Emerging best team

[fugazi]

F: Long McCartin Battle
HF: Gresham Bruce Membrey
C: Billings Steven (C) Acres
HB: Ross Carlisle (VC) Clark
B: Roberton Austin Webster

R: Marshall, Steele, Hanneberry

I/C : Hickey/ Pierce, DP4 (Rankine or Wingard), D-Mac, Coffield

Emg: Sinclair, Phillips, Geary, Paton, Armo, Brown


Trade: Newnes or Dunstan, Longer or Hickey, Lonie and Weller.

Keep playing Marshall as forward / second ruck

I include Paddy speculatively but would prefer to trade him. If we hang onto him he has to earn the FF spot.

Either trade pick 4 for Wingard or somehow Shiel, or keep for best available.

This team, if coached by Ratten, would go alright.

[Spinner]

Nice post but a couple of suggestions:

- Steven is never going to be captain
- Carlisle is probably never going to be vice captain for totally different reasons
- for ease of reading and hopefully not just me... start w the backs and end w the forwards
- a bigger pet hate of mine, the rucks and rovers put at the bottom for clarity on who is on the wings and conforming to the system used by everyone barring The Age

[older saint]

F: Long McCartin Battle
HF: Gresham Bruce Membrey
C: Billings Marshall Steven (C)
Acres Hanneberry Steele
HB: Roberton Carlisle (VC) Clark
B: Coffield Austin Webster

I/C : Hickey/ Pierce, DP4 (Rankine or Wingard), D-Mac, Sinclair

Emg: Phillips, Geary, Paton, Armo, Brown


Trade: Newnes or Dunstan, Longer or Hickey, Lonie and Weller.

Keep playing Marshall as forward / second ruck

I include Paddy speculatively but would prefer to trade him. If we hang onto him he has to earn the FF spot.

Either trade pick 4 for Wingard or somehow Shiel, or keep for best available.

This team, if coached by Ratten, would go alright.

Probably bit top heavy forward , think one has to go or Bruce to CHB.
Wingard going to WB, Shiel i would take in a heartbeat.
Issue is we all see potential but will they ever get there...

Some hope with new game plan perhaps

[chico2001]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

[fugazi]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Oversight regarding Ross, and yes if it was Wingard he would start, as would Shiel, but if it is Rankine I'd be happy with him on the bench initially.
When I say alright, I also mean win 8-10 games. But who knows if they actually get some belief and kick straight....maybe fight it out for 8th spot?
It is too heavy forward line, but apart from Paddy they are all very mobile, I would love to see it.
I will amend the team to include Ross.

[St Plugger]

Whatever team people go with, it must have Marshall in it. He gets better every game he plays!

[mad saint guy]

The way I'm interpreting all the noise so far this off season is that we're going to land Hannebery, keep pick 4 and shuffle around some fringe players to get back into the draft. We'll probably land either Scrimshaw or Setterfield but I wouldn't expect either to make an immediate impact. It seems like we've missed out on all of the decent free agents, unfortunately. Just maybe one or two other quality players will see Hannebery coming over and that could give us a bit more credibility/relevance in their eyes, but I think a better showing in 2019 would see us primed to poach a Kelly/Shiel/Whitfield type at the end of next season.

I'm going to assume we trade out Dunstan, Weller, Longer, Lonie and Newnes to get a bit of presence in the 2nd/3rd rounds (although honestly none of them would have made my best 22 for next year anyway) and land either Scrimshaw or Setterfield.

B: Geary, Austin, Webster
HB: Roberton, Carlisle, McKenzie
C: Acres, Steele, Ross
HF: Billings, Marshall, Gresham
F: Long, Bruce, Membrey

Foll: Hickey, Steven, Hannebery
Int: Clark, Coffield, Sinclair, Smith/Rankine

With an improved game plan and mindset that team would be back around the middle tier of the competition in 2019. We just carried far too much deadwood in the 22 this season and Roberton, Acres, Long and Bruce are virtually new recruits on top of whoever we actually acquire from trade/draft/FA. Gresh seems primed to go to the next level, McKenzie put together some very good form to build off of and I can't wait to see what Marshall can do after another pre season in a professional environment.

