Is The Pelican Weird Or What?

[karnaby]

We are not in any position to pick another Brad Howard tho, so our recruiters had to be as thorough as possible to avoid a player bombing out, we could ill afford that!

[asiu]

yes but to your point - if midefielders impact early then given where we are now does it not make sense to draft the KPPs we need as they take more time?

Seems logical to me..?

That.

[gringo]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

And of course the players have to still be there. Langford and Laverde for Essendon, Lever for Adelaide, Goddard for St Kilda. Even the great haul that many think Melbourne picked up. The sliders have to be there at the time of the pick in order to be selected.

Really great recruiting is picking up kids that no one really rated that highly in the lead up to the Draft and seeing them turn into really good/great players. And that phenomenon usually takes a bit of time to reveal itself.

Very true...every pick is a gamble and some for what ever reason won't make it. Morabito, Kruezer and X Clarke for example. Others were over looked for no good reason and end up guns from nowhere. If Mc cartin becomes a gun they are the best recruiters ever, if he duds out we will still be talking about how good some guy taken at pick 28 was and we overlooked him with pick 1.

Anyway I'm happy we didn't get Petracca over Mc Cartin after seeing him blow up at training. I thought he'd had a running coach and he was out on his feet.

[White Winmar]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

And of course the players have to still be there. Langford and Laverde for Essendon, Lever for Adelaide, Goddard for St Kilda. Even the great haul that many think Melbourne picked up. The sliders have to be there at the time of the pick in order to be selected.

Really great recruiting is picking up kids that no one really rated that highly in the lead up to the Draft and seeing them turn into really good/great players. And that phenomenon usually takes a bit of time to reveal itself.

Indeed. That's why I'm confident about pics 21 and 22, and 18 and 19 last year. They will be the unexpected guns. Have to agree Doc, it'll be a while before we know, but so far, I think we're tracking well.

[aaron82]

Jury still out on how we performed in the draft.
We should have taken Petracca in a lot of people's opinion including mine and there was a reason Goddard slid to 21, he is no world beater.
We needed to add midfielders and quality ones and in both drafts have added one midfielder in McKenzie, who is a more a back flanker sweeper type.
Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.
We won the inside 50 count 2-20 this year and more possessions in s game we were 4-18.
Doesn't matter who is in the forward line with those numbers.
Most teams have 8-12 gun mids.
We have 1 with a few emerging still.
I didn't think we were strategically brilliant in this draft either.

You make some interesting points.

The general consensus among expert commentators is that the Saints did well from the draft. We had a tough call to make on pick 1. It was line ball between McCartin and Petracca and in the end we opted for what the club hopes will be a worthy successor to Roo.

But I agree with you.

If it was my decision to make, I would have taken Petracca over McCartin. No question. Petracca was clearly the best player in the draft.

He is, i believe a once in a generation midfielder and the way the modern game of footy is played they are the engine room for any club serious about winning a premiership.

So no use having a gun forward if we have no one capable of winning the contested ball and kicking it to them. And as you point out we were smashed in that department in season 2014.

But opinions are like rear ends. Everyone's got one. So while I'm on a roll let me say I would also have taken Reece McKenzie and Caleb Daniel. But that's me.

And it's not to say I won't be getting behind the club and the decisions it has made. Paddy McCartin is a fine young man. He has a good attitude. He has a vice like marking grip on the footy. He's a good kick for goal. And his leading patterns are smart.

But to my knowledge he never kicked 10 goals in a TAC match this year. He played against the same defenders Reece McKenzie came up against.

Am I suggesting Mckenzie is a better forward than McCartin? In the view of footy brains more expert than mine, I would be foolish and wrong to do so.

Paddy McCartin is a work in progress just like Reece McKenzie. It remains to be seen who will end up having the greater impact in the AFL.

History shows that pick 1 is no guarantee you will make the grade.

People who know the draft backwards and the players who were available in it, do say the club got it right with their choices, given our needs.

I just hope they got it right. But I can't be any more certain than that.

Absolutely agree with the vast majority of what you are saying Damien. Personally I would have taken Petracca but I'm warming to McCartin, when he has his body to AFL fitness standards he will most likely be elite. Has a bit of the Jono Brown about him in his style of leadership in my view.

As for Reece McKenzie there is a risk attached to him hence why he slid to 77 and the tigers

[Pleasing]

Spinner got it 100% right it is a Trade and Draft analysis our trade period was a C+ B- at best I am sure Pelchin expected to get more going into trade week/month not just JOR and Jaksch but our stated aim was to get multiple first round picks which we only barely get a pass for. Think he was pretty complimentary about our Drafting.

