picking up Jones as a stright swap and trying to come out in front at the end on the draft pick side of things??
The problem with that is Jones is no good and he cant ruck so who is the second ruckman?
No idea on Jones qualities as a ruckman - hoping there's no truth based on what I've seen of him, just asking the question. Don't know that Stanley has set the world on fire to date either....
He hasn't but he rucks. Jones doesn't and we have no other obvious second ruckman.
He's really a KPF who doesn't get much of the ball ATM. He's probably on his last chance if he can't get a game next year. Rhys is actually not that bad but some still bag him anyway. I can see him being another Westhoff in the future.
The Pelican is on record saying he wants 3 picks in the top 20. Our 2nd pick is pick 21 (maybe 22 after Frawley compensation) any ideas how we will achieve the other 2 picks inside 20? What would we have to give up?
SaintWodonga wrote:The Pelican is on record saying he wants 3 picks in the top 20. Our 2nd pick is pick 21 (maybe 22 after Frawley compensation) any ideas how we will achieve the other 2 picks inside 20? What would we have to give up?
There's only two scenarios.
1. Trade a player, likely Armo or Joey IMO; or
2. Trade pick 1 for multiple picks.
SaintWodonga wrote:The Pelican is on record saying he wants 3 picks in the top 20. Our 2nd pick is pick 21 (maybe 22 after Frawley compensation) any ideas how we will achieve the other 2 picks inside 20? What would we have to give up?
There's only two scenarios.
1. Trade a player, likely Armo or Joey IMO; or
2. Trade pick 1 for multiple picks.
My money is on Armo being traded.
Armo had his best season and is the inside mid we need at the age which is in short supply
SaintWodonga wrote:The Pelican is on record saying he wants 3 picks in the top 20. Our 2nd pick is pick 21 (maybe 22 after Frawley compensation) any ideas how we will achieve the other 2 picks inside 20? What would we have to give up?
There's only two scenarios.
1. Trade a player, likely Armo or Joey IMO; or
2. Trade pick 1 for multiple picks.
My money is on Armo being traded.
Armo had his best season and is the inside mid we need at the age which is in short supply
On bigfooty they said John Ralph had said we are taking Petracca and trading to get a pick in the teens and taking another big bodied mid. How we trade for a pick in the teens I don't know. Armo, Gilbert, Hickey and possibly if someone really wanted Geary are the only on their own that would have any value and really only Armo would be an easy deal to do. Perhaps a deal with Montagna and Gilbert or something like that would tempt a team like Freo, North or Richmond who would increase their depth while going hard at a rise up the finals ladder from this year.
We all obsess over draft picks and pick 1 and top 20 picks.
But reality check time. The two best young players in the comp are Parker (pick 40) and Gray (pick 55).
I still need someone to tell me how a guy who kicks 56 goals in TAC cup drops to pick 55? Can someone explain this to me. I'm honestly mystified. That means 54 kids are picked before him .
All 18 clubs have professional recruiters. Seems to me like they are plagued by group think unless anyone else can provide me with a logical alternative explanation.
Players picked ahead of Gray include Brad Howard and Kyle Riemers and other luminaries like:
Mark Austin
Chris Schmidt
Clint Benjamin
Brock O'Brien
Kernal75 wrote:Heard a whisper (Damien Barrett) that GWS were thinking about packaging up Jaksch, O'Rouke. If they were prepared to do this would we consider giving them pick 1 and something else in return. I think they'd want a lot more for that deal but could we be tempted to broker a deal!?
It just shows what a shithead Barrett is. Trade two guys that can't get a game in a bottom 3 side for the number one pick. What a f*** wit!
Con Gorozidis wrote:We all obsess over draft picks and pick 1 and top 20 picks.
But reality check time. The two best young players in the comp are Parker (pick 40) and Gray (pick 55).
I still need someone to tell me how a guy who kicks 56 goals in TAC cup drops to pick 55? Can someone explain this to me. I'm honestly mystified. That means 54 kids are picked before him .
All 18 clubs have professional recruiters. Seems to me like they are plagued by group think unless anyone else can provide me with a logical alternative explanation.
Players picked ahead of Gray include Brad Howard and Kyle Riemers and other luminaries like:
Mark Austin
Chris Schmidt
Clint Benjamin
Brock O'Brien
and the list goes on and on and on
You make a great point, Con. From first hand experience, most of the so called recruiters have NFI. Groupthink describes it perfectly. I swear that most of them just read what is sprouted in the media, then take a stab at the dartboard.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
Every draft has it's good that slip down the list. I'm sure in 5 years they will be asking why no one picked up Eli in the draft. Also, didn't Eddie Betts drop through the draft and join carlton via Pre-season or Rookie list?
