Another Collingwood drugs scandal

[Scollop]

Breaking news

After the fiasco and the excuses of party drugs last time with Thomas and Keefe, I wonder what excuse Collingwood will have this time

Sam Murray apparantly is the player and there's reports he's been done for allegedly being on the coke for performance enhancing reasons on an actual game day. At least Buckley will now have another excuse if the filth stuff up in finals

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-24/b ... estigation

[parkeysainter]

Get f***ed! You are kidding me...

[Cairnsman]

Breaking news

After the fiasco and the excuses of party drugs last time with Thomas and Keefe, I wonder what excuse Collingwood will have this time

Sam Murray apparantly is the player and there's reports he's been done for allegedly being on the coke for performance enhancing reasons on an actual game day. At least Buckley will now have another excuse if the filth stuff up in finals

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-24/b ... estigation

Scollop have you got the link(s) to the reports claiming the substance is cocaine?

I read the AFL article you provided a link for however there is no mention of cocaine.

[Scollop]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/mag ... 4zzh0.html

[WellardSaint]

picked for Power game, withdrew for 'personal reasons'

[parkeysainter]

There is clearly a drug problem at the Holden Centre.

[Cairnsman]

He played well that day too looking at his stats.

[saynta]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

[WellardSaint]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

[parkeysainter]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

Maybe they were all still high after one of Malthouse's famous swinger parties.

[Dis Believer]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

I recall that quite distinctly, there was only ever one story on a newspaper website and that disappeared fairly quickly. The comment that stuck for me was (to paraphrase) that the "art in doping" was to get players to levels "just below the red flag level" and keep them there without going over that point. The number of players that Collingwood had at those elevated levels was statistically about as likely as me bedding the next Miss Universe winner, possibly even more remote than that !!

[saynta]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

I recall that quite distinctly, there was only ever one story on a newspaper website and that disappeared fairly quickly. The comment that stuck for me was (to paraphrase) that the "art in doping" was to get players to levels "just below the red flag level" and keep them there without going over that point. The number of players that Collingwood had at those elevated levels was statistically about as likely as me bedding the next Miss Universe winner, possibly even more remote than that !!

I think the 10 were the only players tested.

[saintbob]

Well according to all the ITK’s, Hannebery loves the s***!!!

[cwrcyn]

A few days after the 2010 grand final replay. I know someone who worked at the Herald Sun at the time. Mark Robinson was going to go with the story. The sports desk that day was abuzz with this big story they were about to blow. My contact told me to grab the paper the next day, as it was going to be huge. Robinson made mention of it on radio that evening. Something happened overnight. My contact was stunned when the story was inexplicable dropped. My guess Demetriou was on the blower that night. My info was that 6 players had tested positive to high levels of HGH, not 10. This is why Hird was going on about Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn pushing the boundaries and he wanted to keep up with them.

[happy feet]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

I recall that quite distinctly, there was only ever one story on a newspaper website and that disappeared fairly quickly. The comment that stuck for me was (to paraphrase) that the "art in doping" was to get players to levels "just below the red flag level" and keep them there without going over that point. The number of players that Collingwood had at those elevated levels was statistically about as likely as me bedding the next Miss Universe winner, possibly even more remote than that !!

I think the 10 were the only players tested.

You're on the money. I remember talk the elevated HGH can occur naturally, but that 10/22 players was a massive statistical improbability and that it would lead one to believe they were possibly on something. Why then did one team recover so spectacularly well and the other looked stuffed from the first quarter. There were media reports in papers but you cannot find a trace of them now.

[saynta]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

I recall that quite distinctly, there was only ever one story on a newspaper website and that disappeared fairly quickly. The comment that stuck for me was (to paraphrase) that the "art in doping" was to get players to levels "just below the red flag level" and keep them there without going over that point. The number of players that Collingwood had at those elevated levels was statistically about as likely as me bedding the next Miss Universe winner, possibly even more remote than that !!

I think the 10 were the only players tested.

You're on the money. I remember talk the elevated HGH can occur naturally, but that 10/22 players was a massive statistical improbability and that it would lead one to believe they were possibly on something. Why then did one team recover so spectacularly well and the other looked stuffed from the first quarter. There were media reports in papers but you cannot find a trace of them now.

I saw a recent quote from their then captain, think it was from a promo for" open mike' where he stated that they were all stuffed after the drawn grannie and didn't know how they would get up for the replay.

I think they found a way.

