Dunstan

[bigred]

He has time on his side and no doubt should be a very good, long term player for us.

His last quarter against North Melbourne is without doubt his new benchmark and I daresay that would be what he would be hearing all week and moving forward.
More than likely the acid was put on him with Armo going to the bench. And he responded with a definite lift in intensity and work rate.

Might be that the switch has been flicked.

He does need to go to the next level. If you don't have pace, you need to have unquestionable work rate and cover as much ground as possible. He has to maximize the amount of contests he gets to.

I still think he has a pretty good future.

[Saint wagga]

Seriously

We were flogged around the footy for three quarters. He was one of 4 mids getting a bath. Problem is, he has been underwhelming in his output since the end of his first year.

This year he's played 6 games
He's had one solid game
3 very average games
2 poor games which had one very good quarter

Probably 4-6 good quarters out of 24.

Seriously
Again
He had 8 kicks on Sunday.

No one is suggesting he is a super star right now but the type of consistency you're expecting should be coming from our senior players who bugger me if you dare criticise.

For guys like Dunstan, Acres etc. what I'm wanting to see are signs that they are capable of taking their games to the level of very good players. His final quarter on Sunday is an example of that. It's an example of what he is capable of producing.

He's not there yet... But he is showing signs that he could become a match winner

I think this is a very insightful comment! Richo has often talked about the phrase 'impacting games' and as our 3-5 year players start to 'impact games' more and more consistently, our performances will reflect that. Dunstan is in that lot, almost like a barometers of how we go, along with all the 3-5 year players in our best 22 curently playing...

Ross, Newnes, Weller, Dunstan, Billings, Acres, Webster, Minch, Hickey, Membrey

Throw some impressive signs from our second year players, and we are building really nicely.

Interesting comment, I read in an article today about Collingwood that they needed a lift from the middle group of players and in that group they listed De Goey!! A second year player! Now they must be in strife if they are relying on a consistent lift from a second year inside mid, albeit a player with promise...

I really like the way dunstan has lifted his tackle count this year and he looks stronger and more assertive around the stoppages, starting to almost thwo is weight around and he along with all the guys mentioned above just are starting to look like they belong and go up a notch and 'impact games of footy'...exciting times!!

[BigMart]

With his 'hurt factor' he needs to get a lot of the footy to be damaging.

Averaging 17ppg and 1 game this year 20+ is clearly not enough for an inside mid. He hasn't had 10 kicks in a game yet this season

Billings is averaging more touches, had more20+ games and has more 'hurt factor' and I consider Jack B as not yet a B Grader as he lacks consistency due to youth

Dunstan is consistently average and will need to elevate

[saintsRrising]

Lachie Whitfield (No 1 pick taken one year earlier than Dunstan) just indicated that he is staying at GWS.

Out of interest I compared his stats to Luke's.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_p ... 1=S&fid2=S

Averaging total disposals of 20.9 vs 18.3, but Luke wins more contested ball and tackles more.

For a No 18 pick stats wise he is going ok.

Coach also sometimes gives Luke negative roles which impact his total disposal count.

[satchmo]

Luke is tracking nicely, and the upward trend should continue.

[BigMart]

Is his trend upward?

Because I believe my point was that he hasn trajected upwards.... His numbers are steady.

Billings and Acres have trended north

That fact is, he can't win enough footy, because he can't spread quickly enough or get to enough stoppages. He needs to get to 25 plus... That's 2 extra per quarter...

[SainterK]

Lenny rated him....I'm willing to wait and see

[skeptic]

Meh like i said before, people are happy with what Dunstan produced in the last quarter because it shows us his ceiling is high and what he can become.

No one is arguing that he is a superstar now, or the best of our kids, or that every game he plays is great.

For whatever reason BM, you keep bringing the topic back to he could/should be doing and needs to get better. You're not wrong but no one is talking about that... No one is arguing with you... You're arguing with yourself and seem intent to continue to do so. By all means continue if it makes you happy.

