Please explain: What is a ‘system’? What are ‘tactics’?

[shanegrambeau]

..and what is the difference in layman’s terms? Clarkson just said every single premiership team has ‘system’ and that ‘tactics’ might win you a few odd games, ‘but not finals’. As we know all too well, in 1997, Blight had a back-pocket kick five goals on us, and then we had the pleasure of watching Jarman do his thing. Is that part of a by-gone era, or something like a “system”? Or is Clarkson in the media spin mode? He looked pretty serious. And.....I know people have said we have no system- seriously, and obviously?, Richo would have surely proposed a “system” when he took over, and also now? (I don’t just mean intense pressure) What (steady now) was it?

[rodgerfox]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

[rodgerfox]

FWIW though, I think Clarkson was deflecting a bit.

There was enormous hype about how he was going to strategically dismantle Richmond somehow.

But he didn't and/or couldn't.


I'd argue that tactics, in addition to system, absolutely wins flags.

Ross Lyon is exhibit A. Best in the business with his system - but on the big stage, teams that also had quality systems were able to unravel him by applying tactics on top of it.

[perfectionist]

The "system" is, starting from the backline, you have more skillful players than your opposition. Also, make sure you have a height advantage all over the ground.

The "tactics" are, identify the most dangerous players in the opposition and develop plans to minimise their effectiveness - especially in the last quarter.

[shanegrambeau]

Rogerfox and Perfectionist, thank you.

I think I am already somewhat getting there but I’m still not sure if these words overlap in their connotations or whether they really refer to fundamentals that are different or whether we don’t really k ow, and if they are slippery concepts, then of course, they lend themselves to being played with By disappointed coaches at media conferences.

So far...
Let’s look at sledging and the famous Australian cricket team in their heyday as brutal the early 00s

System
Absolutely sledge, push to the limits. A general principle and always applicable. No need to say, ‘it depends on x,y,z” take it as a given

Strategy
Find out little bits of info about opposition players - past indiscretions, vulnerable points of interest, disgavoured by selectors etc. very much influenced by particular opposition

Tactics
Knowing or guessing when and how to employ, ball-by-ball, very much dictated by match situation, and a hit-and-miss affair, something to ‘try’

So these things might be,

A) always make sure you have height advantage in the first half of the game, or running speed advantage in the last quarter based on available data you have - System?

B) send Jaramn down alone in the forward line to cause havoc - Tactic?

C) alway head for the boundary between the wing and the FFlank when ahead - strategy? System?

D) whine and whine to the umps after ‘unlucky’ decisions because they might bend a little on your side next time. (Same as a bowler ‘stunned’ by not getting an LBW) - strategy

E) Set plays from kick-offs - System

F) Throwing Tony Locket into the ruck for the first few centre bounces after a barren first half - tactic

G) looking at an oppositions ‘system’ and trying to dilute its effectiveness it by doing x,y, z - strategy

And it is with point G that I guess Clarkson was able to spin. He was saying, we aren’t going to be dictated to by another system, we have our system and it is usually a case of ‘best system wins’

Which makes me wonder a bit. I think the words maybe a little overrated because they are really fuzzy, but going forward we might see more of them.

When - and if - the AFL introduces zones they will have in fact , introduced a system, to which clubs will undoubtably employ strategies against. But they won’t employ tactics because those zones are permanent.

Maybe I am getting there? And St Kilda’s system is ????

[shanegrambeau]

And I must add, I love that keys, phone and wallet metaphor there Mr. Fox

[mightysainters]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

End thread.. close it and lock it.. brilliant

[kosifantutti]

Its nice to know Richo posts here.

[Cairnsman]

FWIW though, I think Clarkson was deflecting a bit.

There was enormous hype about how he was going to strategically dismantle Richmond somehow.

But he didn't and/or couldn't.


I'd argue that tactics, in addition to system, absolutely wins flags.

Ross Lyon is exhibit A. Best in the business with his system - but on the big stage, teams that also had quality systems were able to unravel him by applying tactics on top of it.

I'd argue that what you have described is more of a standard operating procedure or work instruction.

Systems' and processes sit above SOPs and WIs in most standardised organisations.

Was Clarko refering to something more in the big picture scheme of things?

