Lever
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- Sainter_Dad
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Lever
Is Lever that much better than Carlisle?
We have been lambasted for giving up pick 5 (and I know that we didn't but for the sake of arguments) for Jake Carlisle, but Melbourne are being lauded for giving up 2 x first rounders for Lever.
I don't get it. I am actually struggling to understand how anyone (aside from maybe 1 or 2 players) is worth 2 x First Rounders.
We have been lambasted for giving up pick 5 (and I know that we didn't but for the sake of arguments) for Jake Carlisle, but Melbourne are being lauded for giving up 2 x first rounders for Lever.
I don't get it. I am actually struggling to understand how anyone (aside from maybe 1 or 2 players) is worth 2 x First Rounders.
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- Joffa Burns
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Re: Lever
Agreed Pops.
He is younger but two first rounders with a bit of change is a huge price.
Still, if you want quality you have to pay.
He is younger but two first rounders with a bit of change is a huge price.
Still, if you want quality you have to pay.
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- Spinner
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Re: Lever
Sainter_Dad wrote:Is Lever that much better than Carlisle?
We have been lambasted for giving up pick 5 (and I know that we didn't but for the sake of arguments) for Jake Carlisle, but Melbourne are being lauded for giving up 2 x first rounders for Lever.
I don't get it. I am actually struggling to understand how anyone (aside from maybe 1 or 2 players) is worth 2 x First Rounders.
Think the dees got a great deal. Lever is 21, and already a proven key position player who would undoubtedly go in the top 3 picks if in this year's draft. Two first rounders, one being 10, the other probably between 12-18 is a bargain. Especially given the dees couldn't nail about 5 or so first rounders in a row at one stage a few years ago.
We got a good deal w Carlisle but the Dees have a beauty.
- SaintPav
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Re: Lever
Good player but Lever is no match winner.
They overpaid
They overpaid
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- Drake Huggins
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Re: Lever
Agreed. Way too much.SaintPav wrote:Good player but Lever is no match winner.
They overpaid
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Re: Lever
I don't think they'll regret it too much, but let's see how good he is in an ordinary side, an average defence, playing against the best forward the opposition has, week in, week out. I don't think he's elite, not yet anyway. Two first rounders? Pfft!
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Re: Lever
For TWO first rounders? That's a punt and a half!felix wrote:Yes but maybe a superstar..worth the punt.saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?
Good player. Yes.
Superstar? Not yet.
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- Spinner
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Re: Lever
saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?
Good player. Yes.
Superstar? Not yet.
He's 21....
In November they use a bunch of top 10 picks, even pick number 1 on players who havnt even played a game of AFL. Not superstars, not even good AFL players yet, not even GOP yet. So great logic there...
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Re: Lever
Nothing wrong with my logic.Spinner wrote:saynta wrote:Where did he come in their best and fairest?
Good player. Yes.
Superstar? Not yet.
He's 21....
In November they use a bunch of top 10 picks, even pick number 1 on players who havnt even played a game of AFL. Not superstars, not even good AFL players yet, not even GOP yet. So great logic there...
I was repying to a poster who said he was already a superstar at 21.
So read the entire thread before making silly posts ffs.
- magnifisaint
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Re: Lever
I reckon Lever is a gun but I'm not sure he'll be a match winner so on that 2 first rounders and a 4th rounder is overs by a fair margin.
Posting 20 years of holey crap!
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Re: Lever
He may also be toxic. The problem may not lie with Adelaide FC, it may sit with Lever. Looks like a tool to me.Drake Huggins wrote:I don't think they'll regret it too much, but let's see how good he is in an ordinary side, an average defence, playing against the best forward the opposition has, week in, week out. I don't think he's elite, not yet anyway. Two first rounders? Pfft!
- bigred
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Re: Lever
Massive.
Overs.
Could be a superstar but two first rounders is just way too much. They have a list that really you could consider to be developing into a contender. Looking for key bits of the puzzle.
Trading away your future first rounders like this is a huge risk.
Overs.
Could be a superstar but two first rounders is just way too much. They have a list that really you could consider to be developing into a contender. Looking for key bits of the puzzle.
Trading away your future first rounders like this is a huge risk.
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Re: Lever
Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!
