Turnover Kings

[The Fireman]

If ya get plenty of the pill your error probability is increased.

[saintsRrising]

I think any future Saints jumpers should have a target on the chest. Turnovers to me anyway are just plain bad football, the worst of all, not a learning experience, and those who persist in bad footy go to the VFL to straighten out their faults. Ruthless, but I would rather win close games now than wait for years for some miracle cure when current coaches and players have moved on...it's an easy cop out.

[BigMart]

So Webster has never kicked it to the opposition from a stop play?
Because I've seen him do it a number of times... He can hit a difficult pass well, or can miss it completely. He's a guy who can be damaging with the ball (both ways) a high risk player with the ball...

Please ignore % kicking efficiency with back half players. It's not hard to switch play to free men... Which is precisely what 70% of backline kicks are... 30m passes to free players
In 2011 Jason Blake was going at 90% or more by foot. Not sure he was a better kick than Lenny Hayes going at 65%

Jimmy kicks are flat and hard, so if the miss the target the player can't adjust to the ball.

His turnovers are indeed woeful

[saintspremiers]

Big Mart is clueless. Webster is a beautiful kick.

He's an OK kick. BM is not clueless, just on a different tangent like plugsie was

[Devilhead]

So Webster has never kicked it to the opposition from a stop play?
Because I've seen him do it a number of times... He can hit a difficult pass well, or can miss it completely. He's a guy who can be damaging with the ball (both ways) a high risk player with the ball...

Please ignore % kicking efficiency with back half players. It's not hard to switch play to free men... Which is precisely what 70% of backline kicks are... 30m passes to free players
In 2011 Jason Blake was going at 90% or more by foot. Not sure he was a better kick than Lenny Hayes going at 65%

Jimmy kicks are flat and hard, so if the miss the target the player can't adjust to the ball.

His turnovers are indeed woeful

Are Webster's turnovers are any more woeful than say Gibson's turnovers or worse than Rance's turnovers or Murphy's turnovers??

Seriously whats your point??

Unless after every Webster turnover the opposition scores a goal I don't see your point - is this what you are implying??

Because unless you can prove that this is the case then it would seem your argument is completely void of substance

[BigMart]

He's an overrated kick

This year he has coughed up a simple pass three times with a massive mis-kick

Say it again
He can hit a tough kick and split play open - or he can chunk it.

[The_Merchant]

Every player in the afl has horrible mis-kicks and turnovers. Savage, Webster and newnes are some of our best kicks, but they can all have terrible shanks. More so savage who has some shocking turnovers. Lee was brought in partially because of his kicking, he had some horrible mis kicks on the weekend. Forwards do it and give away goals that we should have got and we tend to forgive them, back men do it and it is the end of the world. Both hurt just as much. Lonie has had some absolute shockers so far this year.

[Devilhead]

He's an overrated kick

This year he has coughed up a simple pass three times with a massive mis-kick

Say it again
He can hit a tough kick and split play open - or he can chunk it.

All players can hit a tough kick and all players can split play open and all players can chunk it.

Webster has had 3 clangers in 3 games - are certain these were kicks or were these handballs??

Did the opposition score a direct goal from these clangers??

You say he kicks the ball hard and flat and his disposals can be damaging - well he is going at 85% and you say he is an overrated kick ???

You are all over the place - you are contradicting your self

[perfectionist]

He's an overrated kick...

His main problem is that he is completely one sided and runs to the left, often the boundary, to kick. Therefore, if the player to whom he wants to kick, or more often, who leads to him, is to his right, then he has to drag the ball across his body. This usually means he is dragging it across goal. Any slight mistake is a goal.

[Devilhead]

He's an overrated kick...

His main problem is that he is completely one sided and runs to the left, often the boundary, to kick. Therefore, if the player to whom he wants to kick, or more often, who leads to him, is to his right, then he has to drag the ball across his body. This usually means he is dragging it across goal. Any slight mistake is a goal.