[satchmo]

Is his trend upward?

Because I believe my point was that he hasn trajected upwards.... His numbers are steady.

Billings and Acres have trended north

That fact is, he can't win enough footy, because he can't spread quickly enough or get to enough stoppages. He needs to get to 25 plus... That's 2 extra per quarter...

Based on that he could handball to himself a couple of times a quarter and you'd be happy. The point being that statistics on their own mean little. He doesn't need "to get to 25 plus" at all. He needs to keep doing what the coaches are asking of him.

[Bluthy]

Is his trend upward?

Because I believe my point was that he hasn trajected upwards.... His numbers are steady.

Billings and Acres have trended north

That fact is, he can't win enough footy, because he can't spread quickly enough or get to enough stoppages. He needs to get to 25 plus... That's 2 extra per quarter...

Yes it is - just not in a really linear fashion disposal wise that you seem to love but isn't realistic. He's starting to shrug off some second year blues, does a lot of the hard, work at the drop of the ball that doesn't clock up a possession but either helps get it our way or stops it going their way too easily, is popping up for shots on goals (frustratingly missing but it will come).

And you can see his passion - he is starting to become a strong driving force for the team not content to let the oldies take all the responsibility . You need leaders like that who will push the team to go to another level - at his age its fantastic and bodes well for the team. Not everyone has to be a huge disposal collecting machine. He frees Steven and Armo up to be a bit more outside and do damage there. For 40 games he's tracking very well.

[BigMart]

The game is about getting a kick. The result is measured in goals, performance is measurable by numbers... Output.
If you have the ball, they don't.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find an inside mid in the AFL who doesn't get his hands on the pill 25 times a game.

And if you think an increase in output f 2 touches per Q isn't significant. You need to understand over a game it's an extra 8 possessions, over a drain it's an extra 176 possessions.
That's the sort of increase that takes you from C-Grade to the next level or indeed 25->33 would put you from B to A grade
Considering his level of disposal hurt

Billings could average 25 and would be an A Grader.

Stats are only meaningless when the don't support an argument... But you cannot deny them.

[BackFromUSA]

His possession rate for his role is excellent. His value in close is his blocks, support, ability to lock the ball in and extracate it when advatageous. Best when ball is in dispute. A warrior. As his body and fitness develops he will become Armitage like and then Lenny like. A 20 year old playing a role that is usually assigned to a mid 20s player. Already B grade in my mind. Will be A grade at 22 or 23 and elite and a leader at 25.

[satchmo]

His possession rate for his role is excellent. His value in close is his blocks, support, ability to lock the ball in and extracate it when advatageous. Best when ball is in dispute. A warrior. As his body and fitness develops he will become Armitage like and then Lenny like. A 20 year old playing a role that is usually assigned to a mid 20s player. Already B grade in my mind. Will be A grade at 22 or 23 and elite and a leader at 25.

Precisely.

[saintsRrising]

Stats are only meaningless when the don't support an argument... But you cannot deny them.

Or are they only meaningless when they do not suit the argument you are making?

Armo in his first FIVE seasons averaged in all of them no more than 15 disposals per game.

2007 6.7
2008 10.2
2009 15.7
2010 15.7
2011 15.3

Luke in his first two seasons achieved 18.8, 17.0 and is 18.3 so far this season. So he is well in front of that dud Armo who in his first three seasons was way less less than Dunstan, and who also trended backwards in his fifth year which evidently is a cardinal sin.

So is Armo a hack for trending less in his fifth year?

[BigMart]

Seriously BFUSA

Take the glasses off

In his role
Kennedy, Priddis, Scot Thompson, Selwood, Viney, Cotchin, Ward, Mitchell, Ablett, Fyfe, Armo are A Graders

Cunnington, Adams, Tom Mitchell, Miles, Liberatore, Shiels, Swallow, Jones are B Grade

He is not at the level or close
Does not get the footy enough or use it well enough to be considered a B Grade Inside Mid... He is not even a starting Mid

Seb Ross is B Grade - Just
Newnes is a B Grade outside Mid/Back
Savage is a B Grade HB

Dunstan is a level below all of those

He will be a B Grader in time

His pace and disposal will limit him a bit... What part of his game is elite?

