I still dont think we're good enough.True Believer wrote:laughed this crap off as soon as the OP started writing off a 20 year old KPF who has great hands......no clue
We're Just Not Good Enough
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- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Johnny Member wrote:Ok, I'll admit it - I'm cynical about our prospects this season and beyond.
Now granted, he hasn't even played 50 games yet and could well be a late bloomer (compared with the development of Bontempelli and Petracca for example) but until then there's a genuine case to be very disappointed in what a Pick 3 has produced for us.
Then there's McCartin. I like him, but I don't like the way he's being played to be honest. I don't really understand why you'd spend Pick 1 on a lead-up half forward. I understand why you'd overlook Petracca and his obvious abundance of talent for a key forward with the number 1 Pick - but not for a high half forward.
I posted about this last year with a theory on why Bruce and McCartin drop what appear to be easy-ish marks. I noticed that they go too 'flat handed' at the ball instead of spreading their fingers in the more traditional and effective way. My theory was that they were being instructed to bring the ball to the front of the contest as their first priority - actually marking the pill is an afterthought. But the absolute rule is to not let the ball through the back.
McCartin did this really blatantly last week. He actually went up in the contest and his 'flat hands' were so obvious that it looked almost like a volleyball spike!
But I digress.....
My point is that we've been to the well, so to speak. We've handed over guys like Goddard and Dal Santo to load up on draft picks. We've used the picks we received to get players from other clubs, but more so to get young pearls from the draft. As a result we bottomed out and had 2 x top 3 picks in succession.
I just don't think it's worked, sadly.
We didn't get a Selwood. A Bont. A Judd. A Reiwoldt.
And that's we needed. It's what everyone needs.
Instead, we got a Curren, a Templeton, a Sinclair, a Newnes etc. etc.
So as we improve naturally (as guys get to that 50-100 game mark) there seems to be an expectation that the improvement trend will continue infinitely. But I have my doubts. I'd argue that outside of Gresham and last year's draftees - no one else will get much better than they will be this season.
But what we really, really need to see is a few guys show us that this year they'll become freakishly good. We need another 2-3 at Jack Stevens' level if we're going to improve enough over the next couple of seasons to seriously compete.
Acres? McCartin? Billings? Gresham? Freeman? Carlisle?
This isn't a knock on our recruiters necessarily - as looking at the drafts that I've flagged above, aside from the Bont and Petracca there's nothing glaring jumping out at us that we missed badly. It's just that at this stage, I don't believe we've brought in the required talent to be a genuine top 4 team.
Good thoughts. I like a lot of what you say but never understood why a tall forward was the necessary pick at #1 given our crap delivery to forwards. We were outpointed so badly in the midfield in the previous years in terms of effective clearance numbers. This meant outside players were either not getting the pill or were caught due to lack of player protection. Top clubs do that.
We needed one of the 4 players you mention. I would add Brayshaw to that list too. We should have had Petracca if we kept the #1 pick. The alternative was for 2 later round one picks (a tall forward/ruck - I had Peter Wright in mind here, plus a good size midfielder/half back prepared to bust up packs or someone to break the lines, run forward and kick goals).
Picks from 10 to 50 are often a lucky dip. Look at other clubs top picks and those picked later who are getting regular game time. Its difficult recruitment, as its speculative and dependent on player growth. I still think we predominantly needed classy midfielders more than forwards (even though I named Wright because he could do a duel role).
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Marking is imperative. You only have to look at Yeo from the Eagle. He has a great set og hands and is so valuable to their team because of this and his evasive movement and run.samoht wrote:Why do they mark at all, then? Is it a fail when they mark?
I can understand them deliberately spoiling the ball when their opponent is in a better position - but the other times they'd be going for the mark, putting their best hand forward, so to speak.
Why settle for a 10% chance of the resultant spill working in your team's favour - something coming of it (a point or a goal), when a mark means you have 100% control , you're under no pressure, and have a much better chance of something positive happening?
When the ball spills, you're going to be put under pressure - you get tackled, blocked and chased towards the boundary - chances are you'll cough the ball up even if it happens to go your team's way (and there's only a 50% chance of it even going your team's way, anyway).
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Bont was actually no so difficult to see. At the time he was an outsider but was climbing the recruitment ladder. I checked out all the videos of stated best players and this bloke featured in nearly everyone else's highlights video. The thing that caught my eye was his run, chase and tackle and that was before I saw his own highlights video. No wonder some clubs had him more highly rated than the writers. His effort told me a lot about his energy, his height and strength were quite obvious but it was his coverage that blew me away. I didn't see any others like it and I started to look for other players in other highlight videos. No one matched Bont.desertsaint wrote:"I'd argue that outside of Gresham and last year's draftees - no one else will get much better than they will be this season."
I expect we'll see a lot more improve than that - the vast majority of the following under 25s will improve. Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Bruce, Membrey, McCartin, Webster, Sinclair, Lonie, Ross, Newnes, Longer, Rice, Goddard, Pierce, Wright, and McKenzie.
I agree none of the above are looking like they will become elite, but some may become solid A players, and others good B to B+.
