Pelchen

[BigMart]

Anyone who listened to him this morning on SEN surely realises he was no genius.

Painful to listen to, not insightful whatsoever ... He just regurgitated the same obvious crap

A snake oil salesman who got found out

We gave him the arse because he was an interference

[Spinner]

Anyone who listened to him this morning on SEN surely realises he was no genius.

Painful to listen to, not insightful whatsoever ... He just regurgitated the same obvious crap

A snake oil salesman who got found out

We gave him the arse because he was an interference

You're back?

[satchmo]

Anyone who listened to him this morning on SEN surely realises he was no genius.

Painful to listen to, not insightful whatsoever ... He just regurgitated the same obvious crap

A snake oil salesman who got found out

We gave him the arse because he was an interference

You're back?

Just say Pelchen three times.

[gringo]

I don't think he was the messiah or a snake oil salesman. He set a brave path and backed himself to deliver. We have pretty much said we will continue on it for a while yet. Grabbing Carlisle might actually be jumping early after we got a sniff of success we thought was a bit further off. I reckon guys who won't flex get cut out by spooked boards who want to maximise attendance and membership in the short term. To a board 10 years of almost rans is better than 5 years of rebuild then a premiership sometimes.

[saynta]

Anyone who listened to him this morning on SEN surely realises he was no genius.

Painful to listen to, not insightful whatsoever ... He just regurgitated the same obvious crap

A snake oil salesman who got found out

We gave him the arse because he was an interference

Well, he tried to be. The club wasn't buying it.

[goods]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

[Bluthy]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

Chris? It amazes me the aggro that follows this guy. When you hear him talk there is an arrogance there that I think rubs people the wrong way. But the results speak for themselves. He's been an integral part of configuring two premiership winning dynasties. And you've only got to look at how rejuvenated our club is in a really short time when we looked like a basket case. There is no way we would have had so many high picks and the salary cap space to land big fish without him. And somehow its a fluke that suddenly we are drafting really well even with lower down picks? The constant minimising of his efforts is churlish and naive. It's like blaming the booster rockets for holding you back when they have done what was needed and fall off. You're actually dissing the club for employing him.

I would have loved him to be there for another year or two. This talk of trading down pick 5 is already diverging from the path we were treading patiently but really successfully. I guarantee you Richo wakes up in a sweat at 3.00am sometimes thinking "If we'd kept Goddard, Dal and McEvoy we'd have played finals this year!". You need that cool, calculating, long term view yin to balance out a coaches raging yang of finals fever. I just hope Bains has really adopted Pelicans vision and can take over the long term view role.

[saintsRrising]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

Chris? It amazes me the aggro that follows this guy. When you hear him talk there is an arrogance there that I think rubs people the wrong way. But the results speak for themselves. He's been an integral part of configuring two premiership winning dynasties. And you've only got to look at how rejuvenated our club is in a really short time when we looked like a basket case. There is no way we would have had so many high picks and the salary cap space to land big fish without him. And somehow its a fluke that suddenly we are drafting really well even with lower down picks? The constant minimising of his efforts is churlish and naive. It's like blaming the booster rockets for holding you back when they have done what was needed and fall off. You're actually dissing the club for employing him.

I would have loved him to be there for another year or two. This talk of trading down pick 5 is already diverging from the path we were treading patiently but really successfully. I guarantee you Richo wakes up in a sweat at 3.00am sometimes thinking "If we'd kept Goddard, Dal and McEvoy we'd have played finals this year!". You need that cool, calculating, long term view yin to balance out a coaches raging yang of finals fever. I just hope Bains has really adopted Pelicans vision and can take over the long term view role.

Fully agree with both your posts.

People have quickly forgotten how bad we were at recruiting for so long. Off-field we were a basket case and probably the AFL's worst.

Pelchen kicked us up the arse and changed our from"gut-feel" to a science. Now yes he was given more money but he broaght in not just better talent spotting, but getting players STRATEGICALLY and over time.

YES it took a bit of time to turn around as the recruiting team when he started was inept, and so it is wrong to expect great results from his first year.

There is no doubt he is the architect of what we are now doing. And like an architect you do not need to keep him around for ever. His strentgh is HOW things are done rather than the actual talent spotting (that is what you get others to). To havea strategy of assembling a core of players to develop togetaher intoa new finals team is his hallmark.

But having re-shaped things he also did himself out of a job.

