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This site, this club, are both full of shite.
Let's hope the pre season changes actually make a difference.
let's hope the the recruiting people at the end of the year, know what they need and how to get it.
As if
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Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
Typical on here - one good game and he's a gun! Has not shown much in the 2s until this year with Frankston and maybe the club has done the right thing with him. He is now maturing! Needs a good year next year to become established - I think he can do it. Still need at least one of Longer/Hickey/Lycett though. Marshall is not yet a ruckman.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been
That's got me thinking....
Well maybe we are into max kings ear now. Gets drafted by GC then seeks trade back to us.Scollop wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:38amThat's got me thinking....![]()
How about we pay overs for young kids and offer big contracts to their managers when they are 18 year olds and we just wait 2 years and pinch them from the club that initially drafts them.
That is the strategy clubs like Collingwood probably used with James Aish when he was drafted by Brisbane as an 18 year old and also way back with Nathan Buckley when he went to Brisbane they probably had an in priciple agreement with his management even before the National Draft.
I think it's against the rules and the AFL frown upon any draft tampering or deals done outside the regular national draft, but if we like a young player we should do everything we can to try and sign them and get them to our club. With the way that the TPP has increased and the player salaries these days being what they are it probably makes better sense to invest in a very talented youngster rather than hoping to lure a Free Agent after they've settled at the one club for 7-8 years.
I'm sure if we got Gubby Allen he'd know a devious trick or two to lure some elite talent
You miss the point completely. After 5 years on the list, I feel we should be able to definitely say whether he is or is not a gun.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:02amTypical on here - one good game and he's a gun! Has not shown much in the 2s until this year with Frankston and maybe the club has done the right thing with him. He is now maturing! Needs a good year next year to become established - I think he can do it. Still need at least one of Longer/Hickey/Lycett though. Marshall is not yet a ruckman.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been
Not necessarily - ruckman take quite a while to develop and mature. McEvoy was an Ok player for us and has matured into an almost gun with the Hawks. Took him years, into late 20s. Pierce has not been doing anything before this year to earn a game. All clubs have project ruckman, and quite a few haven't really been given a go in the seniors as yet, and get a go when the main ruckmen are injured or get a bit past it. At least the Club had the foresight to see potential and keep him as a rookie. Hopefully he will have a good year next year and if so, will be probably be ahead of Longer/Hickey.skeptic wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:47amYou miss the point completely. After 5 years on the list, I feel we should be able to definitely say whether he is or is not a gun.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:02amTypical on here - one good game and he's a gun! Has not shown much in the 2s until this year with Frankston and maybe the club has done the right thing with him. He is now maturing! Needs a good year next year to become established - I think he can do it. Still need at least one of Longer/Hickey/Lycett though. Marshall is not yet a ruckman.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been
We can’t.
He might be a gun because he did well in his second game.
You might rate that response, but I think it’s garbage. Hickey is mediocre. Longer is mediocre. Marshall is promising... how do we not not what Pierce is?
It’s crap
Well actually they did this mainly as a mistake with his original contract extension. They contracted him too long and so they had to keep him when they would have actually delisted him, and they so demoted him to the rookie list.
How do you know they made a mistake with his contract extension? I see it differently. Hadn't shown much so they rookied him to give him one last chance, and arranged for him to play at Frankston under the ruck coach to give him a good shot at it. Looks like he may have taken the chance. I would agree they had too many rucks playing at once for Sandy so it was a good move to get him to Frankston.saintsRrising wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:26pmWell actually they did this mainly as a mistake with his original contract extension. They contracted him too long and so they had to keep him when they would have actually delisted him, and they so demoted him to the rookie list.
That mistake may now work out. But this is pure luck and not due to foresight. You just have to look at Richo's reaction to Pierce's game this week.
Of course he's been in the St Kilda system. He's a St Kilda listed player and trains with them every day!samuraisaint wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 10:56am
And Pierce hasn't even been in the St. Kilda system this year. He's been in the Frankston Dolphins' system. Indictment on our coaching staff IMO.
?? He was contracted before he was put on the rookie list. Need I say more?
I’m sorry but this is a ridiculous argument.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:07pmNot necessarily - ruckman take quite a while to develop and mature. McEvoy was an Ok player for us and has matured into an almost gun with the Hawks. Took him years, into late 20s. Pierce has not been doing anything before this year to earn a game. All clubs have project ruckman, and quite a few haven't really been given a go in the seniors as yet, and get a go when the main ruckmen are injured or get a bit past it. At least the Club had the foresight to see potential and keep him as a rookie. Hopefully he will have a good year next year and if so, will be probably be ahead of Longer/Hickey.skeptic wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:47amYou miss the point completely. After 5 years on the list, I feel we should be able to definitely say whether he is or is not a gun.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:02amTypical on here - one good game and he's a gun! Has not shown much in the 2s until this year with Frankston and maybe the club has done the right thing with him. He is now maturing! Needs a good year next year to become established - I think he can do it. Still need at least one of Longer/Hickey/Lycett though. Marshall is not yet a ruckman.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been
We can’t.