I too would have preferred Petracca over McCartin, and Bont over Billings (but only after the fact). Who wouldn't, we need elite players which is why we must tempt one over. I definitely see the core of a future finals contender in our list.
Midfield clearances and clear winners are needed to make an effective forward line.
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
You need to protect the ball handler to increase posession efficiency
- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
So....
Carlisle is borderline elite. Seriously, if he was a new guy the media would be flogging themselves about him right now.
He's as solid a CHB as I've seen for years right now. He'll get better too.
Steele could be elite, and fairly soon.
At this stage, I think that's it. At this stage.
Carlisle is borderline elite. Seriously, if he was a new guy the media would be flogging themselves about him right now.
He's as solid a CHB as I've seen for years right now. He'll get better too.
Steele could be elite, and fairly soon.
At this stage, I think that's it. At this stage.
- magnifisaint
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Are Collingwood good enough?Johnny Member wrote:I still dont think we're good enough.True Believer wrote:laughed this crap off as soon as the OP started writing off a 20 year old KPF who has great hands......no clue
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
No.magnifisaint wrote:Are Collingwood good enough?Johnny Member wrote:I still dont think we're good enough.True Believer wrote:laughed this crap off as soon as the OP started writing off a 20 year old KPF who has great hands......no clue
Nowhere near good enough.
- Dave McNamara
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
There are some genuine no-idea posters on SS, and no worries, that's fair enough... I have to pass an idle moment somehow.kalsaint wrote:Bont was actually no so difficult to see. At the time he was an outsider but was climbing the recruitment ladder. I checked out all the videos of stated best players and this bloke featured in nearly everyone else's highlights video. The thing that caught my eye was his run, chase and tackle and that was before I saw his own highlights video. No wonder some clubs had him more highly rated than the writers. His effort told me a lot about his energy, his height and strength were quite obvious but it was his coverage that blew me away. I didn't see any others like it and I started to look for other players in other highlight videos. No one matched Bont.
Conversely, there are also some very very astute observers of our magnificent game. I won't try to name them, for fear of unfairly forgetting too many, though certainly some can be found in this very thread.
However, there's one poster whom I will name. His/her assessments and insight continually make me 'sit up and take notice', and think, I'd never ever have thought of that, but it really makes sense(!)
That'd be you, kalsaint. And great to see you posting more of late.
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
- magnifisaint
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
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- dragit
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Probably fair mate, they were missing at least 6 starting 22 players...Johnny Member wrote:magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
Was a great win none the less.
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Yeah and so what. What's the point in being a doubter. Must be a miserable way to live.Johnny Member wrote:magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
- magnifisaint
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Yeah 6 top 5 draft picks. What a joke.dragit wrote:Probably fair mate, they were missing at least 6 starting 22 players...Johnny Member wrote:magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
Was a great win none the less.
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
- Con Gorozidis
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- Con Gorozidis
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
We will get one top 5 draft pickmagnifisaint wrote:Yeah 6 top 5 draft picks. What a joke.dragit wrote:Probably fair mate, they were missing at least 6 starting 22 players...Johnny Member wrote:magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
Was a great win none the less.
It will come from the hawks
- barneyboyz
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
How many first round picks were out, stuff them. This was enormous for the saints and will just keep building.dragit wrote:Probably fair mate, they were missing at least 6 starting 22 players...Johnny Member wrote:magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
Was a great win none the less.
All you doubters can save face though and be positive now
St. Kilda Football Club. Going strong, since 1960
- White Winmar
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
We were missing a few of our own first rounders. Armitage, McCartin, Hickey (technically pick 13) and Freeman.
I started with nothing and I've got most of it left!
- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Agree.dragit wrote:Probably fair mate, they were missing at least 6 starting 22 players...Johnny Member wrote:magnifisaint wrote:Good on you Johnny Member.....CLUELESS!
Still think we're a fair way off.
Lack polish, and top end talent.
There's some emerging, but not enough still.
Was a great win none the less.
- saintsRrising
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
White Winmar wrote:We were missing a few of our own first rounders. Armitage, McCartin, Hickey (technically pick 13) and Freeman.
and Weller who had a very good game against the Hawks.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- saintsRrising
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
White Winmar wrote:We were missing a few of our own first rounders. Armitage, McCartin, Hickey (technically pick 13) and Freeman.
and Weller who had a very good game against the Hawks.
However to be a good team you need DEPTH to cover omissions, and we now have much better depth.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- SaintPav
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- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Two totally different topics.
One is about whether we have enough top end talent on our list to win the flag, and whether anyone on our list will improve beyond what they produce this season.
The other is about a win over an undermanned team in R7.
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
Johnny Member wrote:I still dont think we're good enough.True Believer wrote:laughed this crap off as soon as the OP started writing off a 20 year old KPF who has great hands......no clue
- Johnny Member
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Re: We're Just Not Good Enough
I don't.saynta wrote:Johnny Member wrote:I still dont think we're good enough.True Believer wrote:laughed this crap off as soon as the OP started writing off a 20 year old KPF who has great hands......no clue