Looking at the current AFL Ladder......

[matrix]

f*** me dead i can understand my cats typing/grammar easier

[plugger66]

f*** me dead i can understand my cats typing/grammar easier

I love people who cant speak without swearing. I suppose it happens when you are stuck at home with no one but just a partner, a TV and a huge chair to sit in.

By the way it isn't that hard to understand but then again you didn't attend. Nice dobbing about a post to the mods Matrix.

[kosifantutti]

f*** me dead i can understand my cats typing/grammar easier

If you're going to criticize grammar, it's "cat's" or "cats'" depending on how many cats you have.

[Teflon]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

How would that have gone when Riewoldt went at 1?
It's pretty simple.

[plugger66]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

How would that have gone when Riewoldt went at 1?
It's pretty simple.

Or Fyffe at 21 or Selwood at 7 ot Fisher in the 50's or Steven in the 40's or Joey in the 30's or Dal at 14 or Watts at one or Fiora at 3 or Tambling at 4 or Swan in the 50's.

[Teflon]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

How would that have gone when Riewoldt went at 1?
It's pretty simple.

Or Fyffe at 21 or Selwood at 7 ot Fisher in the 50's or Steven in the 40's or Joey in the 30's or Dal at 14 or Watts at one or Fiora at 3 or Tambling at 4 or Swan in the 50's.

And how many of them are CHFs you build a side round for a decade genius ?
I can't believe you are now arguing that pick 1 is of no benefit to pick 7 cause Cats got lucky that year?
I must confess I didn't read all that diatribe of dribble you posted previously (I do appreciate you finally did some homework !!) truth is I got bored half way through but the bit about your GF winners since 08 proves absolutely nothing - infact all of them bar Sydney had multiple top 5 picks..... What point are you trying to prove....mine?
By the way, let's just ignore Sydney's extra cap to buy in top end talent... I guess Buddy doesn't count and there's been others before him or take into account the Cats getting multiple FS picks who no doubt would have been top draft choices.
Fear not, Saints are ordinary at the moment and thankfully those at the club know we need top end talent in and the best way to secure that is via the draft.
You must've been shattered at the weekend after another loss?? Rough Sunday night on the sauce all alone again or did Lenny drop by with some muffins to cheer you up??

[plugger66]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

How would that have gone when Riewoldt went at 1?
It's pretty simple.

Or Fyffe at 21 or Selwood at 7 ot Fisher in the 50's or Steven in the 40's or Joey in the 30's or Dal at 14 or Watts at one or Fiora at 3 or Tambling at 4 or Swan in the 50's.

And how many of them are CHFs you build a side round for a decade genius ?
I can't believe you are now arguing that pick 1 is of no benefit to pick 7 cause Cats got lucky that year?
I must confess I didn't read all that diatribe of dribble you posted previously (I do appreciate you finally did some homework !!) truth is I got bored half way through but the bit about your GF winners since 08 proves absolutely nothing - infact all of them bar Sydney had multiple top 5 picks..... What point are you trying to prove....mine?
By the way, let's just ignore Sydney's extra cap to buy in top end talent... I guess Buddy doesn't count and there's been others before him or take into account the Cats getting multiple FS picks who no doubt would have been top draft choices.
Fear not, Saints are ordinary at the moment and thankfully those at the club know we need top end talent in and the best way to secure that is via the draft.
You must've been shattered at the weekend after another loss?? Rough Sunday night on the sauce all alone again or did Lenny drop by with some muffins to cheer you up??

I didn't argue pick one wasn't better than pick 7. I used names to prove that many great players can be got from many pick numbers and a few ordinary players can be taken with those prized top 5 picks. Prized to you anyway.

And the point I was trying to prove with the top 5 pick is that having as many as Melbourne, Carlton or us means jack. Geelong beat us with one when we had 5. I know you don't like it when your emotive theory is proved complete rubbish. And that is rubbish. And the F/S and more money in the cap excuse. Who would have guessed that such a weak argument by you would mean that comes up. You really are struggling. Have you got in front of the mirror yet? You need to quickly. Your embarrassing yourself with the weakest argument I have seen on here.

And no Lenny didn't pop around and I was disappointed to lose. Who wouldn't be? You that's right and citywest. And I didn't have a drink at all. I really hope you have been drinking everytime you have posted on this topic because I cant see any other reason for the crap you have written. Now delete your account before you make more silly statements with no proof to back up any of them. Silly man.