He might be a gun because he did well in his second game.
You might rate that response, but I think it’s garbage. Hickey is mediocre. Longer is mediocre. Marshall is promising... how do we not not what Pierce is?
It’s crap
Not with you. Except for obvious guns, all young ruckman drafted are "project" ruckman because they take so long to develop. Saints obviously saw potential because they drafted him. He did not show very much for the first few years and was behind Longer/Hickey/Holmes, and did not EARN a game (except one). He was also one of plenty of ruckmen at Sandy. However, club still believed he had potential and extended his contract, he did not show much again, but still had that potential, so last year was delisted but rookied and arrangements made to be main ruck at Frankston. The club held on to him despite his lack of development, to their credit, and this may pay dividends.skeptic wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 7:11pmI’m sorry but this is a ridiculous argument.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:07pmNot necessarily - ruckman take quite a while to develop and mature. McEvoy was an Ok player for us and has matured into an almost gun with the Hawks. Took him years, into late 20s. Pierce has not been doing anything before this year to earn a game. All clubs have project ruckman, and quite a few haven't really been given a go in the seniors as yet, and get a go when the main ruckmen are injured or get a bit past it. At least the Club had the foresight to see potential and keep him as a rookie. Hopefully he will have a good year next year and if so, will be probably be ahead of Longer/Hickey.skeptic wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:47amYou miss the point completely. After 5 years on the list, I feel we should be able to definitely say whether he is or is not a gun.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:02amTypical on here - one good game and he's a gun! Has not shown much in the 2s until this year with Frankston and maybe the club has done the right thing with him. He is now maturing! Needs a good year next year to become established - I think he can do it. Still need at least one of Longer/Hickey/Lycett though. Marshall is not yet a ruckman.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been
We can’t.
He might be a gun because he did well in his second game.
You might rate that response, but I think it’s garbage. Hickey is mediocre. Longer is mediocre. Marshall is promising... how do we not not what Pierce is?
It’s crap
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t argue that they rated him and he was a project ruckman and then accept that they played him once in 5 years...
Baring in mind that Marshall seemingly overtook him as well and Pierce only got a game because of injury.
In fact they were playing injured ruckman ahead of him too.
Every indicator/marker is that he was destined for the scrap heap, was gifted a game via injury 3 games before the season from hell ended and has completely exceeded all expectations. Trying to argue that this is anything other than terrible development is rose coloured glasses of the highest order.
And for the record, he’s been one of the better rucks in the VFL this season. Consistent reports are that he’s been doing very well at Frankston and many forumites myself included called for him to get a game for at least the last 10 weeks
You would fit right into our recruiting team with logic light that. I suggest you fire in your resume to Lethers.
I’m sorry but I am finding it very hard to follow you’re logic...takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 8:06pmNot with you. Except for obvious guns, all young ruckman drafted are "project" ruckman because they take so long to develop. Saints obviously saw potential because they drafted him. He did not show very much for the first few years and was behind Longer/Hickey/Holmes, and did not EARN a game (except one). He was also one of plenty of ruckmen at Sandy. However, club still believed he had potential and extended his contract, he did not show much again, but still had that potential, so last year was delisted but rookied and arrangements made to be main ruck at Frankston. The club held on to him despite his lack of development, to their credit, and this may pay dividends.skeptic wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 7:11pmI’m sorry but this is a ridiculous argument.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:07pmNot necessarily - ruckman take quite a while to develop and mature. McEvoy was an Ok player for us and has matured into an almost gun with the Hawks. Took him years, into late 20s. Pierce has not been doing anything before this year to earn a game. All clubs have project ruckman, and quite a few haven't really been given a go in the seniors as yet, and get a go when the main ruckmen are injured or get a bit past it. At least the Club had the foresight to see potential and keep him as a rookie. Hopefully he will have a good year next year and if so, will be probably be ahead of Longer/Hickey.skeptic wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:47amYou miss the point completely. After 5 years on the list, I feel we should be able to definitely say whether he is or is not a gun.takeaway wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 12:02amTypical on here - one good game and he's a gun! Has not shown much in the 2s until this year with Frankston and maybe the club has done the right thing with him. He is now maturing! Needs a good year next year to become established - I think he can do it. Still need at least one of Longer/Hickey/Lycett though. Marshall is not yet a ruckman.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been
We can’t.
He might be a gun because he did well in his second game.
