The match day experience

[Austinnn]

I'm going to sit on the fence on this issue.

I agree that it's annoying, but I get annoyed by lots of things; betting odds under the scoreboard, commentators attatching a brand to every statistic (i.e. The Futbuck's Megaburger Look Away Handpass Of The Year), the fatness of the majority of the crowd, how many people just chuck rubbish on the floor...

I'd like it if the footy experience were free of commercialisation and pure; that's not how professional sports works nowadays, is it? Blame the USA or the greed of our AFL administrators, or the passive compliance of the Australian public, it doesn't matter because we've opened the box and it cannot be closed.

I agree with Plugger that it's good for kids and new members are always the target, but it's not a Wiggles performance either. It's family entertainment, not children's entertainment. I agree with Ev and StB that in a lot of cases, it's just an excuse to shoehorn more commercials in there, as children are one of the few social groups who will not complain about ads.

Without trying to sound snooty, when Australia embraces a new concept, initially they tend to take it too far, and we are seeing that with this new wave of "fan engagement". One would hope that the keen eyes of the overseeers are surveying which concepts fly with the crowds and which ones don't, and the experience will be pared back appropriately in coming years.

How to survive in the meantime
I have ranted about this many times before, but to save you the pain of searching for those posts and reading them, I'll repeat an ultra condensed solution to this fake atmosphere nonsense. Here it is:

YOU DON'T LIKE THEIR ATMOSPHERE? CREATE YOUR OWN!

I realise you probably do go to games, wear red white and black stuff, shout, cheer and boo, maybe even some of you have banners or flags. What's missing? Firstly, organisation.

The most impressive fan groups in the world are the ones with a strong coordinated presence. Songs that people sing en masse, huge banners that get passed around the ground, movement, activity, madness, fun. A sense of belonging. Back before people got lazy and corporations provided entertainment, the public did it themselves.

Let's not get into another slanging match about our poor old cheersquad, but if you don't like their atmosphere, create your own.

If you could be bothered, here's one of my long-form rants about the subject.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=76055&p=1223795&hil ... r#p1223795

Why does there have to be an 'atmosphere'? I came here for the footy

A valid point. Why aren't footy fans enough? I follow Liverpool FC in the UK (sorry Ev and Jiggles) and their fan groups are currently having the same conversation, for different reasons. Purism vs The Modern World. No-one is wrong.

I think if you are after an experience that is pure footy and nothing else, you might have to drop down a league. The money leagues aren't about that. Sport is not the opium of the people now, it's been cut with bleach and weedkiller.

Maybe we need to work out why people stay away from the footy. Is it because it's not entertaining enough? Are there other reasons? Maybe people don't like being sat amongst a bunch of people they might see as angry aggressive idiots. Maybe the game is too choreographed and bland nowadays. Maybe it's harder to get to the games, with all the suburban Victorian grounds being deserted (personally, i think this was one of the biggest mistakes that the AFL made, and they've made plenty).

Or maybe it's just because we have better alternatives that didn't exist in previous generations. If that's the case, we do need to offer more than we did to keep the next generations coming. Will pure footy get new members rushing through the turnstiles? As we get older and eventually stop going to matches, how will the sport survive? Can we teach our children to just enjoy the game and not worry about being bored?

Here's an idea for starters; the AFL seems to be run by ex-players or business leaders, which is fine, but when it comes to creating an attractive culture, you need thinkers and artists, left-field people. I'm sure the AFL has a lot of smart people in its offices, people who are students of the game, but probably limited creatively or all thinking along the same lines. Bob Murphy is one player who is worth reading; how many others are there? Compare that to the music world which is really diverse and rich creatively. There's a certain basic thinking around footy that manifests itself into every decision the AFL makes on how to market its sport. Maybe the AFL just need to be smarter these days.

[saynta]

I'm going to sit on the fence on this issue.

I agree that it's annoying, but I get annoyed by lots of things; , the fatness of the majority of the crowd, how many people just chuck rubbish on the floor...

Really? you need to get a life then.

[Austinnn]

I'm going to sit on the fence on this issue.

I agree that it's annoying, but I get annoyed by lots of things; , the fatness of the majority of the crowd, how many people just chuck rubbish on the floor...

Really? you need to get a life then.

Don't worry Saynta, I've got a life. But thanks for the witty insult, keep them coming, Fatty.

[st.byron]

I enjoyed what I saw on Sunday. It really had a home match feel which is not an easy task in the Dome.