[Teflon]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

How would that have gone when Riewoldt went at 1?
It's pretty simple.

Or Fyffe at 21 or Selwood at 7 ot Fisher in the 50's or Steven in the 40's or Joey in the 30's or Dal at 14 or Watts at one or Fiora at 3 or Tambling at 4 or Swan in the 50's.

And how many of them are CHFs you build a side round for a decade genius ?
I can't believe you are now arguing that pick 1 is of no benefit to pick 7 cause Cats got lucky that year?
I must confess I didn't read all that diatribe of dribble you posted previously (I do appreciate you finally did some homework !!) truth is I got bored half way through but the bit about your GF winners since 08 proves absolutely nothing - infact all of them bar Sydney had multiple top 5 picks..... What point are you trying to prove....mine?
By the way, let's just ignore Sydney's extra cap to buy in top end talent... I guess Buddy doesn't count and there's been others before him or take into account the Cats getting multiple FS picks who no doubt would have been top draft choices.
Fear not, Saints are ordinary at the moment and thankfully those at the club know we need top end talent in and the best way to secure that is via the draft.
You must've been shattered at the weekend after another loss?? Rough Sunday night on the sauce all alone again or did Lenny drop by with some muffins to cheer you up??

I didn't argue pick one wasn't better than pick 7. I used names to prove that many great players can be got from many pick numbers and a few ordinary players can be taken with those prized top 5 picks. Prized to you anyway.

And the point I was trying to prove with the top 5 pick is that having as many as Melbourne, Carlton or us means jack. Geelong beat us with one when we had 5. I know you don't like it when your emotive theory is proved complete rubbish. And that is rubbish. And the F/S and more money in the cap excuse. Who would have guessed that such a weak argument by you would mean that comes up. You really are struggling. Have you got in front of the mirror yet? You need to quickly. Your embarrassing yourself with the weakest argument I have seen on here.

And no Lenny didn't pop around and I was disappointed to lose. Who wouldn't be? You that's right and citywest. And I didn't have a drink at all. I really hope you have been drinking everytime you have posted on this topic because I cant see any other reason for the crap you have written. Now delete your account before you make more silly statements with no proof to back up any of them. Silly man.

Lol you silly old fool - you put up a list most with multiple top 5 picks, ignored the special circumstances to both Swans and Cats (G Ablett anyone?), in an attempt to be all "factual " and just proved my point!!!!

Who ever said great choices can't be made later you crazy man?
Who ever said bad choices can't be made later?
All I've ever said is its about choice come draft time and the AFL system rewards lower finishing teams with a higher choice. You're now saying that has no benefit to it? I am saying, given where we were in 2000, I think it does and Id take Riewoldt over Sellwood any day of he week........ except....had I had pick 7 and not pick 1 that year .... I wouldn't have had that choice??
You keeping up bully ??

[plugger66]

It's pretty simple. 5-7 wins and pick 5ish is better than 2 wins and pick 1. Just ask Melbourne and Carlton fans.

How would that have gone when Riewoldt went at 1?
It's pretty simple.

Or Fyffe at 21 or Selwood at 7 ot Fisher in the 50's or Steven in the 40's or Joey in the 30's or Dal at 14 or Watts at one or Fiora at 3 or Tambling at 4 or Swan in the 50's.

And how many of them are CHFs you build a side round for a decade genius ?
I can't believe you are now arguing that pick 1 is of no benefit to pick 7 cause Cats got lucky that year?
I must confess I didn't read all that diatribe of dribble you posted previously (I do appreciate you finally did some homework !!) truth is I got bored half way through but the bit about your GF winners since 08 proves absolutely nothing - infact all of them bar Sydney had multiple top 5 picks..... What point are you trying to prove....mine?
By the way, let's just ignore Sydney's extra cap to buy in top end talent... I guess Buddy doesn't count and there's been others before him or take into account the Cats getting multiple FS picks who no doubt would have been top draft choices.
Fear not, Saints are ordinary at the moment and thankfully those at the club know we need top end talent in and the best way to secure that is via the draft.
You must've been shattered at the weekend after another loss?? Rough Sunday night on the sauce all alone again or did Lenny drop by with some muffins to cheer you up??