Wouldn't sit well with me if I was a player who took something and then cheated my way to a flag.

[remboy]

Don't forget when Eddie and Gary Pert had a press conference a few years back to talk about the drug problem in the AFL after drug testers turned up to Collingwood and 5 players walked into Pert's office to self report to avoid recording a strike.
Sounds like it's more a Collingwood problem than an AFL one.

[WellardSaint]

With HGH, there's never ever been any definitive studies on its effects.
What athletes are going to admit to using it and then agree to undergo trials?
Athletes who use it, according to the Mitchell Report in the USA, of Dec 2007, believed it helps
prevent injury, and aids recovery. (86 Major League baseballers had admitted to using PEDs, all types, including HGH, in that report).
It's known that it doesn't increase strength.

If recovery is aided, then no wonder the Filth looked much fresher from the very start, and just ran rings around us- we looked stuffed.

Of course the Kremlin would hide this.
Banks, churches, police forces, government, any institution will cover up stuff.

[The OtherThommo]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

That was the question, Wellard - 'HGH or testosterone?'

You may recall an exchange b/w myself and the late, great Zelko, when this matter came up in the E'dope times. He knew (being at the AIS, with some of his 'good guys' coming from the ASADA part of the Sports Commission complex in Canberra) which it was, provided a general outline of what was found, and asked me to suggest which one I thought it was, and why I thought so.

I got it in one - HGH. Most of my rationale came from understanding where the testing for HGH and testosterone stood, and comparing that to what was found, and wondering aloud why it had been swept under the rug.

In short, the testing for HGH hadn't been developed to the point where anything other than levels that were stratospheric would struggle to provide a case that could be prosecuted. It also wasn't helped by ASADA having bugger all know how (they weren't even close to being up to speed on where the testing developments had got to), and bugger all resources available locally to do any testing. That left them to go cap in hand to WADA, to see what they needed to do. Again, longy short, they had to send samples o/s, with an indeterminate length of time on when they might get something back, and what it might be that came back. Ergo, for all sorts of reasons, including the political 'imperative' of ensuring ASADA weren't seen as under funded and resourced, ergo 'behind', so ineffective, it was decided under the rug she went.

WADA did take some samples away, but essentially used them to further the pursuit of a testing regime for HGH.

Much of the background can be seen in where they've come to now - https://www.wada-ama.org/en/questions-a ... gh-testing

Back around the E'dope times, they even suspended testing for HGH, because they couldn't get the method sorted. Eventually they settled on 2 tests, the Isoform and the Biomarkers. You may recall back then they were leaning to the IGF-1 Biomarker test. Later they hit some potholes, and it continues to swirl around.

HGH was one of the main reasons they headed down the "Biological Passport" route, given they had to find a way a way to establish some baselines and ranges for 'naturally occurring' hormones, and such, for each individual athlete.

[The OtherThommo]

A few days after the 2010 grand final replay. I know someone who worked at the Herald Sun at the time. Mark Robinson was going to go with the story. The sports desk that day was abuzz with this big story they were about to blow. My contact told me to grab the paper the next day, as it was going to be huge. Robinson made mention of it on radio that evening. Something happened overnight. My contact was stunned when the story was inexplicable dropped. My guess Demetriou was on the blower that night. My info was that 6 players had tested positive to high levels of HGH, not 10. This is why Hird was going on about Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn pushing the boundaries and he wanted to keep up with them.

That's my memory, too, it was 6 players.

[The OtherThommo]

Pity they didn't drug test the whole team after the replayed grand final.

if i recall correctly, there were elevated levels of HGH (human growth hormone) or maybe
testosterone.
In about 10 Filth players.
They were borderline, not over the limit.
It was either covered up or not highlighted by the media.

I want tony74 to give us his take on that, as an ITK he would know
and be able to tell us what the Saints thought,
or is it just like the Tom Hawkins' point-
'let's forget about it and move on, bigger picture' ?

I recall that quite distinctly, there was only ever one story on a newspaper website and that disappeared fairly quickly. The comment that stuck for me was (to paraphrase) that the "art in doping" was to get players to levels "just below the red flag level" and keep them there without going over that point. The number of players that Collingwood had at those elevated levels was statistically about as likely as me bedding the next Miss Universe winner, possibly even more remote than that !!

I think the 10 were the only players tested.