I think sometimes those of us who have been around VFL/AFL for 20, 30,40, 50 years or whatever get a little precious about this game of or ours. Subconsciously I think we sometimes think it is our game and that others are trying to take it from us or change it for the worse.

I have no doubt the game I enjoyed in the 70s, 80s & 90s was far different to the one that Saints supporters enjoyed in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc. And I’ve got no doubt those supporters would’ve despaired at how the game was changing from the one they had grown up loving.

I have been a Saints member for 42 consecutive years however I am no more important than the young person who is in their first year on membership. I cannot claim ownership of the Saints.

There is enormous competition for the entertainment dollar and whether we like it or not the game needs to evolve and bring the next generation with it. It really is perish or die.

If you really hate it then perhaps it’s time to hang up your scarf. The game we enjoyed decades ago ain't coming back.

But personally I’m looking forward to the next games at Etihad as much as I have for a long time

Spaceman, I'm sure you're right that the game was different to watch in the 30's and 40's compared to when I grew up and that the evolution of the game will always have it's critics.
The footy doesn't exist in a bubble from the rest of our culture and just reflects broader cultural values. The thing that I really object to is the culture of having to be entertained every single second. Personally I find it intrusive and irritating. There's no space just to enjoy being there. Like we used to have in the breaks between quarters. Time to soak up the atmosphere and have a natural up and down in the rhythm of intensity of being at the footy. Now we can't have any space that's not filled up with 'entertainment' and it's a constant "up" experience. Even if that 'entertainment' is inane mind-numbing garbage, the dominant message now is that it's better to have it than not at all. That's the thing I object to. That we're teaching our kids to continuously expect stimulation and entertainment from outside themselves. No 'down time'. It's everywhere in our culture, not just at the footy. Go to the airport and sit in the gate lounge. Do you have a choice about hearing the latest about J-Lo's breast implants on breakfast TV? Nope.
Plugger, I still don't agree with what you've said about the current match day experience being validated because the kids like it. The kids would still like the footy without all the inane ads and idiots spruiking at 100 decibels. Because the footy is enough on it's own. It's stands as a great game and spectacle in its' own right. That's enough. But instead, the footy has now become just another place where kids learn that being entertained and having invasive noise every single second of their existence is essential to having a good time. It's normal. And that makes me sad and cross and it's not an environment I want to be in.

[Sainternist]

This article rings true for me. It is now a far cry from the days of attending matches at the suburban footy oval and watching a curtain raiser before the big game. I cherish those old times. The old experience was something else, and one of the main reasons why I attended the footy. Unfortunately, the AFL has pretty much succeeded in killing off the old grassroots aspect. I guess it's a sign of the times, with professional sports everywhere becoming Americanised. It's one of the darksides to globalisation. It's sad, but unfortunately there's little we now can do about it. The mediocrity of Mickey Mouse-style crass commercialism has taken over because the people seem to have become numb to it. Perhaps they don't know any better? Unfortunately those who care about it are now in a minority.

[amusingname]

My two cents, growing up in the 80's/early 90's and heading to Moorabbin, I don't think I was all that interested in the game on the field, more enjoyed being out in the crowd with my dad and brothers and watching them get excited or (more likely in those days) frustrated with our lack of success, even if the concept of winning and losing didn't mean much to be back then.

I do remember getting excited when I got given a St Kilda plush toy one day at the game by an injured Danny Frawley when we were in the social club, promptly calling it 'Deano' after Dean Rice due it its bright white hair (in retrospect, a poor choice given Barks was blonde and still running around as well).

As a teenager and heading to Waverley, it became all about the game and I didn't care about anything that went along with it. Now in my 30's I started to notice a few years ago how bored some kids seem at the footy, just don't have the attention span yet to appreciate it, same as I was. My brother and sister in law have only taken their kids to a couple of games, as before the game starts they are bored and become restless (and quite frankly, annoying to all around). That will change as they get older and play the game themselves, but if the clubs can find someway to keep the kids interested before the bounce and at the breaks I can't see any harm, even if it isn't ideal for some old-school fans.

[saintspremiers]

My two cents, growing up in the 80's/early 90's and heading to Moorabbin, I don't think I was all that interested in the game on the field, more enjoyed being out in the crowd with my dad and brothers and watching them get excited or (more likely in those days) frustrated with our lack of success, even if the concept of winning and losing didn't mean much to be back then.

I do remember getting excited when I got given a St Kilda plush toy one day at the game by an injured Danny Frawley when we were in the social club, promptly calling it 'Deano' after Dean Rice due it its bright white hair (in retrospect, a poor choice given Barks was blonde and still running around as well).