Its the main problem for the majority of AFL players whether left or right foot - that they can only kick on their preferred side - He is not on his pat malone there!

But too call his kicking over rated is plain baloney especially when the facts state that he is going over 85% disposal efficiency and that he has had a grand total of 3 clangers in 3 games this year so far.

BigMart is insinuating that when Webster does stuff up the resulting turnover has dire consequences (in his words - woeful) yet he is yet to validate these dire consequences (ie: goal to the opposition)

As other posters have stated there is no doubting that Webster is one of the better kicks in the squad however unfortunately like anyone with decent skills his errors are magnified because when he does stuff up its because we probably don't expect him to do so - hence his clanger is apparently worse which makes absolutely no sense

[spert]

I think any future Saints jumpers should have a target on the chest. Turnovers to me anyway are just plain bad football, the worst of all, not a learning experience, and those who persist in bad footy go to the VFL to straighten out their faults. Ruthless, but I would rather win close games now than wait for years for some miracle cure when current coaches and players have moved on...it's an easy cop out.

What's with the duck?

[Griggsy]

afl.com.au has listed the turnover stats for each club and it appears we may have to start a list cloggers section for Stevens , Fisher, Montagna & Newnes -- well there you go, they also say as we grow older we will improve , I don't how the old the four of them will have to be before the improvement starts taking place.

I can't find these turnover stats you speak of on the afl site but, can I ask, are they just talking totals because that is crap?

We need to see the percentages as the midfielders will always have more possessions but not necessarily stuff more of their possessions up as other players.

Example
40 possies, 10 stuffed up = 25% clangers
20 possies, 8 stuffed up = 40% clangers

The midfielder has had more clangers but the other player has stuffed up more of his possessions.

Yup they were totals..for everyone's clarification stats are below

"Coach Alan Richardson encourages his players to be aggressive with their ball movement, but the Saints don't have enough elite ball-users for the risky option to consistently pay off. Jade Gresham was drafted at No.18 last year and will improve the team's ball movement when he becomes a regular senior player. St Kilda ranked 15th for points conceded from turnovers last year so there hasn't been any great change, but as the younger players mature, the Saints will improve their disposal. - Dinny Navaratnam

Points conceded from turnovers in 2016: 73 a game(ranked 17th)
Giveaways (turnovers from an error): 116 (ranked 16th)
Most turnovers this season: Jack Steven (27)
Most points conceded from turnovers: Sam Fisher, Leigh Montagna, Jack Newnes (26) "

We marginally beat the lions who concede 73.8 a game, and well off the pace of first who is geelong at 33ppg from turnovers

[BigMart]

Non preferred?

Barely a player in the AFL kicks with there non preferred... Under pressure they handball, in open they use dominant foot. Most would rather banana a kick than use their Left (ala Jack Steven)

Coaches prefer use on the dominant side as ball retention is critical

On Webster
If you have not seen him cough up the footy from a kick in, you haven't watched it too close. He is better than Gilbert and Stevens but gives it back too much.

Because he plays last line, it's costly ..... Particularly a 30m pass from a kick in, directly to the opposition.

I think Jimmy is an ok player, getting better... But his hit and miss foot skills are overrated.

And again,

It ain't hard too have good efficiency numbers squaring the ball in d50

[Devilhead]

I think Jimmy is an ok player, getting better... But his hit and miss foot skills are overrated.

Please explain how his hit and miss foot skills are over rated?? Surely this corresponds to his DE no matter where his target may be positioned

This year

Round 1 - 11 kicks , 7 handballs - 83% DE - 0 clangers

Round 2 - 10 kicks, 3 handballs - 85% DE - 2 clangers

Round 3 - 9 kicks, 13 handballs - 92% DE - 1 clanger

These stats tell me that he is hitting targets

If supporters were hailing him as being in the best 20 kicks in the league then sure you might consider him as being a tad over rated but they are not

There are just saying that he is one of the better kicks in the club - which he is - and the stats above from this year do not lie