Nick

[Con Gorozidis]

Stoopid AFL !

Don't understand the moron mentality that boos , but don't think the AFL should endorse provocative actions towards the crowd !
Afterall they did nothing to stop the shite that Milne copt each week .

If a player is abused from the crowd turns and gives them the bird or tells em to get far away . An umpire or a camera see's or hears it , they are hauled over the coals and given a fine .
But jetta's actions are fine cos he's sticking up for his mate goodes .
Jetta should become the swans enforcer !

MRP " Why did you punch out that player Lewis ? "

Jetta " cos he booed adam ! " ,

MRP " Sorry , charge withdrawn "

I am seriously not following this train of thought. Is it a train or an off rail caboose because it has no logical thread.

[Con Gorozidis]

Morons boo Nick. For Adam Goodes, it's morons plus racists, which is why it is louder.

Absolutely.

Ask people which players they hate the most and a lot would say H. Lamumba and A. Goodes. Sad for Australia.

Yep.
I am also 99% sure people are saying 'Rooooo.'

Hawks fans do it for "Breuuuset' as do a couple of other clubs.

[Austinnn]

As for the dance:

Aboriginal round in the AFL, a sporting competition. He'd just scored a goal. Again, it was Aboriginal round. He is aboriginal. It's a dance created by an aboriginal group of kids he'd just met.

Would it be OK if it it was an aboriginal cooking dance?
It's a contact sport, a fierce competition. A war dance isn't appropriate? I don't actually think he was declaring war on the Carlton Blues.

Even if he DID knowilgly use it as a 'politcal tool' I'd say that the fact that we are still discussing it vindicates entirely his doing it in the first place. White Australia needs to have a hard look in the mirror.

[Bunk_Moreland]

If it is racism then why doesn't Rioli, Franklin, Jetta, Burgoyne, Ryder etc get booed?

The number of times I've heard that!

All nice aboriginal players who don't try and upset the status quo. They play the game. They don't put on airs. Nothing white society hates more than outspoken black people.

Goodes may or may not be a c**k, i dont know him personally. I wouldn't presume to know his mind but I would guess he meant that girl was a perfect example of how racism is transferred to an innocent generation, and fostered in a crowd of acceptance, occasionally creating conflict which magnifies the hatred. Not that a young girl is a figurehead for racism. In short id imagine he thought if her as a symptom rather than a cause. I remember thst at at the time he said he was used to copping racist sledging from adults but it shocked him to see an innocent child repeating and extending them. He saw that as the problem.

But he's old enough to defend his own words. He isn't a bully though, and I believe he even apologised to the girl afterwards for all the attention his actions brought on her. Personally I can see his point. I used to say lots of silly s*** when I was young and didn't understand why it was wrong. Granted I never shouted it safe and sound in a crowd at one person who I my parents had paid for me to be entertained by, but still...

I don't have a problem with him using AFL to get across his political message, only because it is such a huge part of our game. If it was a more removed message like opposing regimes in N Korea or so on, I'd be less accepting. Let's not pretend that it's just an abstract message totally removed from the sport. There were people yelling APE at a black footy player and an established star of the game, well into the second decade of the 21st century. Just think about how backwards that is.

I can't have a chat with you face to face Bunk, not unless you wanna come back to Europe, but I'm always happy to talk about it over some other medium if you can be bothered. Im willing to listen, just just speak.

Like the Jiggster, I'd prefer to focus on supporting our players than booing other teams'. But everyone's got their own life to live.

No point talking to the righteous moralists who think they have the high ground on this subject.

So Goodes "regretted" dragging a 13 y.o. girl through the mud nationally to further his political stance.

I was sicken by his abject bullying. Not on the night, he had the perfect right to point out what he though was a racist comment.

But to consider his response overnight, knowing full well the person was a young girl and then proclaiming she was "the face of racism" was totally bullying of a child.

I dont care if the person is black brown, or brindal, I wont cop powerful adults bullying young ignorant powerless children.

Others might think it is fine, but you will never convince me.

And I have a HUGE problem with anyone using the AFL for their political soapbox. Would Bacher Houli get the same support if he used the AFL to advocate Islam?