I didn't argue pick one wasn't better than pick 7. I used names to prove that many great players can be got from many pick numbers and a few ordinary players can be taken with those prized top 5 picks. Prized to you anyway.

And the point I was trying to prove with the top 5 pick is that having as many as Melbourne, Carlton or us means jack. Geelong beat us with one when we had 5. I know you don't like it when your emotive theory is proved complete rubbish. And that is rubbish. And the F/S and more money in the cap excuse. Who would have guessed that such a weak argument by you would mean that comes up. You really are struggling. Have you got in front of the mirror yet? You need to quickly. Your embarrassing yourself with the weakest argument I have seen on here.

And no Lenny didn't pop around and I was disappointed to lose. Who wouldn't be? You that's right and citywest. And I didn't have a drink at all. I really hope you have been drinking everytime you have posted on this topic because I cant see any other reason for the crap you have written. Now delete your account before you make more silly statements with no proof to back up any of them. Silly man.

Lol you silly old fool - you put up a list most with multiple top 5 picks, ignored the special circumstances to both Swans and Cats (G Ablett anyone?), in an attempt to be all "factual " and just proved my point!!!!

Who ever said great choices can't be made later you crazy man?
Who ever said bad choices can't be made later?
All I've ever said is its about choice come draft time and the AFL system rewards lower finishing teams with a higher choice. You're now saying that has no benefit to it? I am saying, given where we were in 2000, I think it does and Id take Riewoldt over Sellwood any day of he week........ except....had I had pick 7 and not pick 1 that year .... I wouldn't have had that choice??
You keeping up bully ??

Gary Ablett? What does that mean. Everyone at the time said he went about the right pick even though it was F/S. maybe you need a history lesson or is that your emotive lies again? Crazy man? Bad choices later? When did I say that? Teffers you really cant handle the fact that your theory has so many holes in it. And you call me the bully. Is that there for the mods so that they think it is me when quite clearly you try to be the bully but just lack the class to bring it off so resort to words like crazy man or having a drink or Lenny coming over. If it wasn't hilarious it would be sad.

I still cant follow your silly idea that port weren't down long enough when the pies and Hawks were down even less time and geelong and Sydney haven't been down in the current era. your theory is all very wishy washy. You say things that can be shot down even easier than JRK.

[Teflon]

I'll say this and you see if you can shoot me down - your list proves you need top end talent to win flags does it not?
Thank you for your help in making my point
Actually, that wasn't my point my point was of course the order of a selection come draft time is important and again through another bad example of yours with the Riewoldt v Sellwood scenario I have proven this.

Look you've been outplayed - man up and I might have some respect for you but this constant whinging and arguing side issues that aren't even the basis of the discussion is boorish (it's fun playing I admit) but getting boorish
Why are you so paranoid of mods all the time?? Could that be because many posters have gone to mods demanding this childish tactic you employ be stopped? If that's the case .... then one of us does need a mirror but I do t think that's me...
Anyway , meh ! to it all I have a Probis meeting to get to
Ciao!!

[Eastern]

f*** me dead

No Thanks, but thanks for the offer !!

[plugger66]

I'll say this and you see if you can shoot me down - your list proves you need top end talent to win flags does it not?
Thank you for your help in making my point
Actually, that wasn't my point my point was of course the order of a selection come draft time is important and again through another bad example of yours with the Riewoldt v Sellwood scenario I have proven this.

Look you've been outplayed - man up and I might have some respect for you but this constant whinging and arguing side issues that aren't even the basis of the discussion is boorish (it's fun playing I admit) but getting boorish
Why are you so paranoid of mods all the time?? Could that be because many posters have gone to mods demanding this childish tactic you employ be stopped? If that's the case .... then one of us does need a mirror but I do t think that's me...
Anyway , meh ! to it all I have a Probis meeting to get to
Ciao!!

And if you speak sensibly I will answer sensibly. Yes of course you need top end talent. Not once have I or probably anyone else said you don't. The point I will continue to make is how much top end talent do you need? When is the right time to go back up the ladder? What my list proves is there is no right time. Some sides have many top 5 picks and are doing no good and some have bugger all and have won flags. You said Port wasn't down long enough but fail to address that the last 7 flag winners were down less time than them.