Brisbane get an A for picking up Beams and Christensen more so than their draftees

No need to bash Pelchin he did an important job setting up the rebuild and no doubt wore much of the blame for some controversial decisions like Goddard - Dal Santo and Watters. He was brought in to fix things and at least from the outside appears to have done a pretty good job but like most change agents he was not meant to be there for the long term.

[saintsRrising]

Like many I would have preferred Petracca. However I am not unhappy with McCartin. I very much like the obvious chemistry between McCartin and Goddard.
After that given who was available I am comfortable with the picks we took.

I prefer Lonie to Daniel.

The Club is clearly most concerned about our team in 2 or more years, and not at all about next year except in having enough old talent still their to mentor, develop and prevent too many 100 point thrashings.

We have many mids, but not enough quality mids.

My guess is that Club probably believes:

> that we will be say bottom 4 for at least 2 more years = 4 lowish picks, and 2 picks that will be in the zone to get "guns".
> that they will have the salary cap room to land a FA Mid or two of star quality. Conversely after the size of the $$$ deal that Boyd landed they may have been feeling apprehensive about landing a star key forward as a FA and how much that could cause problems going forward by having to devote so much of your cap to just one player..

As a team rebuild virtually all bases now seem to be covered, except the "gun" midfield aspect. Unfortunately the midfield is key to any team being a premiership contender.

Our last two drafts I believe have been excellent. We need to keep this going. But from now on we do very much need to start seeing some midfield class being secured.

[jaxons]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

[Old Mate]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

Is there any truth that Petracca tested in his psych and interviewed extremely poorly?

[stinger]

Spinner got it 100% right it is a Trade and Draft analysis our trade period was a C+ B- at best I am sure Pelchin expected to get more going into trade week/month not just JOR and Jaksch but our stated aim was to get multiple first round picks which we only barely get a pass for. Think he was pretty complimentary about our Drafting.

Brisbane get an A for picking up Beams and Christensen more so than their draftees

No need to bash Pelchin he did an important job setting up the rebuild and no doubt wore much of the blame for some controversial decisions like Goddard - Dal Santo and Watters. He was brought in to fix things and at least from the outside appears to have done a pretty good job but like most change agents he was not meant to be there for the long term.

unly has himself to blame for not being at seaford for the long haul

[stinger]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

[plugger66]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

He never worked for us.

[Wayne42]

I think we went for KPP's in this 2014 draft because, by all reports, the 2015 crop is light on for quality talls.

The 2015 draft could be the one the Saints start to load up on quality mids.

[SaintPav]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

He never worked for us.

Who? Jacksons or Pelican?

[Wayne42]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

He never worked for us.

Who? Jacksons or Pelican?

neither, pelcham never worked for the Saints

[saintsRrising]

I think we went for KPP's in this 2014 draft because, by all reports, the 2015 crop is light on for quality talls.
.

I really hope this is not the reason as things can change a lot in a year.

A year ago:

- Goddard was touted as a possible No 1. He went at 21.
- Petracca was playing as a forward. He converted to a mid.

[Spinner]

Spinner got it 100% right it is a Trade and Draft analysis our trade period was a C+ B- at best I am sure Pelchin expected to get more going into trade week/month not just JOR and Jaksch but our stated aim was to get multiple first round picks which we only barely get a pass for. Think he was pretty complimentary about our Drafting.

Brisbane get an A for picking up Beams and Christensen more so than their draftees

No need to bash Pelchin he did an important job setting up the rebuild and no doubt wore much of the blame for some controversial decisions like Goddard - Dal Santo and Watters. He was brought in to fix things and at least from the outside appears to have done a pretty good job but like most change agents he was not meant to be there for the long term.

Spot on.

[saintsRrising]

The key point of our drafting was not that we did better than everyone else, but rather that we did not do very badly.

We are in the hole that we are in, because or drafting was so dismal over so many years. We have improved drastically.

However to expect to do what we did last year every year is unrealistic, as last year the Hawks were willing to pay overs for Ben. We made the most of that opportunity, but that type of deal is not likely to happen often.

Yes the Lions did well, but they had the blind luck to have Beams want to be nearer his sick Dad, and for Christensen to be part of a "situation" at the Cats whereby they were happy to facilitate him going for less than his worth. Lady Luck put aces in their hand.Though after the rotten luck the Lions had the previous years with younger players wanting out enmasse it balanced out.

So the if you rate actual their drafting/trading ability then the Lions was not as stellar as of you just look at the overall ins and outs.

[jaxons]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

Ask Matt Finnis.

[cwrcyn]

Well, I think we now know who Jaxon's contact within the club was.