Bugger off from the game and go into politics. It is not Goodes game, its not yours our mine, it is the peoples game and it is not some self entitled egotists pulpit.

I would not boo Goodes, I need to respect a person before I would waste my energy on a low life like Goodes. He has shown to have a glass jaw, can bully but cant take it and uses the race card for him being a c**k.

I wont miss his deviseness and wedge driving antics when he retires and I hope it is this year.

[Bunk_Moreland]

As for the dance:

Aboriginal round in the AFL, a sporting competition. He'd just scored a goal. Again, it was Aboriginal round. He is aboriginal. It's a dance created by an aboriginal group of kids he'd just met.

Would it be OK if it it was an aboriginal cooking dance?
It's a contact sport, a fierce competition. A war dance isn't appropriate? I don't actually think he was declaring war on the Carlton Blues.

The fact that we are still discussing it vindicates entirely his doing it in the first place. White Australia needs to have a hard look in the mirror.

It is designed to imitate violence, thats what war is about.

Dont know what part of Europe you are from, but people have died because of players inciting violence from the crowd with gestures like this.

I was in Krakow and the two teams there graffiti the walls of the city with hatefilled racist slogans because before the war one of the team had Jews in it. They now put a line through the star of david on the graffiti.

This is the slippery slope to this type of violence. But apparently the AFl endorses it.

Would have been nice for the AFL to have asked other club supporters to stop calling Milne a rapist, but that didn't matter I suppose, you know, he isn't as worthy of protection as Goodes.

[Austinnn]

Is Islam a big part of AFL? How many Muslim players are there in footy? Has there been historic abuse of Muslims at the footy? Maybe not Houli, but perhaps in a generation's time we might see a Muslim player react to the prejudice they cop daily.

and what the f*** is Brindal?

Still, I disagree with you, you disagree with me. I doubt you'd ever convince me that he bullied anyone. I don't know if I think I've got high ground, just a different point of view. That is me expressing it, just as you do.

I think that Goodes probably will retire this year, and who knows he might even go into politics. Then we could all enjoy our footy in peace until some other loudmouth player tries to start trying to change things. Let's hope the next time it happens it can be the perfect silent one-off response employed by Nicky Winmar. Sadly Nicky was unique.

[Austinnn]

As for the dance:

It is designed to imitate violence, thats what war is about.

Dont know what part of Europe you are from, but people have died because of players inciting violence from the crowd with gestures like this.

I was in Krakow and the two teams there graffiti the walls of the city with hatefilled racist slogans because before the war one of the team had Jews in it. They now put a line through the star of david on the graffiti.

This is the slippery slope to this type of violence. But apparently the AFl endorses it.

Would have been nice for the AFL to have asked other club supporters to stop calling Milne a rapist, but that didn't matter I suppose, you know, he isn't as worthy of protection as Goodes.

I see your point, but I disagree with it. Vastly different context. Do you imagine anyone in Modern Australia will die because of Adam Goodes performing a war dance on a football field during Aboriginal Round? If that's the case you could say that the AFL were negligent in having an Aboriginal Round in the first place and Adam Goodes should be in jail. I'm sure that would suit a lot of people.

The Milne case and the Goodes case are entirely different as well. I don't even see how Goodes is being protected by the AFL. Well I think I'll leave it there anyway, leave you to your hate.

[Con Gorozidis]

If it is racism then why doesn't Rioli, Franklin, Jetta, Burgoyne, Ryder etc get booed?

The number of times I've heard that!

All nice aboriginal players who don't try and upset the status quo. They play the game. They don't put on airs. Nothing white society hates more than outspoken black people.

Goodes may or may not be a c**k, i dont know him personally. I wouldn't presume to know his mind but I would guess he meant that girl was a perfect example of how racism is transferred to an innocent generation, and fostered in a crowd of acceptance, occasionally creating conflict which magnifies the hatred. Not that a young girl is a figurehead for racism. In short id imagine he thought if her as a symptom rather than a cause. I remember thst at at the time he said he was used to copping racist sledging from adults but it shocked him to see an innocent child repeating and extending them. He saw that as the problem.