You might rate that response, but I think it’s garbage. Hickey is mediocre. Longer is mediocre. Marshall is promising... how do we not not what Pierce is?
It’s crap
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t argue that they rated him and he was a project ruckman and then accept that they played him once in 5 years...
Baring in mind that Marshall seemingly overtook him as well and Pierce only got a game because of injury.
In fact they were playing injured ruckman ahead of him too.
Every indicator/marker is that he was destined for the scrap heap, was gifted a game via injury 3 games before the season from hell ended and has completely exceeded all expectations. Trying to argue that this is anything other than terrible development is rose coloured glasses of the highest order.
And for the record, he’s been one of the better rucks in the VFL this season. Consistent reports are that he’s been doing very well at Frankston and many forumites myself included called for him to get a game for at least the last 10 weeks
In my view when fit both Longer and Hickey are still ahead of Pierce as ruckmen, so he did not get a game until now. Let's see how he goes in the last two games, and next year, and he may be able to be recognised as No. 1 ruck, depending on the other ruckmen still on the list and their form. Not terrible management at all - showed nothing for 4 years, but was retained.
Did that weeks ago.saintsRrising wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 9:26pmYou would fit right into our recruiting team with logic light that. I suggest you fire in your resume to Lethers.
Come to think of it, that is the logic that our CEO used with Richo too!
I don’t think it’s lauding though...To the top wrote: ↑Sun 12 Aug 2018 11:44pm For those referring to Pierce’s statistics and lauding same, compare them to Hickey’s - plus Hickey is more mobile and a better ball user
What Pierce did confirm is that the ranking of our ruckmen is Hickey, Pierce and then Longer a long way in arrears
Marshall is at best a relief ruck at this stage of his development
Marshall’s improvement has been in his abiiity to hold his share of contested marks where at the start of his career he was not able to hold them
Mate... excellent post. Couldn't agree more on both.rodgerfox wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 12:10pmI thought he was excellent, considering.saintsRrising wrote: ↑Fri 10 Aug 2018 11:30pm Well on another disappointing night Pierce was one plus.
Only one game, but that was better than Longer plays and even possibly Hickey.
Certainly fora ruckman playing only his second game it was a very credible performance.
Was better than Bellchambers.
Surprised actually, to not hear a single mention of his performance by the commentators. I actually think they were mistaking him for Marshall throughout the game.
When he gets fit, he'll be really good.
Just on Marshall though....fair dinkum he is a 'dumb' footballer. Some of his decisions are perplexing. And it'd be nice if Dixon can teach him to concentrate when kicking for goal too. His eyes dart around and look everywhere except at the target and the ball throughout his entire run up.
Dude, once you've decided to have a shot - concentrate on the job at hand FFS. Very basic stuff.
Louey's second game yes, but effectively, his first game as the number one ruckman.groupie1 wrote: ↑Mon 13 Aug 2018 3:30amMate... excellent post. Couldn't agree more on both.rodgerfox wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 12:10pmI thought he was excellent, considering.saintsRrising wrote: ↑Fri 10 Aug 2018 11:30pm Well on another disappointing night Pierce was one plus.
Only one game, but that was better than Longer plays and even possibly Hickey.
Certainly fora ruckman playing only his second game it was a very credible performance.
Was better than Bellchambers.
Surprised actually, to not hear a single mention of his performance by the commentators. I actually think they were mistaking him for Marshall throughout the game.
When he gets fit, he'll be really good.
Just on Marshall though....fair dinkum he is a 'dumb' footballer. Some of his decisions are perplexing. And it'd be nice if Dixon can teach him to concentrate when kicking for goal too. His eyes dart around and look everywhere except at the target and the ball throughout his entire run up.
Dude, once you've decided to have a shot - concentrate on the job at hand FFS. Very basic stuff.
I thought Pierce was great insofar as I barely noticed we were playing a ruckman in only his second game.
Totally agree but want to point out that he took 5 marks including 2 contested. In his 65 games Billy Longer has taken 5 or more marks once.skeptic wrote: ↑Sat 11 Aug 2018 5:48pm See this performance by Pierce is absolute proof that Richo CANNOT coach.
As pointed out above, second game = 18 possessions, 2 marks, 27 hitouts... close to the best performance of a ruck in our colours this season.
Where on earth has this kid been. On the verge of being delisted after what... 5 odd years, are we saying this kid has been thoroughly tested and can’t play!!??
Absolutely not.
COmpletely promising and full of potential but cant get a game ahead of the Hickey/Longer jaggarnaut.
Would not have played a game barring injury
Absolute disgrace.
If i was Richo, I wouldn’t play him again, delist him and pray that no one else picks him up and exposes Richo for the fool he has been