Petracca may well turn out to be a superstar. Pinning your premiership hopes on a single superstar has never worked for us, and we've had a few. It's about building a really good football team which is balanced and has quality depth beyond the 17th or 18th best player. Building a team around key position players is a smart move. Without our recruitment of Koschitzke, Riewoldt, Maguire, and Gehrig in the early noughties, we would not have made that dramatic rise from 2001 to 2004. Not following this type of plan cost the Bulldogs in the past decade, and now, in desperation they have spent a king's ransom on a young key forward when they could have had Peter Wright (who is likely to be just as good) for nothing. They have seen the error of their ways but have paid a hefty price to rectify the situation.

So, McCartin may not have been the best player in the draft, but he was close. Key forwards are damn hard to find. How many have we successfully recruited since 2000? Look though the other clubs and you'll see that they are rare. There are midfielders everywhere. Fyffe was pick 20, Simon Black was pick 31. Sam Mitchell was pick 36, Leigh Montagna was pick 38, Lenny Hayes was pick 10, Robbie Gray pick 55, And that's just a very small sample. Try to find quality key forwards who were selected in that range (pick 10 or later) in the past decade. There weren't many....J.Riewoldt, Tippett, Mayne, Dawes, and Darling are the only ones I could find who were not gift father and son selections (who would have gone top 3). I could probably find at least 40 midfielders in comparison.

There will be ample opportunity to find quality mids in the next two drafts with picks guaranteed to be in the top 3 or 4. Sure, we're in for some pain in 2015 and 2016, but impatience has cost this club many times and I'd rather put up with a few years of struggling on field if ultimately we put the right type of playing list together.

[stinger]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

Ask Matt Finnis.

i know the reasons...obviously you don't ...and why would you as a coffee boy to some dj

[stinger]

Well, I think we now know who Jaxon's contact within the club was.

Petracca may well turn out to be a superstar. Pinning your premiership hopes on a single superstar has never worked for us, and we've had a few. It's about building a really good football team which is balanced and has quality depth beyond the 17th or 18th best player. Building a team around key position players is a smart move. Without our recruitment of Koschitzke, Riewoldt, Maguire, and Gehrig in the early noughties, we would not have made that dramatic rise from 2001 to 2004. Not following this type of plan cost the Bulldogs in the past decade, and now, in desperation they have spent a king's ransom on a young key forward when they could have had Peter Wright (who is likely to be just as good) for nothing. They have seen the error of their ways but have paid a hefty price to rectify the situation.

So, McCartin may not have been the best player in the draft, but he was close. Key forwards are damn hard to find. How many have we successfully recruited since 2000? Look though the other clubs and you'll see that they are rare. There are midfielders everywhere. Fyffe was pick 20, Simon Black was pick 31. Sam Mitchell was pick 36, Leigh Montagna was pick 38, Lenny Hayes was pick 10, Robbie Gray pick 55, And that's just a very small sample. Try to find quality key forwards who were selected in that range (pick 10 or later) in the past decade. There weren't many....J.Riewoldt, Tippett, Mayne, Dawes, and Darling are the only ones I could find who were not gift father and son selections (who would have gone top 3). I could probably find at least 40 midfielders in comparison.

There will be ample opportunity to find quality mids in the next two drafts with picks guaranteed to be in the top 3 or 4. Sure, we're in for some pain in 2015 and 2016, but impatience has cost this club many times and I'd rather put up with a few years of struggling on field if ultimately we put the right type of playing list together.

excellent post

[matrix]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

Ask Matt Finnis.

i know the reasons...obviously you don't ...and why would you as a coffee boy to some dj

so why dont YOU post the reasons then
no point calling someone out to give up the reason, but say you know yourself...and then keep silent

cough it up if you think you know the answer

[evertonfc]

Chances are we're going to finish bottom five next year, if we're honest.

That means we'll probably get access to two top midfielders inside the first 25 picks. And if we lose Jack Steven to free agency, we could have two top-five picks (not saying we want to lose him, but the compensation might be rather good).

I wish we had taken Petracca, who could be the next Michael Voss. However, McCartin does loom as though he'll be a fine player, with a good character, and yes, talls are hard to find. We've done well enough to tie up some key posts.

We certainly need to aggressively hit the next draft for elite midfielders. As it stands, we're well down in that area.

[stinger]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

One thing I can tell you is Chris wanted Petracca and still thinks we should have taken him.

if you know so much..tell why pelcham really got the flick..

Ask Matt Finnis.

i know the reasons...obviously you don't ...and why would you as a coffee boy to some dj

so why dont YOU post the reasons then
no point calling someone out to give up the reason, but say you know yourself...and then keep silent

cough it up if you think you know the answer

no stuff the lot of you..i owe you nothing.....i was told in confidence...and that's the way it will remain...don't try any of your school yard bulling tactics on me.....