As a teenager and heading to Waverley, it became all about the game and I didn't care about anything that went along with it. Now in my 30's I started to notice a few years ago how bored some kids seem at the footy, just don't have the attention span yet to appreciate it, same as I was. My brother and sister in law have only taken their kids to a couple of games, as before the game starts they are bored and become restless (and quite frankly, annoying to all around). That will change as they get older and play the game themselves, but if the clubs can find someway to keep the kids interested before the bounce and at the breaks I can't see any harm, even if it isn't ideal for some old-school fans.

Boredom can be fixed with an iPad and the free wifi they now have. It's a godsend!

[Sainternist]

My two cents, growing up in the 80's/early 90's and heading to Moorabbin, I don't think I was all that interested in the game on the field, more enjoyed being out in the crowd with my dad and brothers and watching them get excited or (more likely in those days) frustrated with our lack of success, even if the concept of winning and losing didn't mean much to be back then.

I do remember getting excited when I got given a St Kilda plush toy one day at the game by an injured Danny Frawley when we were in the social club, promptly calling it 'Deano' after Dean Rice due it its bright white hair (in retrospect, a poor choice given Barks was blonde and still running around as well).

As a teenager and heading to Waverley, it became all about the game and I didn't care about anything that went along with it. Now in my 30's I started to notice a few years ago how bored some kids seem at the footy, just don't have the attention span yet to appreciate it, same as I was. My brother and sister in law have only taken their kids to a couple of games, as before the game starts they are bored and become restless (and quite frankly, annoying to all around). That will change as they get older and play the game themselves, but if the clubs can find someway to keep the kids interested before the bounce and at the breaks I can't see any harm, even if it isn't ideal for some old-school fans.

Boredom can be fixed with an iPad and the free wifi they now have. It's a godsend!

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

[Dr Spaceman]

I enjoyed what I saw on Sunday. It really had a home match feel which is not an easy task in the Dome.

I think sometimes those of us who have been around VFL/AFL for 20, 30,40, 50 years or whatever get a little precious about this game of or ours. Subconsciously I think we sometimes think it is our game and that others are trying to take it from us or change it for the worse.

I have no doubt the game I enjoyed in the 70s, 80s & 90s was far different to the one that Saints supporters enjoyed in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc. And I’ve got no doubt those supporters would’ve despaired at how the game was changing from the one they had grown up loving.

I have been a Saints member for 42 consecutive years however I am no more important than the young person who is in their first year on membership. I cannot claim ownership of the Saints.

There is enormous competition for the entertainment dollar and whether we like it or not the game needs to evolve and bring the next generation with it. It really is perish or die.

If you really hate it then perhaps it’s time to hang up your scarf. The game we enjoyed decades ago ain't coming back.

But personally I’m looking forward to the next games at Etihad as much as I have for a long time

Spaceman, I'm sure you're right that the game was different to watch in the 30's and 40's compared to when I grew up and that the evolution of the game will always have it's critics.
The footy doesn't exist in a bubble from the rest of our culture and just reflects broader cultural values. The thing that I really object to is the culture of having to be entertained every single second. Personally I find it intrusive and irritating. There's no space just to enjoy being there. Like we used to have in the breaks between quarters. Time to soak up the atmosphere and have a natural up and down in the rhythm of intensity of being at the footy. Now we can't have any space that's not filled up with 'entertainment' and it's a constant "up" experience. Even if that 'entertainment' is inane mind-numbing garbage, the dominant message now is that it's better to have it than not at all. That's the thing I object to. That we're teaching our kids to continuously expect stimulation and entertainment from outside themselves. No 'down time'. It's everywhere in our culture, not just at the footy. Go to the airport and sit in the gate lounge. Do you have a choice about hearing the latest about J-Lo's breast implants on breakfast TV? Nope.
Plugger, I still don't agree with what you've said about the current match day experience being validated because the kids like it. The kids would still like the footy without all the inane ads and idiots spruiking at 100 decibels. Because the footy is enough on it's own. It's stands as a great game and spectacle in its' own right. That's enough. But instead, the footy has now become just another place where kids learn that being entertained and having invasive noise every single second of their existence is essential to having a good time. It's normal. And that makes me sad and cross and it's not an environment I want to be in.

I get all that and agree with it. I don't want to be bombarded with news of J-Lo, or Beiber or any other overpaid, over-exposed halfwit. But that happens 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It is a problem for society to solve, if indeed society has the will to do so.