When is our right time to win? When will you care if they win? These are the unknowns and that is why I don't care about losing now because all facts in the last 30 years of the draft show that there is no set amount of top 5 picks needed before you can win a flag. In 2008 we had 23% of our players as top 5 picks and Geelong had less than 5%. This year Melbourne have 4 top 5 picks and Hawthorn have 2.

Do you really need to say you outplayed me Teffers? Is it that important to you? sadly you are just embarrassing yourself with statements like that. Im not going to tell the world I outplayed you because all they have to do is read the facts to see that. I don't lack the confidence you obviously do for the need to say that. Pity. I thought you maybe stronger than that. And the need to copy something I said. This time the mirror. They say I should be flattered. Im not I just feel sorry for you that originality and football knowledge isn't a strong point. I hope a Probis meeting is or god help them.

[Teflon]

Plugged let's get semi serious for a nano second
Where SHOW me where I have stated a side requires "x" amount of top 5 draft picks before it can compete??????
Put up???
You continually fabricate what isn't said to manufacture an argument that no ones having bar you and this is where I suspect you land yourself in trouble with so many posters - the mirror really is a good analogy and you ought to think about the FACTS that many here have raised your constant tactics with mods. When do you learn???
By the way, again there is no prescribed time limit on when a side rises from the depth but most sides go through that cycle and IMO Port is a good example of over achieving to quickly without the basis (see KPP depth) to sustain it (that's an opinion.... you'll need to look that word up).
The rest of your post is nonsense so excuse me if I don't bother replying to it.
Yours sincerely,
Teflon

[plugger66]

Plugged let's get semi serious for a nano second
Where SHOW me where I have stated a side requires "x" amount of top 5 draft picks before it can compete??????
Put up???
You continually fabricate what isn't said to manufacture an argument that no ones having bar you and this is where I suspect you land yourself in trouble with so many posters - the mirror really is a good analogy and you ought to think about the FACTS that many here have raised your constant tactics with mods. When do you learn???
By the way, again there is no prescribed time limit on when a side rises from the depth but most sides go through that cycle and IMO Port is a good example of over achieving to quickly without the basis (see KPP depth) to sustain it (that's an opinion.... you'll need to look that word up).
The rest of your post is nonsense so excuse me if I don't bother replying to it.
Yours sincerely,
Teflon

I never said you did say that you need a certain amount of top 5 players. My point about not wanting to win is I cant work out when we decide we want to win and that is why I keep mentioning Port. You said they weren't down long enough but every flag winner since 2008 have been down for less time.

Just like you not buying wins this year I don't buy that we have to basically fail for the next 2 years and basically meh every game we play in that time. We will get up the ladder because of the other picks as well as top 5 picks. 80 to 90% of your players in a premiership side are outside the top 5 and that is fact. We have 3 top 5 picks. We will have at least 2 in about 3 years. The same as the hawks now and more that Sydney or Geelong ever had. 2 less than the pies. Geelong beat us with one top 5 pick when we had 5.

I want to win as many games as we can every year but some years like last year this year and probably the next we will only be capable of winning up to 6 games. Does that stop me wanting to beat the Hawks? Not a hope. Will I be upset if we lose to the Hawks. Not a hope, well not a day later anyway. I see no correlation between being down the bottom for long periods and winning flags. Surely the last 7 flags proves that.

[ace]

We must not win or draw. (I can't express it the other way).
Melbourne will not win another 2 games after this weekend.
This is our only chance to force them above us on the ladder.

There are plenty of guys going around at Sandy who need to be tried out before seasons end.
Riewoldt clearly needs time to repair his calf muscle.
I am sure Armitage, Steven and Montagna are carrying injuries that need a one week break as well.
Josh Bruce and McCartin need to tried out in defence.
Dempster and Sam Smith would make a potent forward line capable of kicking multiple behinds.
Jack Watts needs to watched carefully.
He should attract at least 6 defenders at all times.
Those defenders opponents aren't that dangerous, they probably can't kick 40 goals between them in a game together.

[saynta]

We must not win or draw. (I can't express it the other way).
Melbourne will not win another 2 games after this weekend.
This is our only chance to force them above us on the ladder.

There are plenty of guys going around at Sandy who need to be tried out before seasons end.
Riewoldt clearly needs time to repair his calf muscle.
I am sure Armitage, Steven and Montagna are carrying injuries that need a one week break as well.
Josh Bruce and McCartin need to tried out in defence.
Dempster and Sam Smith would make a potent forward line capable of kicking multiple behinds.
Jack Watts needs to watched carefully.
He should attract at least 6 defenders at all times.
Those defenders opponents aren't that dangerous, they probably can't kick 40 goals between them in a game together.