[BackFromUSA]

Seriously BigMart.

Half your A Graders are ELITE. All except Mitchell (who you had as A and B grade) are early to mid 20s and older. Which is my point - he will be the equal of some of them when he is 23-25. Not an Ablett or Fyfe. More like a Lenny.

As for the B Graders listed - would place Luke amongst them for his team play and he is younger again!

You look only at the raw stats but I value contributions OFF the ball. He gets it 20 times a game but only plays inside mid for limited game time with Armo and Ross as well as Gilbert at times sharing the role for most people of the games.

He is selected to rotate in that position in preference to the older and bigger bodied Weller.

Teams that win Premierships have all the players who do the team things when they don't have the ball.

Luke has that team ethos.

He is doing great for a 20 year old just 2 seasons and 7 games in the AFL.

[BigMart]

I think you'll find that there is more than one Mitchell running around in the AFL

Nice try though

You have your opinion

I'll have mine...

Simply
He is not a great user, who gets it 17 times a game as a mid and even his biggest supporter must admit he's slow

[BigMart]

And if he turns out nearly as good as Lenny Hayes I'll give you keys to my house

Besides the number.... There is nothing remotely similar about them.

[BackFromUSA]

He is not slow. Just not a speedster.

Plenty of A Graders that were not speedsters. Even some Elite ones like Sam Mitchell.

Is that who you marked as just A Grade?

Then you are a very tough judge!

Fyfe post injury may be just A Grade.

Ablett post injury is just A Grade.

But Sam Mitchell?

Anyway he is not a fair comparison to Luke due to age, experience etc.

But interesting is even slower than Luke but has through experience learnt how to get time and space to execute his skills.

Took Armo a while to learn that.

Luke will too.

Happy to agree to disagree as we have before with Tom Hickey.

[BackFromUSA]

And if he turns out nearly as good as Lenny Hayes I'll give you keys to my house

Besides the number.... There is nothing remotely similar about them.

But where will you live?

[desertsaint]

His possession rate for his role is excellent. His value in close is his blocks, support, ability to lock the ball in and extracate it when advatageous. Best when ball is in dispute. A warrior. As his body and fitness develops he will become Armitage like and then Lenny like. A 20 year old playing a role that is usually assigned to a mid 20s player. Already B grade in my mind. Will be A grade at 22 or 23 and elite and a leader at 25.

pretty much exactly as i see it. can't understand the criticism.

[saintsRrising]

And if he turns out nearly as good as Lenny Hayes I'll give you keys to my house

Besides the number.... There is nothing remotely similar about them.

But where will you live?

Well he only said he would give you the keys....not the house itself

[saintsRrising]

Looks like Hayes must have been a dud too.

I just checked his stats. In his third season he only averaged 15.8 disposals.

[Griggsy]

Looks like Hayes must have been a dud too.

I just checked his stats. In his third season he only averaged 15.8 disposals.

2002 8.3 average disposals
2003 14.9
2004 14.3
2005 18.1
2006 16.9


Check out these dud stats, who in there right mind would keep this guy on a list after that horrible 3rd season and went backwards in his 5th - clearly not gonna make it
... Ill tell you what, Gary Ablett Jr was gifted an undeserved career.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-g ... jnr-ablett
(note this is not a comparison of skill level but just that even the great players take time. and yes i realise he was forward a bit but he would of been a mid if he could have handled it)

[magnifisaint]

Geez how many years did it take Priddus to go from a dud to a gun? I'd say 5 years. The guy can't run and he can't kick but he ended up winning a Brownlow. Just ask any Eagle supporter how good he was in his first 3 years and I bet you they weren't impressed.