We now have a first class recriting department, a logical, strategic and smart team and anyone that thinks that Pelchen is not a big reason for this is kidding themselves.

Yes he has upset some with his deals. But you have to break eggs sometimes. And that cake he started to bake is now looking to be very very good.

Those that bitch and moan about him would probably be more content is we just kept slowly getting worse with BJ and Dal still playing fo us. Yes we would have won a few more games, but the end resul would have been bad for a lot lot longer.

[BigMart]

Believe he was 'integral'

You'll believe anything

Choco Williams, PHIL Walsh, Warren Tredrea and Kane/Chad Cornes were integral. As was Clarksom, Dunstall, franklin and Roughead (who were selected by Gary Buckenara)

Both those clubs would have succeeded with or without Pelchen. His big weapon... Get rid of stars and Go to the draft... Wow ... That's rocket science

Geelong, Sydney didn't do that...

He did let guns go at StK

Goddard for Hickey
Dal Santo for Longer
Stanley for Goddard
McEvoy for Acres and Savage

Has that all worked out?

Can't be sure yet?

Goddard looks likely if he can build his running power. Acres is still the biggest what if.
Both ruckman are average at best

[Bluthy]

Believe he was 'integral'

You'll believe anything

Choco Williams, PHIL Walsh, Warren Tredrea and Kane/Chad Cornes were integral. As was Clarksom, Dunstall, franklin and Roughead (who were selected by Gary Buckenara)

Both those clubs would have succeeded with or without Pelchen. His big weapon... Get rid of stars and Go to the draft... Wow ... That's rocket science

Geelong, Sydney didn't do that...

He did let guns go at StK

Goddard for Hickey
Dal Santo for Longer
Stanley for Goddard
McEvoy for Acres and Savage

Has that all worked out?

Can't be sure yet?

Goddard looks likely if he can build his running power. Acres is still the biggest what if.
Both ruckman are average at best

Another weird extreme reaction. You obviously can't see what we're building - we're getting in players with skills and x-factor who have real definition in their roles to be part of a clever, skillful system:

Billings - great kicking, hugely creative
MccArtin - power fwd - good kicking, versatile
Goddard - huge athletic good marking back who kicks extremely well for a big unit
Lonie - great kick, creative.
Sinclair - great kick, ice cool
Dunstan - damn tough genuine inside mid, goal sneak, needs to work on kicking but I think it will come when he gets a strong tank and stops the wobbly legs
Acres - play maker, will be great mark and creative b goddard type
And rucks - were you one of the ones slagging of McEvoy? Did a huge job on Sandilands and then Nic Nat to be a dual premiership player. The big boys take time. I see great talent in Longer and Hickey - give em a chance.

Not every pick will work but look at all the good kicking and creativity that has come into the team under Pelchens watch. Remind you of other team *cough* Port *cough* hawks. But of course that's just a coincidence.

[dragit]

f*** me…

Bluth-dog & Martron back in town, toe-2-toe

YES!!!

Big shout-out to the internet, this wouldn't be possible without you - cheers.

[Saintly Passion]

Pelchen clearly an important part of framing list strategy but not involved in recruiting at all. Recruiting and list management team in fact where out in place a year before Pelchen arrived so let's not rewrite history

[SainterK]

Beady eyes that look like they're painted on.

Similar to seagulls.

Crows too.

Did I mention I don't like pelicans.

[Bernard Shakey]

Beady eyes that look like they're painted on.

Similar to seagulls.

Crows too.

Did I mention I don't like pelicans.

He's not the best looking bloke going around, but I don't know what that has to do with his ability to do his job!

We are in a much better position for having his input than if we'd just bungled along as usual.

[Wayne42]

Good debate

[satchmo]

Beady eyes that look like they're painted on.

Similar to seagulls.

Crows too.

Did I mention I don't like pelicans.

This is actually the most honest response.

[Linton Lodger]

I'm a fan of the Pelican. Crawford said very early at hawthorn he put up in front of everyone what the premiership team would look like. It mirrors the infamous spreadsheet he has for us. He has a real vision of what the team will look like that will run out on Grand Final day and win and sets that as a base direction for the clubs drafting and trading rather than just haphazardly drafting players and hoping it all comes together. It's categorised by players with good disposal and some real x-factor that can break open games. Billings at 3 seems a classic Pelchen pick. Going with a skinny small fwd at 3 is a huge risk but the sheer brilliance of Billings could win a grannie off his own back. He likes players who have real weaponary rather than just generalised good players.