Who is Sam Smith?

[borderbarry]

Someone asked, 'When is the right time to win?" talking about a premiership. Well in my case it needs to be soon. I am 75 now, and in a few years (if I am still here) I may not understand what has happened. Just ask my wife. She thinks I dont understand anything now.

[Dis Believer]

All the blathering is irrelevant. We will probably end up with a pick around 5.

Everything else is just white noise............

[plugger66]

All the blathering is irrelevant. We will probably end up with a pick around 5.

Everything else is just white noise............

Yep. Agreed.

[saynta]

Someone asked, 'When is the right time to win?" talking about a premiership. Well in my case it needs to be soon. I am 75 now, and in a few years (if I am still here) I may not understand what has happened. Just ask my wife. She thinks I dont understand anything now.

I wonder if our wives are related.

[Teflon]

Plugged let's get semi serious for a nano second
Where SHOW me where I have stated a side requires "x" amount of top 5 draft picks before it can compete??????
Put up???
You continually fabricate what isn't said to manufacture an argument that no ones having bar you and this is where I suspect you land yourself in trouble with so many posters - the mirror really is a good analogy and you ought to think about the FACTS that many here have raised your constant tactics with mods. When do you learn???
By the way, again there is no prescribed time limit on when a side rises from the depth but most sides go through that cycle and IMO Port is a good example of over achieving to quickly without the basis (see KPP depth) to sustain it (that's an opinion.... you'll need to look that word up).
The rest of your post is nonsense so excuse me if I don't bother replying to it.
Yours sincerely,
Teflon

I never said you did say that you need a certain amount of top 5 players. My point about not wanting to win is I cant work out when we decide we want to win and that is why I keep mentioning Port. You said they weren't down long enough but every flag winner since 2008 have been down for less time.

Just like you not buying wins this year I don't buy that we have to basically fail for the next 2 years and basically meh every game we play in that time. We will get up the ladder because of the other picks as well as top 5 picks. 80 to 90% of your players in a premiership side are outside the top 5 and that is fact. We have 3 top 5 picks. We will have at least 2 in about 3 years. The same as the hawks now and more that Sydney or Geelong ever had. 2 less than the pies. Geelong beat us with one top 5 pick when we had 5.

I want to win as many games as we can every year but some years like last year this year and probably the next we will only be capable of winning up to 6 games. Does that stop me wanting to beat the Hawks? Not a hope. Will I be upset if we lose to the Hawks. Not a hope, well not a day later anyway. I see no correlation between being down the bottom for long periods and winning flags. Surely the last 7 flags proves that.

It has nothing to do with being down the bottom for an extended period - again no one has said that so why mention this at all?
Comparing Ports rise to all other flag winners since 2008 is useless - Port won flags in 04 while while Pies and others were down before that, besides after Ports sustained period of success everyone expected their fall to last and be Melb like FACTS are that hasn't happened and Port have risen faster than Blues, Dees and probably Tigers truth be told but in reality they now look a little light in in quality KPP stakes and we all know you don't win flags without a decent spine. I don't want that same mistake so unlike you I am not interested in winning next 8 oly to have a false dawn papering over cracks in a side who last week I saw couldn't compete for 3 qtrs and whose best players are all retiring in 3 years.
I will take a hit now and in reality for next 2 years - not because that's a magical timeframe to do so (that's your version), but because we are ordinary and need too end quality depth badly.

[matrix]

f*** me dead i can understand my cats typing/grammar easier

If you're going to criticize grammar, it's "cat's" or "cats'" depending on how many cats you have.

If you notice I have never used a ' in any post
Never have never will (unless I'm posting on the phone and it auto corrects)
Sure I get the odd spelling balls up but at least u can pretty much understand what I mean by reading the post.

Pluggs on the other hand has this 'moment' every now and then when he posts that kind of make you say to yourself


Wtf? That doesn't even make sense.


And yes
I'm posting on a phone.

[matrix]

f*** me dead i can understand my cats typing/grammar easier

If you're going to criticize grammar, it's "cat's" or "cats'" depending on how many cats you have.