Andreous wrote:Every draft has it's good that slip down the list. I'm sure in 5 years they will be asking why no one picked up Eli in the draft. Also, didn't Eddie Betts drop through the draft and join carlton via Pre-season or Rookie list?
Agree. Im not saying its easy.
But 56 goals in the TAC cup is still 56 goals.
Surely that makes him top 20? What were the other 54 blokes doing better than kicking 56 goals?
I mean of course there will be 'sliders' and blokes who improve more than anticipated and smokies from the country etc. But it wasnt like Gray was a secret. Hed kicked bloody 56 goals! I mean it was out there. It was on the board for all to see. He was dominating the best junior comp in the land and was putting it on the scoreboard. Clearly he was an outstanding player for his age.
I think the recruiters often outsmart themselves trying to pick out an 'athlete' and ignoring the bloke who is actually just a bloody good footballer.
Last edited by Con Gorozidis on Sun 21 Sep 2014 1:19am, edited 1 time in total.
Con Gorozidis wrote:We all obsess over draft picks and pick 1 and top 20 picks.
But reality check time. The two best young players in the comp are Parker (pick 40) and Gray (pick 55).
I still need someone to tell me how a guy who kicks 56 goals in TAC cup drops to pick 55? Can someone explain this to me. I'm honestly mystified. That means 54 kids are picked before him .
All 18 clubs have professional recruiters. Seems to me like they are plagued by group think unless anyone else can provide me with a logical alternative explanation.
Players picked ahead of Gray include Brad Howard and Kyle Riemers and other luminaries like:
Mark Austin
Chris Schmidt
Clint Benjamin
Brock O'Brien
and the list goes on and on and on
Agree Con, however without any figures to back it up, I'm sure the Top 20 picks have played more games than picks 41 to 60 but those examples are valid points on recruiters doing that bit extra to understand and identify players of value, more than perhaps conventional and popular opinion.
I know for a fact St Kilda (Lyon) was given a fair insight into the benefits of Nick Smith (same draft year as Gray, GF team mates at Oakleigh). Smith slipped through the National Draft. St Kilda selected Jones with their first rookie pick and Sydney grabbed Smith with their next selection.
Zed wrote:Which senior player has decent trade value - yet is easiest to replace ??
Joey.
That would be the guy that everyone has been saying for most of the year "is playing like he is leaving at the end of the year".......
Hasn't that been happening for 3 years now?
Could also say "is playing with a fractured leg"
Armo has a lot more value than Joey, I reckon they will be seriously thinking about him.
I think it has to be Armo if we are looking at trading out a player with currency! But this is a tough call because Richo praised him big time on multiple times throughout the year...to offload him would be a real shock...but it might just have to happen. Armo's what, 26 I think, another couple of years and his currency would diminish and hopefully he'd be getting squeezed out anyway. The jury is still out on his absolute potential, could become A grade, or could be another Big Boy, solid B grader, no more...personally I don't know which way he'll go. But if we're serious about stocking up on draft talent, he'd be my pick for being shopped around if I were a betting man.
Went to the Sanfl grand final today. Ports John Butcher is the worst kick I have ever seen at senior level. Was clearly beaten today by a Sanfl level CHB. Belongs in the Ammos.
Life is never more fun than when you're the underdog competing against the giants.
Zed wrote:Which senior player has decent trade value - yet is easiest to replace ??
Joey.
That would be the guy that everyone has been saying for most of the year "is playing like he is leaving at the end of the year".......
Hasn't that been happening for 3 years now?
Could also say "is playing with a fractured leg"
Armo has a lot more value than Joey, I reckon they will be seriously thinking about him.
I think it has to be Armo if we are looking at trading out a player with currency! But this is a tough call because Richo praised him big time on multiple times throughout the year...to offload him would be a real shock...but it might just have to happen. Armo's what, 26 I think, another couple of years and his currency would diminish and hopefully he'd be getting squeezed out anyway. The jury is still out on his absolute potential, could become A grade, or could be another Big Boy, solid B grader, no more...personally I don't know which way he'll go. But if we're serious about stocking up on draft talent, he'd be my pick for being shopped around if I were a betting man.
It has become an annual tradition to say we are trading Armo to a QLD side. So ill go along with it. What picks do GC have out of interest?