That doesn't mean the AFL should not attempt to stay up with the trends and try to give customers what is perceived to be value for money.

I'm sure many of us older blokes would still happily stand in the rain in the outer, and balance on tip toes in flooded toilets at half time, if it meant we could watch the Saints doing battle. But a lot of people wouldn't and that's the reason why the league no longer expects people to do so.

Like I said, I enjoyed last week. Music, sounds and lights all made it feel like a St Kilda home game. More so than any other game I've attended at the Dome.

And not a Hollywood celeb to be seen anywhere (except perhaps Eric Bana )

[stevie]

It's interesting that I just realised yesterday when telling a friend about my trip to Turkey, why I felt the actual Dawn Service wasn't as emotional or as massive as I and a lot of the people I attended with thought it may be.

Don't get me wrong - I was honoured to be at such a historic event but after the service ended we all sort of looked at each other and said 'is that it'? There didn't seem to be anything to make the 100th different from any of the past ones.

And yesterday I realised it was most likely because during the long night of waiting, we watched and listened to documentaries, songs etc on big screens and on the 'stage' in front of us. Now most of these were really good and very informative. And at times, there was simply rest periods where there was silence. Also the MC was a guy named Warren Brown, a well known cartoonist ( did the ones on the old Hey hey shows). Okay, he spoke well and was enthusiastic but it did get a bit grating at times and felt like it was a show at a theatre or something.

Anyway carry on

[plugger66]

I enjoyed what I saw on Sunday. It really had a home match feel which is not an easy task in the Dome.

I think sometimes those of us who have been around VFL/AFL for 20, 30,40, 50 years or whatever get a little precious about this game of or ours. Subconsciously I think we sometimes think it is our game and that others are trying to take it from us or change it for the worse.

I have no doubt the game I enjoyed in the 70s, 80s & 90s was far different to the one that Saints supporters enjoyed in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc. And I’ve got no doubt those supporters would’ve despaired at how the game was changing from the one they had grown up loving.

I have been a Saints member for 42 consecutive years however I am no more important than the young person who is in their first year on membership. I cannot claim ownership of the Saints.

There is enormous competition for the entertainment dollar and whether we like it or not the game needs to evolve and bring the next generation with it. It really is perish or die.

If you really hate it then perhaps it’s time to hang up your scarf. The game we enjoyed decades ago ain't coming back.

But personally I’m looking forward to the next games at Etihad as much as I have for a long time

Spaceman, I'm sure you're right that the game was different to watch in the 30's and 40's compared to when I grew up and that the evolution of the game will always have it's critics.
The footy doesn't exist in a bubble from the rest of our culture and just reflects broader cultural values. The thing that I really object to is the culture of having to be entertained every single second. Personally I find it intrusive and irritating. There's no space just to enjoy being there. Like we used to have in the breaks between quarters. Time to soak up the atmosphere and have a natural up and down in the rhythm of intensity of being at the footy. Now we can't have any space that's not filled up with 'entertainment' and it's a constant "up" experience. Even if that 'entertainment' is inane mind-numbing garbage, the dominant message now is that it's better to have it than not at all. That's the thing I object to. That we're teaching our kids to continuously expect stimulation and entertainment from outside themselves. No 'down time'. It's everywhere in our culture, not just at the footy. Go to the airport and sit in the gate lounge. Do you have a choice about hearing the latest about J-Lo's breast implants on breakfast TV? Nope.
Plugger, I still don't agree with what you've said about the current match day experience being validated because the kids like it. The kids would still like the footy without all the inane ads and idiots spruiking at 100 decibels. Because the footy is enough on it's own. It's stands as a great game and spectacle in its' own right. That's enough. But instead, the footy has now become just another place where kids learn that being entertained and having invasive noise every single second of their existence is essential to having a good time. It's normal. And that makes me sad and cross and it's not an environment I want to be in.

I will say one thing to debunk your theory about the kids enjoying the footy no matter what. Why did just about every kid in the late 60's or early 70's try and find a piece of cardboard and slide down the grass on the back of the outer whilst the game was on? You couldn't see the game doing that but kids didn't care because they were bored with the game and we were a good side then. Without being rude you said you haven't been to the footy for years and I can tell you kids get bored of the footy every easily like they did back in our day. I can tell you that from my daughter. They certainly don't seem as bored now with all this crap going on.

You seem more worried about the culture of how kids are now more than the stuff at the footy. Well it isn't footy's job to change how current kids are.

[Sainternist]

I enjoyed what I saw on Sunday. It really had a home match feel which is not an easy task in the Dome.