I suppose once he's finished ruthlessly deconstructiong the club to maximise early picks and created his visionary spreadsheet a lot of his work is done. There is no doubt he rubs people the wrong way but that is often a good thing to challenge coaches who perhaps don't have the pyschological distance to make the cold hard decisions necessary. The success at Port Adelaide and then Hawthorn, with greatly skilled players who can keep the ball and do brilliant things to surprise well drilled team defenses, is proof to me he plays a really important role in building the base for a successful flag tilt. I'm glad he came to St Kilda. He's set us up well.

Agreed. Whatever we paid Pelchen him he deserved more. The fact that he rubs people up the wrong way is probably an asset, would make him a really good & formidable negotiator. McEvoy has been good for Hawthorn, but gee we made them pay for him and we absolutely bent over Brisbane in the Longer deal. On Billings, everyone is in a lather about Bontempelli at the moment. Just wait until we see the best of Billings, Jack's got a fair few more tricks than Bontempelli, he could be anything.

[Linton Lodger]

Believe he was 'integral'

You'll believe anything

Choco Williams, PHIL Walsh, Warren Tredrea and Kane/Chad Cornes were integral. As was Clarksom, Dunstall, franklin and Roughead (who were selected by Gary Buckenara)

Both those clubs would have succeeded with or without Pelchen. His big weapon... Get rid of stars and Go to the draft... Wow ... That's rocket science

Geelong, Sydney didn't do that...

He did let guns go at StK

Goddard for Hickey
Dal Santo for Longer
Stanley for Goddard
McEvoy for Acres and Savage

Has that all worked out?

Can't be sure yet?

Goddard looks likely if he can build his running power. Acres is still the biggest what if.
Both ruckman are average at best

Another weird extreme reaction. You obviously can't see what we're building - we're getting in players with skills and x-factor who have real definition in their roles to be part of a clever, skillful system:

Billings - great kicking, hugely creative
MccArtin - power fwd - good kicking, versatile
Goddard - huge athletic good marking back who kicks extremely well for a big unit
Lonie - great kick, creative.
Sinclair - great kick, ice cool
Dunstan - damn tough genuine inside mid, goal sneak, needs to work on kicking but I think it will come when he gets a strong tank and stops the wobbly legs
Acres - play maker, will be great mark and creative b goddard type
And rucks - were you one of the ones slagging of McEvoy? Did a huge job on Sandilands and then Nic Nat to be a dual premiership player. The big boys take time. I see great talent in Longer and Hickey - give em a chance.

Not every pick will work but look at all the good kicking and creativity that has come into the team under Pelchens watch. Remind you of other team *cough* Port *cough* hawks. But of course that's just a coincidence.

You forget the currently underestimated Brodie Murdoch. I salivate at the prospect of the Longer - Hickey ruck combination.

[saynta]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

Chris? It amazes me the aggro that follows this guy. When you hear him talk there is an arrogance there that I think rubs people the wrong way. But the results speak for themselves. He's been an integral part of configuring two premiership winning dynasties. And you've only got to look at how rejuvenated our club is in a really short time when we looked like a basket case. There is no way we would have had so many high picks and the salary cap space to land big fish without him. And somehow its a fluke that suddenly we are drafting really well even with lower down picks? The constant minimising of his efforts is churlish and naive. It's like blaming the booster rockets for holding you back when they have done what was needed and fall off. You're actually dissing the club for employing him.

I would have loved him to be there for another year or two. This talk of trading down pick 5 is already diverging from the path we were treading patiently but really successfully. I guarantee you Richo wakes up in a sweat at 3.00am sometimes thinking "If we'd kept Goddard, Dal and McEvoy we'd have played finals this year!". You need that cool, calculating, long term view yin to balance out a coaches raging yang of finals fever. I just hope Bains has really adopted Pelicans vision and can take over the long term view role.

Well, at least Ameet doesn't want to sit in the coaches box on game day and have the final say on team selections. It would have been a disaster to keep the pelican , so good riddance.