But he's old enough to defend his own words. He isn't a bully though, and I believe he even apologised to the girl afterwards for all the attention his actions brought on her. Personally I can see his point. I used to say lots of silly s*** when I was young and didn't understand why it was wrong. Granted I never shouted it safe and sound in a crowd at one person who I my parents had paid for me to be entertained by, but still...

I don't have a problem with him using AFL to get across his political message, only because it is such a huge part of our game. If it was a more removed message like opposing regimes in N Korea or so on, I'd be less accepting. Let's not pretend that it's just an abstract message totally removed from the sport. There were people yelling APE at a black footy player and an established star of the game, well into the second decade of the 21st century. Just think about how backwards that is.

I can't have a chat with you face to face Bunk, not unless you wanna come back to Europe, but I'm always happy to talk about it over some other medium if you can be bothered. Im willing to listen, just just speak.

Like the Jiggster, I'd prefer to focus on supporting our players than booing other teams'. But everyone's got their own life to live.

No point talking to the righteous moralists who think they have the high ground on this subject.

So Goodes "regretted" dragging a 13 y.o. girl through the mud nationally to further his political stance.

I was sicken by his abject bullying. Not on the night, he had the perfect right to point out what he though was a racist comment.

But to consider his response overnight, knowing full well the person was a young girl and then proclaiming she was "the face of racism" was totally bullying of a child.

I dont care if the person is black brown, or brindal, I wont cop powerful adults bullying young ignorant powerless children.

Others might think it is fine, but you will never convince me.

And I have a HUGE problem with anyone using the AFL for their political soapbox. Would Bacher Houli get the same support if he used the AFL to advocate Islam?

Bugger off from the game and go into politics. It is not Goodes game, its not yours our mine, it is the peoples game and it is not some self entitled egotists pulpit.

I would not boo Goodes, I need to respect a person before I would waste my energy on a low life like Goodes. He has shown to have a glass jaw, can bully but cant take it and uses the race card for him being a c**k.

I wont miss his deviseness and wedge driving antics when he retires and I hope it is this year.

Nothing moral about it.
Just don't be a dick.
Pretty simple.
I am not self righteous at all but people who boo Goodes are just dicks. That's all.

[Con Gorozidis]

As for the dance:

Aboriginal round in the AFL, a sporting competition. He'd just scored a goal. Again, it was Aboriginal round. He is aboriginal. It's a dance created by an aboriginal group of kids he'd just met.

Would it be OK if it it was an aboriginal cooking dance?
It's a contact sport, a fierce competition. A war dance isn't appropriate? I don't actually think he was declaring war on the Carlton Blues.

The fact that we are still discussing it vindicates entirely his doing it in the first place. White Australia needs to have a hard look in the mirror.

It is designed to imitate violence, thats what war is about.

Dont know what part of Europe you are from, but people have died because of players inciting violence from the crowd with gestures like this.

I was in Krakow and the two teams there graffiti the walls of the city with hatefilled racist slogans because before the war one of the team had Jews in it. They now put a line through the star of david on the graffiti.

This is the slippery slope to this type of violence. But apparently the AFl endorses it.

Would have been nice for the AFL to have asked other club supporters to stop calling Milne a rapist, but that didn't matter I suppose, you know, he isn't as worthy of protection as Goodes.

Spare me. have you heard of Godwin's law? You just affirmed it.

But if people went to see the All Blacks play and they DIDNT do a Haka, you would ask for your money back. But this is a massive strawman.
Dont bring up complex and irrelevant arguments about Krakow to try and obfuscate that the booing of Goodes is straight flat out racist in the Australian context. Why? Because people cant handle a black man who is out spoken. They like their black men to come out to the AFL field and perform for the white crowd like a good little circus performer and then be silent until the next game. The fact Goodes sticks up for his people is simply too much for some. Their little white brains just explode. He is Australian of the year. He is a black man standing up for his people. Just dont boo him. Its not that f*cking hard or all that complicated NOT to do something. Just dont do it. Simple.

Now people will sell me all sorts of tales of self justification - but if you dont get why booing Goodes is racist - then you probably dont get why black people in the US dont like white people calling them the N word. If you dont get that, there is no real point engaging in a discussion.