I think sometimes those of us who have been around VFL/AFL for 20, 30,40, 50 years or whatever get a little precious about this game of or ours. Subconsciously I think we sometimes think it is our game and that others are trying to take it from us or change it for the worse.

I have no doubt the game I enjoyed in the 70s, 80s & 90s was far different to the one that Saints supporters enjoyed in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc. And I’ve got no doubt those supporters would’ve despaired at how the game was changing from the one they had grown up loving.

I have been a Saints member for 42 consecutive years however I am no more important than the young person who is in their first year on membership. I cannot claim ownership of the Saints.

There is enormous competition for the entertainment dollar and whether we like it or not the game needs to evolve and bring the next generation with it. It really is perish or die.

If you really hate it then perhaps it’s time to hang up your scarf. The game we enjoyed decades ago ain't coming back.

But personally I’m looking forward to the next games at Etihad as much as I have for a long time

Spaceman, I'm sure you're right that the game was different to watch in the 30's and 40's compared to when I grew up and that the evolution of the game will always have it's critics.
The footy doesn't exist in a bubble from the rest of our culture and just reflects broader cultural values. The thing that I really object to is the culture of having to be entertained every single second. Personally I find it intrusive and irritating. There's no space just to enjoy being there. Like we used to have in the breaks between quarters. Time to soak up the atmosphere and have a natural up and down in the rhythm of intensity of being at the footy. Now we can't have any space that's not filled up with 'entertainment' and it's a constant "up" experience. Even if that 'entertainment' is inane mind-numbing garbage, the dominant message now is that it's better to have it than not at all. That's the thing I object to. That we're teaching our kids to continuously expect stimulation and entertainment from outside themselves. No 'down time'. It's everywhere in our culture, not just at the footy. Go to the airport and sit in the gate lounge. Do you have a choice about hearing the latest about J-Lo's breast implants on breakfast TV? Nope.
Plugger, I still don't agree with what you've said about the current match day experience being validated because the kids like it. The kids would still like the footy without all the inane ads and idiots spruiking at 100 decibels. Because the footy is enough on it's own. It's stands as a great game and spectacle in its' own right. That's enough. But instead, the footy has now become just another place where kids learn that being entertained and having invasive noise every single second of their existence is essential to having a good time. It's normal. And that makes me sad and cross and it's not an environment I want to be in.

I will say one thing to debunk your theory about the kids enjoying the footy no matter what. Why did just about every kid in the late 60's or early 70's try and find a piece of cardboard and slide down the grass on the back of the outer whilst the game was on? You couldn't see the game doing that but kids didn't care because they were bored with the game and we were a good side then. Without being rude you said you haven't been to the footy for years and I can tell you kids get bored of the footy every easily like they did back in our day. I can tell you that from my daughter. They certainly don't seem as bored now with all this crap going on.

You seem more worried about the culture of how kids are now more than the stuff at the footy. Well it isn't footy's job to change how current kids are.

I like this story of kids who could once entertain themselves by improvising with a piece of cardboard to help them slide down a hill. And I remember as a kid having a great old time just playing kick to kick with my mates after, before or at half time of the game. You still see that these days, which is fantastic. I guess the big difference today is kids are being spoon fed entertainment via advertising. It's quite sinister in some respects. Almost child abuse when advertising preys on kids, and then the parents have to shell out to keep them passive. I'm all for the promo stuff from the clubs, but some of it isn't even relevant to the game. Like the bad MCs and the endless barrage of noise the article refers to. I think the main point made in that article is that "the match day experience" can having a jarring effect on some. It is just too crazy. It would be nice if they toned it down a little. Just let people catch their breath and chill out during the breaks, so they can conserve their energy for the rest of the match. Mind you, sometimes I just like to leave the ground at half time for a breather (not cigarette smoking) if it all gets too much and grates on my nerves. That seems to be a nice alternative and escape from any moronic inferno.

[plugger66]

I enjoyed what I saw on Sunday. It really had a home match feel which is not an easy task in the Dome.

I think sometimes those of us who have been around VFL/AFL for 20, 30,40, 50 years or whatever get a little precious about this game of or ours. Subconsciously I think we sometimes think it is our game and that others are trying to take it from us or change it for the worse.

I have no doubt the game I enjoyed in the 70s, 80s & 90s was far different to the one that Saints supporters enjoyed in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc. And I’ve got no doubt those supporters would’ve despaired at how the game was changing from the one they had grown up loving.