- ace
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Re: Lever
Oils ain't oils and two first rounders aren't first rounders
The AFL points value is based over many years
Pick no 1 is valued at 3000 points
Pick no 18 is valued at 985 points
Three first rounders 16, 17 & 18 are valued at 3077 points.
So what maters is where those first rounders are placed.
In this trade
Melbourne gave up 2017 pick 10 but received pick 35 in return 1395 - 522 = 873 points in 2017
Melbourne gave up 2018 first rounder and fourth rounder but got back Adelaide's third rounder
We have no way of knowing where those picks will fall but lets use 2017 ladder positions
Melbourne gave up 2018 pick No 10 and pick No 65 but got back pick No 53 = 1395 + 90 - 233 = 1252 points in 2018
A total over 2 years of 2125 points worth pick 3 to 4 alone.
So Melbourne has effectively only given away one first round pick, but a high pick in the 3 to 4 range.
What makes the deal good for both sides is Melbourne's hubris.
Melbourne think those Melbourne 2018 picks are worth less and the Adelaide pick worth more.
Melbourne probably believe they have given up 350 points less so only given up pick 6
Adelaide think Melbourne are dreaming.
The AFL points value is based over many years
Pick no 1 is valued at 3000 points
Pick no 18 is valued at 985 points
Three first rounders 16, 17 & 18 are valued at 3077 points.
So what maters is where those first rounders are placed.
In this trade
Melbourne gave up 2017 pick 10 but received pick 35 in return 1395 - 522 = 873 points in 2017
Melbourne gave up 2018 first rounder and fourth rounder but got back Adelaide's third rounder
We have no way of knowing where those picks will fall but lets use 2017 ladder positions
Melbourne gave up 2018 pick No 10 and pick No 65 but got back pick No 53 = 1395 + 90 - 233 = 1252 points in 2018
A total over 2 years of 2125 points worth pick 3 to 4 alone.
So Melbourne has effectively only given away one first round pick, but a high pick in the 3 to 4 range.
What makes the deal good for both sides is Melbourne's hubris.
Melbourne think those Melbourne 2018 picks are worth less and the Adelaide pick worth more.
Melbourne probably believe they have given up 350 points less so only given up pick 6
Adelaide think Melbourne are dreaming.
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Re: Lever
The chance of getting two A graders for two picks in the 10 - 15 range is extremely slim. So chances are one is a C grader at best and maybe a complete bust. However, Lever is a known quantity. Certainly will be an A grader and potentially one of the best Key defenders in the game. He is better at 21 than Rance was.
So two Mid-range first rounders for Lever is a good and suitable deal.
This was a trade that was a win-win.
So two Mid-range first rounders for Lever is a good and suitable deal.
This was a trade that was a win-win.
- ace
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Re: Lever
Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
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Re: Lever
Paddy will be a gun starting next year.ace wrote:Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.
And feel free to bookmark my post.
He looked awesome at the B & F. Lean and mean.
He has also grown since coming to the club.
- SaintPav
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Re: Lever
I got a good feeling about this...saynta wrote:Paddy will be a gun starting next year.ace wrote:Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.
And feel free to bookmark my post.
He looked awesome at the B & F. Lean and mean.
He has also grown since coming to the club.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- Drake Huggins
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Re: Lever
Someone mentioned that at the B & F, Paddy was standing next to Baroose and looked taller. Baroose is listed as 197 cm. Paddy was drafted at 194 cm, IIRC. Has he grown that much or was he wearing high heels that night? If he's 197 and leaner and can run better as a result, there could be some happy times ahead.
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"No, you didn't."
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- skeptic
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Re: Lever
saynta wrote:Paddy will be a gun starting next year.ace wrote:Melbourne wasted 3000 points on Jack Watts but are wiling to sell him for 750 points a loss worth pick 3stkfc1 wrote:Two Melbourne supporters I know arent happy at all. Glad he came to the club but both reckon club have paid too much. He'd want to end up a superstar otherwise Melbourne have just shot themselves in the foot with their long term development. Big risk. Calculated risk. But big!
We spent 3000 points on Paddy, he is yet to prove himself worth any points.
We can only hope he turns out better than Watts.
And feel free to bookmark my post.
He looked awesome at the B & F. Lean and mean.
He has also grown since coming to the club.
Geeez, u and I don't get on much these days but I'll kiss your feet if this is the case