[Austinnn]

It is designed to imitate violence, thats what war is about.

Dont know what part of Europe you are from, but people have died because of players inciting violence from the crowd with gestures like this.

I was in Krakow and the two teams there graffiti the walls of the city with hatefilled racist slogans because before the war one of the team had Jews in it. They now put a line through the star of david on the graffiti.

By the way, thanks for the European lesson. Don't suppose you'd know if there was a Jewish Pride round during the season in the local football league, would you? Probably not a very good idea. Lucky that in Australia, we are able to have an Aboriginal round now. See the difference?

As far as wanting to talk about it face to face, just a response to your challenge.

Anyone willing to call me a racist for typing the above can come up and say it to my face at the football anytime.

Dont expect a passive response.

But for what its worth I don't think you are racist. But one thing no one from this site would expect from you Bunk is a passive response! Sadly that is exactly what you expect from Adam Goodes.

[Griggsy]

Morons boo Nick. For Adam Goodes, it's morons plus racists, which is why it is louder.

Absolutely.

Ask people which players they hate the most and a lot would say H. Lamumba and A. Goodes. Sad for Australia.

And Ballantyne...oh wait I'm not doing it right.

[Austinnn]

You don't have to be black to be hated for being a big head/loud mouth/wanker... But it helps!

OK then, I still stand by my original statement, but how about "Ask anyone which black players they don't like..."

[Grimfang]

I'm a bit confused here.
Booing Goodes (or any player) all game long is just mindless and pathetic.
It seems though that the call is you can't boo him at all.
If he whacks one of ours, stooges a BS free or gets away with something that every other player in the league would be pinged for, then you aren't allowed to boo him like you would any other player?
That seems ridiculous.

[plugger66]

Morons boo Nick. For Adam Goodes, it's morons plus racists, which is why it is louder.

Absolutely.

Ask people which players they hate the most and a lot would say H. Lamumba and A. Goodes. Sad for Australia.

And Ballantyne...oh wait I'm not doing it right.

You really aren't comparing the booing. That is the problem. No one has even been booed like Goodes. There isn't even a close comparison.

[SaintPav]

Let's just stick to what happened on Sunday.

I think it was a bit more than a little booing; it was more like outright intimidation and it was ugly and way over the top.

There also would have been abusive comments which we don't know about.

West Coast even condemned the behaviour of the crowd.

They were a friggin disgrace and they have form.

Just maybe we haven't come that far since April 1993.

And anyone who is offended by the dance, I really have no comment.....Jetta sticking up for his mate and good on him for doing it.

[spert]

Goodes is a champion player nearing the end of his career, same as Nick. I would like our coach or even Roo as our leader to publicly say- let's cheer Goodes this round, let's do it for indigenous players and for the good of the game. Jetta's dance was not a problem with me, and I would like to see us recruit more indigenous players.

[mullet]

If it is racism then why doesn't Rioli, Franklin, Jetta, Burgoyne, Ryder etc get booed?

The number of times I've heard that!

All nice aboriginal players who don't try and upset the status quo. They play the game. They don't put on airs. Nothing white society hates more than outspoken black people.

Goodes may or may not be a c**k, i dont know him personally. I wouldn't presume to know his mind but I would guess he meant that girl was a perfect example of how racism is transferred to an innocent generation, and fostered in a crowd of acceptance, occasionally creating conflict which magnifies the hatred. Not that a young girl is a figurehead for racism. In short id imagine he thought if her as a symptom rather than a cause. I remember thst at at the time he said he was used to copping racist sledging from adults but it shocked him to see an innocent child repeating and extending them. He saw that as the problem.

But he's old enough to defend his own words. He isn't a bully though, and I believe he even apologised to the girl afterwards for all the attention his actions brought on her. Personally I can see his point. I used to say lots of silly s*** when I was young and didn't understand why it was wrong. Granted I never shouted it safe and sound in a crowd at one person who I my parents had paid for me to be entertained by, but still...

I don't have a problem with him using AFL to get across his political message, only because it is such a huge part of our game. If it was a more removed message like opposing regimes in N Korea or so on, I'd be less accepting. Let's not pretend that it's just an abstract message totally removed from the sport. There were people yelling APE at a black footy player and an established star of the game, well into the second decade of the 21st century. Just think about how backwards that is.