I have been a Saints member for 42 consecutive years however I am no more important than the young person who is in their first year on membership. I cannot claim ownership of the Saints.

There is enormous competition for the entertainment dollar and whether we like it or not the game needs to evolve and bring the next generation with it. It really is perish or die.

If you really hate it then perhaps it’s time to hang up your scarf. The game we enjoyed decades ago ain't coming back.

But personally I’m looking forward to the next games at Etihad as much as I have for a long time

Spaceman, I'm sure you're right that the game was different to watch in the 30's and 40's compared to when I grew up and that the evolution of the game will always have it's critics.
The footy doesn't exist in a bubble from the rest of our culture and just reflects broader cultural values. The thing that I really object to is the culture of having to be entertained every single second. Personally I find it intrusive and irritating. There's no space just to enjoy being there. Like we used to have in the breaks between quarters. Time to soak up the atmosphere and have a natural up and down in the rhythm of intensity of being at the footy. Now we can't have any space that's not filled up with 'entertainment' and it's a constant "up" experience. Even if that 'entertainment' is inane mind-numbing garbage, the dominant message now is that it's better to have it than not at all. That's the thing I object to. That we're teaching our kids to continuously expect stimulation and entertainment from outside themselves. No 'down time'. It's everywhere in our culture, not just at the footy. Go to the airport and sit in the gate lounge. Do you have a choice about hearing the latest about J-Lo's breast implants on breakfast TV? Nope.
Plugger, I still don't agree with what you've said about the current match day experience being validated because the kids like it. The kids would still like the footy without all the inane ads and idiots spruiking at 100 decibels. Because the footy is enough on it's own. It's stands as a great game and spectacle in its' own right. That's enough. But instead, the footy has now become just another place where kids learn that being entertained and having invasive noise every single second of their existence is essential to having a good time. It's normal. And that makes me sad and cross and it's not an environment I want to be in.

I will say one thing to debunk your theory about the kids enjoying the footy no matter what. Why did just about every kid in the late 60's or early 70's try and find a piece of cardboard and slide down the grass on the back of the outer whilst the game was on? You couldn't see the game doing that but kids didn't care because they were bored with the game and we were a good side then. Without being rude you said you haven't been to the footy for years and I can tell you kids get bored of the footy every easily like they did back in our day. I can tell you that from my daughter. They certainly don't seem as bored now with all this crap going on.

You seem more worried about the culture of how kids are now more than the stuff at the footy. Well it isn't footy's job to change how current kids are.

I like this story of kids who could once entertain themselves by improvising with a piece of cardboard to help them slide down a hill. And I remember as a kid having a great old time just playing kick to kick with my mates after, before or at half time of the game. You still see that these days, which is fantastic. I guess the big difference today is kids are being spoon fed entertainment via advertising. It's quite sinister in some respects. Almost child abuse when advertising preys on kids, and then the parents have to shell out to keep them passive. I'm all for the promo stuff from the clubs, but some of it isn't even relevant to the game. Like the bad MCs and the endless barrage of noise the article refers to. I think the main point made in that article is that "the match day experience" can having a jarring effect on some. It is just too crazy. It would be nice if they toned it down a little. Just let people catch their breath and chill out during the breaks, so they can conserve their energy for the rest of the match. Mind you, sometimes I just like to leave the ground at half time for a breather (not cigarette smoking) if it all gets too much and grates on my nerves. That seems to be a nice alternative and escape from any moronic inferno.

The thing is yesterdays cardboard is today computer stuff and noise that older people don't like but kids do. This is called a generation gap. We are trying to say kids shouldn't like this stuff because we don't. What right do we have to say that? Its not dangerous to anyone, its just different to how we were brought up and even though I wont be here to prove it todays kids will complain about how tomorrows kids are brought up. It happens every generation. Its us who need to deal with it. Andlike you said just leave the stdium or as I do go to the bar and have a drink. Its not that hard.

[Sainternist]

I enjoyed what I saw on Sunday. It really had a home match feel which is not an easy task in the Dome.

I think sometimes those of us who have been around VFL/AFL for 20, 30,40, 50 years or whatever get a little precious about this game of or ours. Subconsciously I think we sometimes think it is our game and that others are trying to take it from us or change it for the worse.

I have no doubt the game I enjoyed in the 70s, 80s & 90s was far different to the one that Saints supporters enjoyed in the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s etc. And I’ve got no doubt those supporters would’ve despaired at how the game was changing from the one they had grown up loving.

I have been a Saints member for 42 consecutive years however I am no more important than the young person who is in their first year on membership. I cannot claim ownership of the Saints.

