Big Boy McEvoy

[saintbob]

Geez the Hawks have changed Big Boy's body shape, he was a huge when he left us now he's a lean running machine.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Opposition forum.

[CURLY]

All players are slimmer over the last year or two.

[plugger66]

All players are slimmer over the last year or two.

Agreed. The days of huge bodies are over at the moment. It may turn but even Rooy said he has lost a bit.

[skeptic]

I think as a team we tend to struggle a lot with developing players... ppl are quick to point the finger at recruitment but you look at McEvoy as an example...

He was either going to be a big bulky, contested mark tacking monster, bashing into packs etc
Or a lean running machine, blocking holes, linking up etc

The Hawks seem to prefer option B... we seemed to pick half and half and he stagnated something shocking

[Bunk_Moreland]

Hawks making our 100 point loss look not too bad at the moment

[saintjake]

I'd much prefer Savage and Dunstan

[CURLY]

If McEvoy played like this yesterday for us we'd want him dropped.

[saintsRrising]

I'd much prefer Savage and Dunstan

Me too.

But Big Ben is a genuinely nic guy and so I do not begrudge him his success and given the Rolls Roce nature of the Hawks at present he will have a lot of it.

[SuperDuper]

Also noticed that McEvoy played alongside Ceglar today.

Seems there are people on this forum claiming Longer and Hickey cant play in the same side, as though this cannot be done... often claiming that good teams no longer play 2 rucks

Well, it seems to me that Hawthorn crushed Geelong today, even with 2 genuine rucks in their team
Maybe some people can re-assess their opinions on that one?

[plugger66]

Also noticed that McEvoy played alongside Ceglar today.

Seems there are people on this forum claiming Longer and Hickey cant play in the same side, as though this cannot be done... often claiming that good teams no longer play 2 rucks

Well, it seems to me that Hawthorn crushed Geelong today, even with 2 genuine rucks in their team
Maybe some people can re-assess their opinions on that one?

Ben can and does go forward a bit. Also the Hawks have that much midfield depth they can get away with a ruckman on the bench a little longer. People on here maybe saying that we cant play 2 ruckmen but it seems our coaches are as well otherwise Hickey would have played yesterday.

[Goose is king]

I believe hickey and longer will both play this week.
It needs to be trialled and worst case it doesn't work and one gets subbed off

[remboy]

I still think this was a win-win trade. They got McEvoy and Hartung, we got Savage, Dunstan and Acres. I'm very comfortable with that, and that's not having a go at McEvoy at all.

[SuperDuper]

Hickey is pretty well on a par with McEvoy going forward.

All I am saying is that I have read some posts on here claiming that 2 rucks is just not done "in the modern game"
McEvoy is as much of a slow, genuine ruck as anyone... If hawks play 2 rucks, so can we...

So when people suggest Longer and Hicky both play, they cant be shot down as easily as some claim

[plugger66]

Hickey is pretty well on a par with McEvoy going forward.

All I am saying is that I have read some posts on here claiming that 2 rucks is just not done "in the modern game"
McEvoy is as much of a slow, genuine ruck as anyone... If hawks play 2 rucks, so can we...

So when people suggest Longer and Hicky both play, they cant be shot down as easily as some claim

Well you will probably get your wish this week and I hope it works but I think the Hawks could play 4 ruckmen and it wouldn't matter. If its the way to go then surely every club would play 2 genuine ruckmen and not many do including us so at the moment it can be shot down. Saying that I think they may do it this week and I wont like it but what does it matter what anyone likes. We have no say at all.

I actually think we may have won the game this week if Hickey played. But without Longer playing.

[SuperDuper]

Ideally, I think you are right Pluggs, in terms of the ideal set up being one ruck and someone who can genuinely play forward and ruck. But sometimes you need to play your best 22 and play to the strengths of the players you have, rather than chose a team based on teh players you wish you had. For the saints, maybe Hickey and Longer are in our best 22. For me, Hickey certainly is. And I agree with you he should have played this week and would have had an influence. Whether Longer should also play.. well I am not sure .. but maybe... Longer was not our worst this week

[darylcowie]

Re two rucks being played by us, Hickey is versatile enough to drift forward and have an impact, while also having an impact in the ruck and around the ground, Longer can only do the second of those three things.

That is why we can't play both of them in the same side.

Hickey with Bruce as relief (if in any doubt, check out his vertical leap when he took THAT mark) is our best option.

I still think we have shot ourselves in the foot a bit in the short term by getting rid of Stanley, because he was a better relief ruckman than Bruce and he could still play forward with some impact, unlike Longer!

If his body is healthy, Hickey could be a ten-year player for us, but I'm not so sure about Longer, healthy or otherwise.

Since this thread is about McEvoy, if he was still at the club and we also had Longer, at least we would have some tall timber to practice our goal kicking between!