I can't have a chat with you face to face Bunk, not unless you wanna come back to Europe, but I'm always happy to talk about it over some other medium if you can be bothered. Im willing to listen, just just speak.

Like the Jiggster, I'd prefer to focus on supporting our players than booing other teams'. But everyone's got their own life to live.

I find your post so offensive. How dare you put all white people in that category. And your comment about being "nice" aborigines in itself is so racist and insulting to those players.

[markp]

Goodes is a champion player nearing the end of his career, same as Nick. I would like our coach or even Roo as our leader to publicly say- let's cheer Goodes this round, let's do it for indigenous players and for the good of the game. Jetta's dance was not a problem with me, and I would like to see us recruit more indigenous players.

I think that would be fine.

I've never booed goodes and wouldn't (the only player I remember booing regularly was Buckley), but to label all the booing and all those booing as racist is absurd.

Nevermind it's been done now and within a couple of weeks it'll be an ejectable offence to boo goodes, because it looks bad on tv for the afl product, and journos who've never been to a game have declared it has only ever happened to goodes and it's entirely racist.

No doubt some of it is, how much is impossible to say, but l think the rest resent the idea that they cant boo a figjam because some may be booing for that reason.

And if I'm wrong and they're all racist, then god help us.

[amusingname]

Let's just stick to what happened on Sunday.

I think it was a bit more than a little booing; it was more like outright intimidation and it was ugly and way over the top.

There also would have been abusive comments which we don't know about.

West Coast even condemned the behaviour of the crowd.

They were a friggin disgrace and they have form.

Just maybe we haven't come that far since April 1993.

And anyone who is offended by the dance, I really have no comment.....Jetta sticking up for his mate and good on him for doing it.

I agree Pav, watching the second half and speaking to a Eagles supporting mate in Perth, it was not just every time he got the ball, it was when he was looking like getting it or being near a contest that he copped it. Over the top and pack mentality at its worst. As Gerard Whateley said, some people might be booing because they think that he dives or elbowed one of their players in 2005 and they remember that, but by joining in the boo's you are just giving voice to the people who do it because he is an outspoken aboriginal who should 'know his place and shut up'.

[thejiggingsaint]

Our club, and our supporters have a golden opportunity, come round 22 to provide some closure to this unsavoury issue, by NOT booing, and by simply getting behind OUR team. There is a chance to conduct ourselves with dignity and reason (without surrendering our passion for the Saints cause) and to provide some grounds for reconciliation between Goodes and the AFL public.

[Bunk_Moreland]

You don't have to be black to be hated for being a big head/loud mouth/wanker... But it helps!

I have no doubt that some people uses Goodes race to vent their spleen.

It is just the mindhive groupthink orthodoxy of some who just labels anyone a racist who doesn't respect Goodes.

OK then, I still stand by my original statement, but how about "Ask anyone which black players they don't like..."

Don't understand this. What has race got to do with it. Cant stand Jack Watts because he is a soft you know what.

Love Adam Goodes as a footballer as he is an out an out champion.

I object to his political grandstanding using a 13 y.o. girl as a platform and using the game of AFL as his personal soapbox.

But hey most people don't want to separate the two, do they, just scream RACIST, howl down any rational debate.

By the actions of the commatariate and the groupthink weakminded apparatchiks and dissenting views are abused and the whole thing just turned into a slanging match.

And Con, you obviously don't even understand what Godwin's law is. This has nothing to do with extreme right national socialism, if you want to make a comparision, it is more like Stalinist groupthink orthodoxy.

Send any dissident to the gulag for crimes against the state for alternate opinion has been a reality in the past.

Not saying this is anything like that, however the shutting down of any argument against the prevailing orthodoxy by building the predomininate straw man of racism is on show for all to see.

[perfectionist]

...And if I'm wrong and they're all racist, then god help us.