[groupie1]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Ross butchers it - no spot for ball butcherers

I like this side a lot

Prefer Pierce to Hickey at this stage.
Prefer Paton in.

Brave ousting Gears and Ross. I like it, man.

Add Gaf or Wingard - I reckon we'll land one (given Polak squeezes Gaf out of North)

Carlisle for Captain, ala A Hamill; and I would personally love to bring in BJ for a year or two as VC.

[groupie1]

The way I'm interpreting all the noise so far this off season is that we're going to land Hannebery, keep pick 4 and shuffle around some fringe players to get back into the draft. We'll probably land either Scrimshaw or Setterfield but I wouldn't expect either to make an immediate impact. It seems like we've missed out on all of the decent free agents, unfortunately. Just maybe one or two other quality players will see Hannebery coming over and that could give us a bit more credibility/relevance in their eyes, but I think a better showing in 2019 would see us primed to poach a Kelly/Shiel/Whitfield type at the end of next season.

I'm going to assume we trade out Dunstan, Weller, Longer, Lonie and Newnes to get a bit of presence in the 2nd/3rd rounds (although honestly none of them would have made my best 22 for next year anyway) and land either Scrimshaw or Setterfield.

B: Geary, Austin, Webster
HB: Roberton, Carlisle, McKenzie
C: Acres, Steele, Ross
HF: Billings, Marshall, Gresham
F: Long, Bruce, Membrey

Foll: Hickey, Steven, Hannebery
Int: Clark, Coffield, Sinclair, Smith/Rankine

With an improved game plan and mindset that team would be back around the middle tier of the competition in 2019. We just carried far too much deadwood in the 22 this season and Roberton, Acres, Long and Bruce are virtually new recruits on top of whoever we actually acquire from trade/draft/FA. Gresh seems primed to go to the next level, McKenzie put together some very good form to build off of and I can't wait to see what Marshall can do after another pre season in a professional environment.

Huh!!!!!
No Josh Battle?

[groupie1]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Ross butchers it - no spot for ball butcherers

I like this side a lot

Prefer Pierce to Hickey at this stage.
Prefer Paton in.

Brave ousting Gears and Ross. I like it, man.

Add Gaf or Wingard - I reckon we'll land one (given Polak squeezes Gaf out of North)

Carlisle for Captain, ala A Hamill; and I would personally love to bring in BJ for a year or two as VC.

Plus, trading Ross gets us right back into the draft - say for Essendon's first pick - which we use to package McCartin, Weller, Lonie, and that pick for ;pick 1, grab Lukocious.

[mad saint guy]

Huh!!!!!
No Josh Battle?

I think Bruce, Marshall, McCartin and Battle are competing for two spots and the first two would be my pick right now. McCartin and Battle both have the ability to force their way in though

[groupie1]

Marshall as ruck back up; I do like the idea of trying Bruce in D as a Jeremy Howe type.

[cwrcyn]

Wingard is talented, but he's not a midfielder. You wouldn't give up pick 4 for a half forward, would you?

[Yorkeys]

We are assuming that J. Bruce and D. Roberton can come back strong from serious injuries/illness. J. Webster seems to have ongoing soft tissue problems and is struggling for continuity/consistent form. Also in the mix is White who seems back in favour or at least the coach is taking an interest in him and big things are anticipated for J. Battle - with good reason. If there is to be dramatic improvement I suspect it will be with the emergence of Paton, Clark, Clavarino, Langlands, Phillips, Coffield and natural improvement from Pierce and Billings together with some good trades, the first round draft pick and with Marshall, Battle and Pierce playing together consistently. We also need to have faith the coaching changes are going to bring improved results. Paddy hitting the scoreboard would be a bonus but history suggests at best cautious optimism in his case. I predict that the round side 2019 will be a pleasant surprise and have at least six players not mentioned anywhere in the teams above.

[freely]

I'm surprised we didn't play Phillips more this year - he seemed very relaxed, very comfortable at the level, very competent (sounds like damning with faint praise but it's more than you could say for a lot of em!)