There is enormous competition for the entertainment dollar and whether we like it or not the game needs to evolve and bring the next generation with it. It really is perish or die.

If you really hate it then perhaps it’s time to hang up your scarf. The game we enjoyed decades ago ain't coming back.

But personally I’m looking forward to the next games at Etihad as much as I have for a long time

Spaceman, I'm sure you're right that the game was different to watch in the 30's and 40's compared to when I grew up and that the evolution of the game will always have it's critics.
The footy doesn't exist in a bubble from the rest of our culture and just reflects broader cultural values. The thing that I really object to is the culture of having to be entertained every single second. Personally I find it intrusive and irritating. There's no space just to enjoy being there. Like we used to have in the breaks between quarters. Time to soak up the atmosphere and have a natural up and down in the rhythm of intensity of being at the footy. Now we can't have any space that's not filled up with 'entertainment' and it's a constant "up" experience. Even if that 'entertainment' is inane mind-numbing garbage, the dominant message now is that it's better to have it than not at all. That's the thing I object to. That we're teaching our kids to continuously expect stimulation and entertainment from outside themselves. No 'down time'. It's everywhere in our culture, not just at the footy. Go to the airport and sit in the gate lounge. Do you have a choice about hearing the latest about J-Lo's breast implants on breakfast TV? Nope.
Plugger, I still don't agree with what you've said about the current match day experience being validated because the kids like it. The kids would still like the footy without all the inane ads and idiots spruiking at 100 decibels. Because the footy is enough on it's own. It's stands as a great game and spectacle in its' own right. That's enough. But instead, the footy has now become just another place where kids learn that being entertained and having invasive noise every single second of their existence is essential to having a good time. It's normal. And that makes me sad and cross and it's not an environment I want to be in.

I will say one thing to debunk your theory about the kids enjoying the footy no matter what. Why did just about every kid in the late 60's or early 70's try and find a piece of cardboard and slide down the grass on the back of the outer whilst the game was on? You couldn't see the game doing that but kids didn't care because they were bored with the game and we were a good side then. Without being rude you said you haven't been to the footy for years and I can tell you kids get bored of the footy every easily like they did back in our day. I can tell you that from my daughter. They certainly don't seem as bored now with all this crap going on.

You seem more worried about the culture of how kids are now more than the stuff at the footy. Well it isn't footy's job to change how current kids are.

I like this story of kids who could once entertain themselves by improvising with a piece of cardboard to help them slide down a hill. And I remember as a kid having a great old time just playing kick to kick with my mates after, before or at half time of the game. You still see that these days, which is fantastic. I guess the big difference today is kids are being spoon fed entertainment via advertising. It's quite sinister in some respects. Almost child abuse when advertising preys on kids, and then the parents have to shell out to keep them passive. I'm all for the promo stuff from the clubs, but some of it isn't even relevant to the game. Like the bad MCs and the endless barrage of noise the article refers to. I think the main point made in that article is that "the match day experience" can having a jarring effect on some. It is just too crazy. It would be nice if they toned it down a little. Just let people catch their breath and chill out during the breaks, so they can conserve their energy for the rest of the match. Mind you, sometimes I just like to leave the ground at half time for a breather (not cigarette smoking) if it all gets too much and grates on my nerves. That seems to be a nice alternative and escape from any moronic inferno.

The thing is yesterdays cardboard is today computer stuff and noise that older people don't like but kids do. This is called a generation gap. We are trying to say kids shouldn't like this stuff because we don't. What right do we have to say that? Its not dangerous to anyone, its just different to how we were brought up and even though I wont be here to prove it todays kids will complain about how tomorrows kids are brought up. It happens every generation. Its us who need to deal with it. Andlike you said just leave the stdium or as I do go to the bar and have a drink. Its not that hard.

I get what you are saying with the generation gap stuff, but what about when it is intrusive to those who don't want it? We never asked for it, the big companies and so forth just came in and imposed it on everyone. There's a big difference between kids rolling down a hill and a whole lot of headache inducing noise and flashing signs. It would be nice to find out how many people actually like the bombardment of noise and images. I wouldn't like to say, as you raised a good point of it being foolish to make assumptions on what people like and don't like. Unfortunately, for those who don't like it, the only alternative is to withdraw from it, because as people, we have become almost powerless to the dominance of advertising and crass commercialism in today's world which is ruled by big business and not the people.