Mark, we were all born to raised as racist. It's in all of human learnings, perhaps even in our genes. And for good reason. For most of human history (say the last 100,000 years), we needed to fear "others", even if they were just on the other side of the hill and looked and sounded just like us. Because, for most of history, survival depended on getting a greater share of limited food and shelter. Those rare societies, for whom these needs are easily met, found that they could afford to accommodate 'others' in their group. Generally, it has only been in the last 100 years that this has occurred throughout much of the world. The mass migrations to 'new' lands have led the change. Alas, the indigenous populations were rarely consulted or included.

When you look at young children play, it is obvious that they are 'colour' blind. This is not to say that they are selfless. In fact, for most people, they grow out of this complete selfishness of the early years into a more sharing and considerate person. Of course, some never grow up.

Our journey as humans, in a time of plenty in the developed world, where we need to limit our food intake rather than scramble for it, is to become less racist, less afraid of others, and more willing to accommodate difference whilst still being wary of exploitation. This can be tricky. Those who will never have enough (the exceptionally greedy) won't do this and will, without conscience, exploit the fears of the ignorant (those who refuse to learn) for their own benefit.

I have never met anybody who is 100% non racist, and that includes me. We all have our moments when confronted with difference, even if only in our thoughts. This can occur at home or away, although in the case of the latter, the boot can be on the other foot - a very good reason for making such journeys. Once we own up to that, then we can make change, even if it just extends to not booing at the football.

[Dis Believer]

Is this post a joke?

People are saying 'Rooooooooo'.

And for anyone who boos Goodes. You are racist. Plain and simple. Dont give me any of your cr*p excuses like 'oh i am no racist but i boo him because he dived for a free in 2004' etc etc etc.

And 'other indigenous players' dont get booed because they now their 'place' in white society. Goodes gets booed because he dares to be asked to be listened to, even, if just for a moment. Is that too much to ask?

If a black man is bold and dares to even slightly stick his head up or go against the grain just a little, old whitie's head just explodes doesn't it.

What a pile of bulls***.......

No-one has any place, nor an expectation that anyone "remember their place". They do have a limited patience for any colour of flog though. And especially a flog that chooses to use the exalted position of AoTY as a platform to berate white Australians (despite being more than 50% white himself - wonder how THAT parent feels), at every opportunity for actions that occurred 200 years ago. Instead he could have used the position as an unparallelled opportunity to try and unite our community more closely than ever - fat chance, he would rather bully children to "denounce racism".

[thejiggingsaint]

I've said just about all I want to say on this subject, and will simply put my words into action come round 22.

[Bunk_Moreland]

Our club, and our supporters have a golden opportunity, come round 22 to provide some closure to this unsavoury issue, by NOT booing, and by simply getting behind OUR team. There is a chance to conduct ourselves with dignity and reason (without surrendering our passion for the Saints cause) and to provide some grounds for reconciliation between Goodes and the AFL public.

Will I be escorted from the ground if I criticise Goodes in any way Dave? What if I call out to Goodes that he is a diving prima donna and he construes that as racist? Can I yell at the football anymore.

This sound factuous and ridiculous, as it should, but Paul Roos last night emphatically stated that Goodes thought crowd reaction was racist so THEREFORE IT IS RACIST.

So Goodes hears my call him a weak bastard for staging for a free and deems that racist. Using Roos logic I have just racially vilified Goodes. I am then escorted from the ground, with my face plastered all over TV and probably on the pages of the Hun the next day. I am vilified by the community and it could even possibly even put my employment at jeopardy.

This is what the groupthink extremism of the argument has come to. The above is an extremely unlikely scenario, as I would even be bothered acknowledging someone I have scant respect for as a person.

So now the straw man argument has been built by me. Do we have to sit there in silence at the football because anything said (using the Paul Roos rule of course) IS RACIST if deemed so by the player?

Personally I think booing Goodes is childish. I hate champions being booed. It grates me the disrespect Riewoldt gets from opposition crowds. I really dislike our crowds booing bj. However I believe that Goodes has brought a lot of this on himself with his bullying, and attack on Australians from the bully pulpit of AotY and then he aggressive "war dance" (made up by a bunch of aboriginal kids Goodes met BTW) and his general self entitled big headed demeanor.

I have formed the opinion that the guy is an ordinary person who is a bully. Champion footballer though.