[fugazi]

We are assuming that J. Bruce and D. Roberton can come back strong from serious injuries/illness. J. Webster seems to have ongoing soft tissue problems and is struggling for continuity/consistent form. Also in the mix is White who seems back in favour or at least the coach is taking an interest in him and big things are anticipated for J. Battle - with good reason. If there is to be dramatic improvement I suspect it will be with the emergence of Paton, Clark, Clavarino, Langlands, Phillips, Coffield and natural improvement from Pierce and Billings together with some good trades, the first round draft pick and with Marshall, Battle and Pierce playing together consistently. We also need to have faith the coaching changes are going to bring improved results. Paddy hitting the scoreboard would be a bonus but history suggests at best cautious optimism in his case. I predict that the round side 2019 will be a pleasant surprise and have at least six players not mentioned anywhere in the teams above.

Which 6 Yorkeys ? Paton, White, Phillips, Clavarino, Langlands, ...Shiel
Of those obviously Shiel, and possibly Paton White and Phillips would be pressuring for best 22.
Clavarino another year off. Langlands behind alot at this stage.

[chico2001]

Wingard is talented, but he's not a midfielder. You wouldn't give up pick 4 for a half forward, would you?

No you would'nt. Wingard wants $800k a year, and IMO is not better than Steven, Ross or Jack Steele for that matter. Leave him at PA.

[chico2001]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Ross butchers it - no spot for ball butcherers

I like this side a lot

Prefer Pierce to Hickey at this stage.
Prefer Paton in.

Brave ousting Gears and Ross. I like it, man.

Add Gaf or Wingard - I reckon we'll land one (given Polak squeezes Gaf out of North)

Carlisle for Captain, ala A Hamill; and I would personally love to bring in BJ for a year or two as VC.

Ross averages 30 possesions a game I read somewhere. I dont like using stats as the only measure of a players contribution but if he butchers it 10 times that means he has 20 efficient kicks/handpasses. Even the greats used to butcher a few when they got 30 possessions a game. Leaving him out of the team would be a mistake and a bigger mistake would be to trade him, thats crazy thinking.

[groupie1]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Ross butchers it - no spot for ball butcherers

I like this side a lot

Prefer Pierce to Hickey at this stage.
Prefer Paton in.

Brave ousting Gears and Ross. I like it, man.

Add Gaf or Wingard - I reckon we'll land one (given Polak squeezes Gaf out of North)

Carlisle for Captain, ala A Hamill; and I would personally love to bring in BJ for a year or two as VC.

Ross averages 30 possesions a game I read somewhere. I dont like using stats as the only measure of a players contribution but if he butchers it 10 times that means he has 20 efficient kicks/handpasses. Even the greats used to butcher a few when they got 30 possessions a game. Leaving him out of the team would be a mistake and a bigger mistake would be to trade him, thats crazy thinking.

What if he butchers it 25 times?

Basically, he's Jayson Daniels who doesn't chase or tag.
Would get excellent value in a trade, though.

[chico2001]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Ross butchers it - no spot for ball butcherers

I like this side a lot

Prefer Pierce to Hickey at this stage.
Prefer Paton in.

Brave ousting Gears and Ross. I like it, man.

Add Gaf or Wingard - I reckon we'll land one (given Polak squeezes Gaf out of North)

Carlisle for Captain, ala A Hamill; and I would personally love to bring in BJ for a year or two as VC.

Ross averages 30 possesions a game I read somewhere. I dont like using stats as the only measure of a players contribution but if he butchers it 10 times that means he has 20 efficient kicks/handpasses. Even the greats used to butcher a few when they got 30 possessions a game. Leaving him out of the team would be a mistake and a bigger mistake would be to trade him, thats crazy thinking.

What if he butchers it 25 times?

Basically, he's Jayson Daniels who doesn't chase or tag.
Would get excellent value in a trade, though.

So why would he be excellent value in a trade then? especially if he butchers it 25 times. I did love Jayson Daniels but he does not compare to Seb Ross with all respect to Jack.