[SainterK]

Skinny huh.

Hawks are so organised.

Recruit who they need, for a role, and then mould them.

They know the who why and how.

[saintsRrising]

Also noticed that McEvoy played alongside Ceglar today.

Seems there are people on this forum claiming Longer and Hickey cant play in the same side, as though this cannot be done... often claiming that good teams no Longer play 2 rucks

Well, it seems to me that Hawthorn crushed Geelong today, even with 2 genuine rucks in their team
Maybe some people can re-assess their opinions on that one?

You are not comparing like with like. Longer struggles to have any impact around the ground and is principally a pure tap-ruckman.

Whereas both McEvoy and Ceglar are principally followers who go well around the ground and not so good at the centre bounce. So it is pretty easy to play the two of them.

Also the Cats had Clark at FF who was a ruckman before he wasa key forward, and IMO is not as mobile as a true forward.

When we had Stanley I would have been very happy to play both Hickey and Stanly as the ruck dua.
Hickey looks capable around the ground. But Longer does not. So IMO playing both Longer and Hickey is not good as Longer resting forward is a liability. However I think we will probably see it a lot this year, and probably in our next game.

Back on the Hawks....their two rucks got 22 disposals and 28 HOs between them. So hardly great stats. Though Ben got 2 goals. The rest of their teams oozes so much class and talent that their rucks are largely irrelevant.

[matrix]

opp forum
the blokes won a flag since he left ffs

good on him
great bloke, spoke to him at an after game one year
really nice fella, good on him for gettign a flag


now
opp forum

[saynta]

I'd much prefer Savage and Dunstan

Although they ply vastly different roles, Savage is a better footballer and more use to the team. And Dunstan will be. Big boy is no real loss in my opinion.

May turn out to be, but we will have to wait and see.

[saynta]

Also noticed that McEvoy played alongside Ceglar today.

Seems there are people on this forum claiming Longer and Hickey cant play in the same side, as though this cannot be done... often claiming that good teams no longer play 2 rucks

Well, it seems to me that Hawthorn crushed Geelong today, even with 2 genuine rucks in their team
Maybe some people can re-assess their opinions on that one?

That's a very interesting post and worth discussing a lot further.

I personally think we can. Hickey would have certainly been a lot more valuable last Sunday than either Saad or Eli.

[saynta]

Hickey is pretty well on a par with McEvoy going forward.

All I am saying is that I have read some posts on here claiming that 2 rucks is just not done "in the modern game"
McEvoy is as much of a slow, genuine ruck as anyone... If hawks play 2 rucks, so can we...

So when people suggest Longer and Hicky both play, they cant be shot down as easily as some claim

Well you will probably get your wish this week and I hope it works but I think the Hawks could play 4 ruckmen and it wouldn't matter. If its the way to go then surely every club would play 2 genuine ruckmen and not many do including us so at the moment it can be shot down. Saying that I think they may do it this week and I wont like it but what does it matter what anyone likes. We have no say at all.

I actually think we may have won the game this week if Hickey played. But without Longer playing.

In my father's day they used to play four ruckmen. Two on the ball and two resting in the pockets, back and forward.

[saintsRrising]

In my father's day they used to play four ruckmen. Two on the ball and two resting in the pockets, back and forward.

Not knowing which day that was yes, they did indeed....but wasa before I was watching!

BUT early on those guys were short... and football was basically a kick to each player (or rather in the vague direction ofa team mate fora contest mark as kicking skills were not that flash!!) rather than a running game, which of course it is now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Cordner Cordener 188cm!

Then along came Norm Smit to invevt the Ruck Rover poistion who at 179cm at that time was too tall fora rover and too short fora ruckman.
Barassi wasn't the most skilled player in the competition but he more than made up for it with fierce determination. His early performances gave no indication of how he was going to practically invent, or at the very least popularise, the ruck-rover position. Tried in a variety of positions across the forward line he was a failure, but seeing his obvious natural talents and determination Smith stuck with him and wound up hatching a plan with trainer Hugh McPherson to use him in the middle despite being too short to be a ruckman and too tall for a rover.

1953 saw him play 12 games in the reserves and six with the seniors - debuting midway through the last term. He played two games at full-forward in the second and third rounds of 1954 before being sent back to the reserves. It was there that he was thrown onto the ball, and the modern ruck-rover was born.

It was in that position that his strength and leadership qualities blossomed, and he became a terror all around the ground for opposition sides. The Demons had a remarkable rise from 11th to Grand Final in 1954, and the second year Barassi was one of the major contributors.

When I started to actively watch in the late 60's / 70's there was one ruckman on the ball, and one in the forward pocket and another in the back pocket to play on the forward pocket ruckman.

[Linton Lodger]

I'd much prefer Savage and Dunstan

...and Acres