[fugazi]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

[Cairnsman]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

[Teflon]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Nah it’s really good
You’re being jealous again let it go

[The OtherThommo]

A quick read, and I think Shane G is the only one who mentioned "strategy". So, kudos. Unfortunately, the explanation of what strategy is, was wrong.

Strategy sits atop the tree - it's the identification of where you are, cf where you want to be, the gap, and broadly what you need to do to bridge the gap.

System is what you employ to give the strategy its best chance of working. For want of a better term, its your m.o., fed by your strategy.

Tactics are purely arbitrage used to exploit short term opportunities presented by your oppositions deficiencies against your strategy, and system, or your superiority cf the opposition's situational shortfalls.

[Cairnsman]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Nah it’s really good
You’re being jealous again let it go

Yep that's it

[Teflon]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Nah it’s really good
You’re being jealous again let it go

Yep that's it

Thought so

[Cairnsman]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Nah it’s really good
You’re being jealous again let it go

Yep that's it

Thought so

Beats getting sooky

[Teflon]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Nah it’s really good
You’re being jealous again let it go

Yep that's it

Thought so

Beats getting sooky

Well good to see you getting over your earlier tantrum over Dodgys system anyway , so there’s a positive but youve still a way to go

[Cairnsman]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Nah it’s really good
You’re being jealous again let it go

Yep that's it

Thought so

Beats getting sooky

Well good to see you getting over your earlier tantrum over Dodgys system anyway , so there’s a positive but youve still a way to go

Always Teffers

[shanegrambeau]

OK...good. So there is a hiearachy based on how much time and discussion is available.
Our reality or the facts of the matter/how we perceive the reality including all the blind spots we have/strategy to deal best with it as we see it/ system to implement the strategy most effectively/tactics to exploit opportunities or plug holes that appear in battle.
Great responses! And I must admit, altho I use the moniker of Shane who sits above Carey and co. I must confess, I am actually none other than the coaches of your beloved club, Alan Richardson (sp?)

[The OtherThommo]

OK...good. So there is a hiearachy based on how much time and discussion is available.
Our reality or the facts of the matter/how we perceive the reality including all the blind spots we have/strategy to deal best with it as we see it/ system to implement the strategy most effectively/tactics to exploit opportunities or plug holes that appear in battle.
Great responses! And I must admit, altho I use the moniker of Shane who sits above Carey and co. I must confess, I am actually none other than the coaches of your beloved club, Alan Richardson (sp?)

Thought so...................and, welcome aboard!!

[Teflon]

OK...good. So there is a hiearachy based on how much time and discussion is available.
Our reality or the facts of the matter/how we perceive the reality including all the blind spots we have/strategy to deal best with it as we see it/ system to implement the strategy most effectively/tactics to exploit opportunities or plug holes that appear in battle.
Great responses! And I must admit, altho I use the moniker of Shane who sits above Carey and co. I must confess, I am actually none other than the coaches of your beloved club, Alan Richardson (sp?)

Significantly pleasing if that were true..

[minneapolis]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Are you here for the 5 minute or the 10 minute argument? (Python).

[Cairnsman]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Are you here for the 5 minute or the 10 minute argument? (Python).

What's your take on it?

[Vazelos]

A System is a process you following daily with structures and game plan.

Tactics is a game plan you implement for a particular match.

Strong commitment to systems executed by high level players wins matches consistently that is what I believe Clarko was saying.

[minneapolis]

A system is placing my car keys, wallet and phone in the exact same place every night before I go to bed.
When I leave the house I know exactly where they are, and they are exactly where I left them every single time.

A tactic, is to just chuck them somewhere every night. Then when I'm racing out the door each morning and I've lost them and I'm late for work, I frantically offer my kids 5 bucks if they can find them for me, cause they're good at finding stuff.


The system is the far better option, obviously.


But, if someone moves my keys - I'm rooted. The system falls apart! And that's when I need to fall back on my tactics. Which, if I don't have up my sleeve will render me late and angry.

Brilliant explanation

No its not. It's not what a system is and the explanation of a tactic is completely wrong.

Are you here for the 5 minute or the 10 minute argument? (Python).

What's your take on it?

I agree with the Fox.

A system is a set of procedures that you regularly follow. Like putting your keys in the same place at the same time.

Tactics is an addition or an alteration to the system for a particular perceived circumstance.