[groupie1]

Agree with a couple of the things spinner has said. I would be pissed off if we got Wingard at his price of $800k a year and surprised you would have a $800k a year player coming off the bench. That team is not much different than we had this year..three inclusions, Bruce, Roberton and Hannnebery. No doubt another recruit will be there somewhere, hopefully a midfielder. As i said in another post today, a lot of SS posters dont like Ross for some reason and he is not in your side. Hannebery apparently described Ross as a star and in near AA form this year so he is going to annoyed when he gets here then....lol...fun times. When you say alright Fugazi I presume you mean make the 8. I think if that side played well then they may win 8-9 games...cheers

Ross butchers it - no spot for ball butcherers

I like this side a lot

Prefer Pierce to Hickey at this stage.
Prefer Paton in.

Brave ousting Gears and Ross. I like it, man.

Add Gaf or Wingard - I reckon we'll land one (given Polak squeezes Gaf out of North)

Carlisle for Captain, ala A Hamill; and I would personally love to bring in BJ for a year or two as VC.

Ross averages 30 possesions a game I read somewhere. I dont like using stats as the only measure of a players contribution but if he butchers it 10 times that means he has 20 efficient kicks/handpasses. Even the greats used to butcher a few when they got 30 possessions a game. Leaving him out of the team would be a mistake and a bigger mistake would be to trade him, thats crazy thinking.

What if he butchers it 25 times?

Basically, he's Jayson Daniels who doesn't chase or tag.
Would get excellent value in a trade, though.

So why would he be excellent value in a trade then? especially if he butchers it 25 times. I did love Jayson Daniels but he does not compare to Seb Ross with all respect to Jack.

You're right, it is unfair on Seb. But he does roost it high a lot. Any1 who gets the ball that often, with class around him, would be worth having if you don't have a bull (his job would be to handball only). I just think with Hannerbury coming in, and already good contested possession winners, we need outside class more than inside bull, but in a team like Essendon, Richmond, I think he'd be valuable.

[groupie1]

Lemme pose it another way: would you trade Ross for a top 15 pick?

[chico2001]

Yes his kicking is shabby but I think that can be addressed by a good coach and Ross has got upside for sure. I wouldn't trade him for a top 15 pick. I am a believer in the "one in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" motto. He is a very recent B&F winner and finished 2nd this year albeit in a weak side.He is very valuable to this side and if we can get another top class mid fielder and a good ruckman the side would improve big time. If you let him go to one of the big sides he would play in a flag.

[groupie1]

Yes his kicking is shabby but I think that can be addressed by a good coach and Ross has got upside for sure. I wouldn't trade him for a top 15 pick. I am a believer in the "one in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" motto. He is a very recent B&F winner and finished 2nd this year albeit in a weak side.He is very valuable to this side and if we can get another top class mid fielder and a good ruckman the side would improve big time. If you let him go to one of the big sides he would play in a flag.

Accept your points entirely. I guess we agree to disagree. My motive would be the use of that 15 and/or the Hickey pick, with a package to get the higher GC pick and have two in the Top 10 or another top flight player coming in; perhaps Gaff if we're still in the running. (I've got ambitions for a pick plus McCartin, Weller & co to get Lukocious... but I know its unlikely). Mind you, I did like Seb last year. This year I felt he'd dropped right back.

[chico2001]

I dont think many of the saints players that are average types...i.e Dunstan, weller Hickey etc will get you much. Saints record for recruiting/trading over the past few years has been poor. The only way we will get a win is trade pick 4 for an elite player or just pay a FA a shedful of money provided they are top of the range. Most of the very good players who are FA today are staying put or going to other clubs. There might still be some bargains out there like a Jack steele. If you trade Ross then the idea is to replace him right !!! with a better midfielder. I am not convinced about that tactic because as I have said, Ross just needs a tidy up and he could make the AA squad. The team needs to have a good year in 2019 and then I think FA from 2019 end might be attracted to the club - recruit them and then by 2020 we might be pushing hard for a top 8 spot. That is if everything goes perfectly. Like plenty of others I dont think the senior administrators from the club will be able to manage that.