You're on the money. I remember talk the elevated HGH can occur naturally, but that 10/22 players was a massive statistical improbability and that it would lead one to believe they were possibly on something. Why then did one team recover so spectacularly well and the other looked stuffed from the first quarter. There were media reports in papers but you cannot find a trace of them now.

That's also correct, feet - although it was characterised as a 'statistical impossibility', for all 6 to test as bumping up against the 'guideline' threshold that was in place at the time.

[The OtherThommo]

While I'm here, and harking back, anyone recall the "Follistatin Phase" of the E'dope times?

The Thin Review, about a month ago - https://www.afr.com/news/casual-chat-wi ... 725-h135ek

A chance discussion with the former Governor of Victoria, Professor David de Kretser, has led to a discovery that has the potential to dramatically improve treatment for lung cancer.

After serving as Governor from 2005 - 2011, de Kretser, a reproductive biologist, went back to work at Melbourne's Hudson Institute of Medical Research.

Earlier in his career, he had discovered a naturally occurring hormone called follistatin and he continued to investigate it.

Across the hall some scientists were working on chemotherapy for lung cancer. There was no connection between his work and theirs.....................

He says follistatin is likely to be safe and effective because it is already found in the human body which means there is much less potential for toxicity than with other drugs used to reduce chemo-resistance.

Follistatin can also prevent muscle wastage common in cancer and, he says, raises the possibility of giving new life to older cancer drugs allowing more people to be treated, safely.

With 33 authors, it was a collaboration between the Garvan, the Hudson and a company called Paranta Biosciences Limited, founded by de Kretser in 2011 to produce follistatin.

In the 1980s, de Kretser had shown that follistatin could regulate another protein that was a key initiator of the inflammatory response.

This protein was called activin A and when it was bound to follistatin, it was neutralised.

His work had focused on the use of follistatin for inflammation and fibrosis and a trial is now underway using people with cystic fibrosis.

Until the serendipitous discussion with Watkins, no one had thought of its potential as a cancer agent.

Watkins' team showed that in mice resistant to treatment, activin was switched on in response to the damage caused by chemotherapy.

Cancer cells actually enlisted activin to protect themselves. While switched on, the activin promoted kidney damage.

But when follistatin was added to the mix, activin became inactive, allowing the chemotherapy to do its work while the kidneys remained healthy."

Follistatin, Activin A and inflammation, such memories!

I also note Mal Hooper, the deregistered chiro involved with Willcourt, Dank, Robinson, Alavi, et al, who provided the facilities for the 'Mex Hex' to find its way into various practitioners from the EFC, is currently undergoing examination in the courts, over a bloke who died - unattended - in one of his hyperbaric chambers (at Oxymed, in Sth Yarra, renamed from Hypermed).

The bloke was designated as a "patient" by Hooper's outfit (it was the "patient attendant" who was off doing something other than "attending" to the patient, when he died).

So, a death of a "patient", and who conducts the investigation and brings the case?

Worksafe!

Just like the E'dope matter, despite all the medical and other 'professionals' being up to their necks in it.

Trust no-one.

[saynta]

Should be a matter for the coroner mate.

[chico2001]

Breaking news

After the fiasco and the excuses of party drugs last time with Thomas and Keefe, I wonder what excuse Collingwood will have this time

Sam Murray apparantly is the player and there's reports he's been done for allegedly being on the coke for performance enhancing reasons on an actual game day. At least Buckley will now have another excuse if the filth stuff up in finals

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-24/b ... estigation

You weak whinger, how about talking about something positive. Who cares about Collingwood. Stop making excuses for past St Kilda failures.Always having a stab at other clubs as a reason or excuse why the saints are not doing any good. Ask why the saints are not succeeding, learn something about the game and then you might be able to contribute something meaningful.

[derby Street]

Breaking news

After the fiasco and the excuses of party drugs last time with Thomas and Keefe, I wonder what excuse Collingwood will have this time

Sam Murray apparantly is the player and there's reports he's been done for allegedly being on the coke for performance enhancing reasons on an actual game day. At least Buckley will now have another excuse if the filth stuff up in finals

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-24/b ... estigation

You weak whinger, how about talking about something positive. Who cares about Collingwood. Stop making excuses for past St Kilda failures.Always having a stab at other clubs as a reason or excuse why the saints are not doing any good. Ask why the saints are not succeeding, learn something about the game and then you might be able to contribute something meaningful.

Geez Chico - I think Scollop touched a raw nerve. A bit close to the heart - perhaps you should leave SS and head back to the filth fulltime.