If you notice I have never used a ' in any post
Never have never will (unless I'm posting on the phone and it auto corrects)
Sure I get the odd spelling balls up but at least u can pretty much understand what I mean by reading the post.

Pluggs on the other hand has this 'moment' every now and then when he posts that kind of make you say to yourself


Wtf? That doesn't even make sense.


And yes
I'm posting on a phone.

[plugger66]

f*** me dead i can understand my cats typing/grammar easier

If you're going to criticize grammar, it's "cat's" or "cats'" depending on how many cats you have.

If you notice I have never used a ' in any post
Never have never will (unless I'm posting on the phone and it auto corrects)
Sure I get the odd spelling balls up but at least u can pretty much understand what I mean by reading the post.

Pluggs on the other hand has this 'moment' every now and then when he posts that kind of make you say to yourself


Wtf? That doesn't even make sense.


And yes
I'm posting on a phone.

Probably because I couldn't give a stuff what people think of my spelling and typing. If they don't understand it then meh.

[plugger66]

Plugged let's get semi serious for a nano second
Where SHOW me where I have stated a side requires "x" amount of top 5 draft picks before it can compete??????
Put up???
You continually fabricate what isn't said to manufacture an argument that no ones having bar you and this is where I suspect you land yourself in trouble with so many posters - the mirror really is a good analogy and you ought to think about the FACTS that many here have raised your constant tactics with mods. When do you learn???
By the way, again there is no prescribed time limit on when a side rises from the depth but most sides go through that cycle and IMO Port is a good example of over achieving to quickly without the basis (see KPP depth) to sustain it (that's an opinion.... you'll need to look that word up).
The rest of your post is nonsense so excuse me if I don't bother replying to it.
Yours sincerely,
Teflon

I never said you did say that you need a certain amount of top 5 players. My point about not wanting to win is I cant work out when we decide we want to win and that is why I keep mentioning Port. You said they weren't down long enough but every flag winner since 2008 have been down for less time.

Just like you not buying wins this year I don't buy that we have to basically fail for the next 2 years and basically meh every game we play in that time. We will get up the ladder because of the other picks as well as top 5 picks. 80 to 90% of your players in a premiership side are outside the top 5 and that is fact. We have 3 top 5 picks. We will have at least 2 in about 3 years. The same as the hawks now and more that Sydney or Geelong ever had. 2 less than the pies. Geelong beat us with one top 5 pick when we had 5.

I want to win as many games as we can every year but some years like last year this year and probably the next we will only be capable of winning up to 6 games. Does that stop me wanting to beat the Hawks? Not a hope. Will I be upset if we lose to the Hawks. Not a hope, well not a day later anyway. I see no correlation between being down the bottom for long periods and winning flags. Surely the last 7 flags proves that.

It has nothing to do with being down the bottom for an extended period - again no one has said that so why mention this at all?
Comparing Ports rise to all other flag winners since 2008 is useless - Port won flags in 04 while while Pies and others were down before that, besides after Ports sustained period of success everyone expected their fall to last and be Melb like FACTS are that hasn't happened and Port have risen faster than Blues, Dees and probably Tigers truth be told but in reality they now look a little light in in quality KPP stakes and we all know you don't win flags without a decent spine. I don't want that same mistake so unlike you I am not interested in winning next 8 oly to have a false dawn papering over cracks in a side who last week I saw couldn't compete for 3 qtrs and whose best players are all retiring in 3 years.
I will take a hit now and in reality for next 2 years - not because that's a magical timeframe to do so (that's your version), but because we are ordinary and need too end quality depth badly.

Still think you must have a time frame. Im sure when the Demons got certain players they thought they had a decent spine. We basically are still a KP back short and no proof that we have KP forwards yet that will do the job into the future so do we hopefully stay down until we get more KPP and what then happens if they don't work out. Without mentioning timeframes there is obviously timeframes based on what you are saying. And I don't get your point about Port and when they won the flag. The point is they were down lunger recently than any of the last 7 falg winners.

My point is there is no magical fix even if you lose. The difference between pick 5 and pick 7 is hardly worth losing games for especially as you don't know the result of the losses for probably 3 years. And who says there is a tomorrow anyway. Some older people have been waiting for a flag since 1966. I don't think they need or hope or don't care about losing games now for something they may never see. Flags aren't a common thing at the Saints.