[ripplug66]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

Chris? It amazes me the aggro that follows this guy. When you hear him talk there is an arrogance there that I think rubs people the wrong way. But the results speak for themselves. He's been an integral part of configuring two premiership winning dynasties. And you've only got to look at how rejuvenated our club is in a really short time when we looked like a basket case. There is no way we would have had so many high picks and the salary cap space to land big fish without him. And somehow its a fluke that suddenly we are drafting really well even with lower down picks? The constant minimising of his efforts is churlish and naive. It's like blaming the booster rockets for holding you back when they have done what was needed and fall off. You're actually dissing the club for employing him.

I would have loved him to be there for another year or two. This talk of trading down pick 5 is already diverging from the path we were treading patiently but really successfully. I guarantee you Richo wakes up in a sweat at 3.00am sometimes thinking "If we'd kept Goddard, Dal and McEvoy we'd have played finals this year!". You need that cool, calculating, long term view yin to balance out a coaches raging yang of finals fever. I just hope Bains has really adopted Pelicans vision and can take over the long term view role.

Well, at least Ameet doesn't want to sit in the coaches box on game day and have the final say on team selections. It would have been a disaster to keep the pelican , so good riddance.

Pelchen certainly had no final say in team selection. He had no say in it.

[saynta]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

Chris? It amazes me the aggro that follows this guy. When you hear him talk there is an arrogance there that I think rubs people the wrong way. But the results speak for themselves. He's been an integral part of configuring two premiership winning dynasties. And you've only got to look at how rejuvenated our club is in a really short time when we looked like a basket case. There is no way we would have had so many high picks and the salary cap space to land big fish without him. And somehow its a fluke that suddenly we are drafting really well even with lower down picks? The constant minimising of his efforts is churlish and naive. It's like blaming the booster rockets for holding you back when they have done what was needed and fall off. You're actually dissing the club for employing him.

I would have loved him to be there for another year or two. This talk of trading down pick 5 is already diverging from the path we were treading patiently but really successfully. I guarantee you Richo wakes up in a sweat at 3.00am sometimes thinking "If we'd kept Goddard, Dal and McEvoy we'd have played finals this year!". You need that cool, calculating, long term view yin to balance out a coaches raging yang of finals fever. I just hope Bains has really adopted Pelicans vision and can take over the long term view role.

Well, at least Ameet doesn't want to sit in the coaches box on game day and have the final say on team selections. It would have been a disaster to keep the pelican , so good riddance.

Pelchen certainly had no final say in team selection. He had no say in it.

Learn to read. I didn't say he did. I said he wanted to have the final say in selection. The club sad no and gave him the arse instead.

[ace]

Bluthy. You are the only person here that gets it. Good post.

Chris? It amazes me the aggro that follows this guy. When you hear him talk there is an arrogance there that I think rubs people the wrong way. But the results speak for themselves. He's been an integral part of configuring two premiership winning dynasties. And you've only got to look at how rejuvenated our club is in a really short time when we looked like a basket case. There is no way we would have had so many high picks and the salary cap space to land big fish without him. And somehow its a fluke that suddenly we are drafting really well even with lower down picks? The constant minimising of his efforts is churlish and naive. It's like blaming the booster rockets for holding you back when they have done what was needed and fall off. You're actually dissing the club for employing him.

I would have loved him to be there for another year or two. This talk of trading down pick 5 is already diverging from the path we were treading patiently but really successfully. I guarantee you Richo wakes up in a sweat at 3.00am sometimes thinking "If we'd kept Goddard, Dal and McEvoy we'd have played finals this year!". You need that cool, calculating, long term view yin to balance out a coaches raging yang of finals fever. I just hope Bains has really adopted Pelicans vision and can take over the long term view role.

Elshaug and Bains know that the real reason St Kilda did not win a premiership was that they overpaid more than 60% of the salary cap to 10 players and had no reserve to recruit experienced guns who would have made the difference.
Players who demand top dollar don't win you premierships, they condemn a whole generation to zero premierships.
Supporters see these players as heroes, list managers know them to be villains.

[gringo]

At the end of the day we needed to make big calls and cut back and do it properly to avoid becoming a mediocre team for the short term until the older stars retired. Then we would have naturally dropped off a cliff. We had to get a %$#@ in to make the hard calls. I think the way his system works is really hard to sell to a board who need to turn things around quickly or risk looking s*** on their watch. Going to a board and saying we need 5 years at the bottom to come back up isn't an easy task. He did the strategic plan we are still on. the club has said he did the plan we don't need him there to administer it. Not he was wrong and we are doing it all differently.