[Dr Spaceman]

There's a big difference between kids rolling down a hill and a whole lot of headache inducing noise and flashing signs. It would be nice to find out how many people actually like the bombardment of noise and images. I wouldn't like to say, as you raised a good point of it being foolish to make assumptions on what people like and don't like. Unfortunately, for those who don't like it, the only alternative is to withdraw from it, because as people, we have become almost powerless to the dominance of advertising and crass commercialism in today's world which is ruled by big business and not the people.

Maybe the club could sell these in team colours

[Sainternist]

There's a big difference between kids rolling down a hill and a whole lot of headache inducing noise and flashing signs. It would be nice to find out how many people actually like the bombardment of noise and images. I wouldn't like to say, as you raised a good point of it being foolish to make assumptions on what people like and don't like. Unfortunately, for those who don't like it, the only alternative is to withdraw from it, because as people, we have become almost powerless to the dominance of advertising and crass commercialism in today's world which is ruled by big business and not the people.

Maybe the club could sell these in team colours

Hahahaha That's fantastic! I would buy one. It reminds me of this excellent idea, which The Astor Theatre jokingly recommended to some of its patrons who would use their phones during movie screenings http://nophone.myshopify.com/

[st.byron]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

[st.byron]

I get what you are saying with the generation gap stuff, but what about when it is intrusive to those who don't want it? We never asked for it, the big companies and so forth just came in and imposed it on everyone. There's a big difference between kids rolling down a hill and a whole lot of headache inducing noise and flashing signs. It would be nice to find out how many people actually like the bombardment of noise and images. I wouldn't like to say, as you raised a good point of it being foolish to make assumptions on what people like and don't like. Unfortunately, for those who don't like it, the only alternative is to withdraw from it, because as people, we have become almost powerless to the dominance of advertising and crass commercialism in today's world which is ruled by big business and not the people.

Thanks Sainternist. Summed up how I feel exactly.

[Sainternist]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

People were doing the same thing the last time I went to the NGV. A majority of the population has become obsessed with capturing images instead of actually taking a spectacle in with their own eyes. I remember Louis CK jokingly saying that if the Second Coming made an appearance everybody would be too distracted by putting it up on social media, instead of actually witnessing the event. I hope galleries start to intervene soon, because it is distracting for the people who are there for the art.

[st.byron]

People were doing the same thing the last time I went to the NGV. A majority of the population has become obsessed with capturing images instead of actually taking a spectacle in with their own eyes. I remember Louis CK jokingly saying that if the Second Coming made an appearance everybody would be too distracted by putting it up on social media, instead of actually witnessing the event. I hope galleries start to intervene soon, because it is distracting for the people who are there for the art.

Agreed. Louis CK, now there's a funny onto it dude. Check out his routine, "Of course but maybe".

[kosifantutti]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

My wife took me there. She looked at all the works of art and I found a bit of cardboard and slid down a hill at the back.

[GrumpyOne]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

Perhaps if they conducted art gallery tours like this people would look at the paintings more instead of photographing them. http://nga.gov.au/Calendar/NudeTour/

[st.byron]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

My wife took me there. She looked at all the works of art and I found a bit of cardboard and slid down a hill at the back.

Yep. Paris is so boring.

[Sainternist]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

My wife took me there. She looked at all the works of art and I found a bit of cardboard and slid down a hill at the back.

Hahahaha Nice one, Kosi!

I honestly don't get why people are saying Saintsational has become boring, particularly with the witty banter provided by the moderators.

St.B, Louis CK is definitely provides some interesting social observations. I believe the 5th season of his TV series 'Louie' is a handful of episodes in. Looking forward to catching up on what I missed out thus far.

[gringo]

Soon everyone will be watching the game on some sort of screen and not actually be there physically to attend the match. Spectators instead will show up by proxy, having an avatar representing them in their seats.

Scarey but true. I went to the Musee D'Orsay in Paris about 18 months ago. Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, Picasso to name a few.
And I watched a busload of Japanese tourists go around and not actually look at any of the artworks. They just took photos of them. I kid you not. Van Gogh's Starry starry night and they didn't even look at it. Just took photos. Their entire experience of some of world's most stunning artworks was via the screen of their camera.

My wife took me there. She looked at all the works of art and I found a bit of cardboard and slid down a hill at the back.

I took my kids and parents in law to MONA in hobart. I''m not sure if it was the tattooed pigs, the cloaca machine that takes food and turns it to s*** or the pictures made using anuses with lipstick applied to them but it didn't go down so well. The free iPod commentary which used a lot of c bombs didn't help. Anyway they got a bit of an education that day.