Longer Marshall combination

[To the top]

v Adelaide Longer was thrashed in the ruck contests with Adelaide’s mids receiving an armchair ride and domination in clearances - and who was their ruckman?

Further, Longer had no impact around the ground contributing to us being comprehensively thrashed overhead

At one stage we “snuck” Longer forward from the interchange - and attacked except Longer forgot to put his hands above his head - and the reaction of all around us in the AFL Member’s Reserve was what it was

Adelaide rebounded for a goal

Unfortunately we got rid of the wrong player, to the Premier Club no less and where Hickey’s contributions have been what they have been even in a beaten side - and I am one who discounts Geelong’s home wins

There is no comparison between Hickey and Longer - hence there were no offers to recruit Longer to deliver the Draft Pick St Kilda sought for the reasons they did

Hickey is now with the 2018 Premiers - and the first choice selection to lead their rucks

Look at his stats against the Premiership leading Geelong

Marshall may be a default ruck choice because of options in regard the need today to have 20 footballers on the park

But the facts are that Marshall also has left Longer in his wake - as Longer’s contribution against Adelaide confirmed

When we were under pressure overhead that pressure was increased by the lack of contest from Longer who simply can not cover the ground

[Crossy66]

v Adelaide Longer was thrashed in the ruck contests with Adelaide’s mids receiving an armchair ride and domination in clearances - and who was their ruckman?

"Further, Longer had no impact around the ground contributing to us being comprehensively thrashed overhead"

At one stage we “snuck” Longer forward from the interchange - and attacked except Longer forgot to put his hands above his head - and the reaction of all around us in the AFL Member’s Reserve was what it was

Adelaide rebounded for a goal

Unfortunately we got rid of the wrong player, to the Premier Club no less and where Hickey’s contributions have been what they have been even in a beaten side - and I am one who discounts Geelong’s home wins

There is no comparison between Hickey and Longer - hence there were no offers to recruit Longer to deliver the Draft Pick St Kilda sought for the reasons they did

Hickey is now with the 2018 Premiers - and the first choice selection to lead their rucks

Look at his stats against the Premiership leading Geelong

Marshall may be a default ruck choice because of options in regard the need today to have 20 footballers on the park

But the facts are that Marshall also has left Longer in his wake - as Longer’s contribution against Adelaide confirmed

When we were under pressure overhead that pressure was increased by the lack of contest from Longer who simply can not cover the ground

Interesting take.

v Adelaide Longer was thrashed in the ruck contests with Adelaide’s mids receiving an armchair ride and domination in clearances - and who was their ruckman?

Longer carried a knee into the game hence the heavy strapping and the reduced ability to jump. It also prevented him training so far this week.
Longers direct opponent was O'Brien who only had one more disposal ( handball) than Billy who had one more mark. So no thrashing around the ground. Also if you watch the replay, notice how often there was a pack mark when Billy contested. Obrien had +4 hitouts to advantage and btw, clearance have more to do with midfielder positioning than the ruckman. strange but true.

[i"]Further, Longer had no impact around the ground contributing to us being comprehensively thrashed overhead[/i]"

Just not true. Longer took more marks than his direct opponent and halved a number of the contests. We were beaten overhead due to lack of experienced talls in the backline and the blind bombing of the ball into the forward line partly due to Bruce being on one leg.

Look at his stats against the Premiership leading Geelong

He played on Stanley! Seriously! Both would have gone home without a bruise. How did Tom fare the weeks before against Port, Freo, Collingwood that have ruckmen?

I just dont understand why the collective you keeping trying to find positives and keep promoting players that dont wear a saints jumper.
Facts are that Stanley and Hickey are 4 years older than Longer and 6 older than Marshall and didnt show much when they played with us.
Facts are that Marshall got the opportunity and is miles ahead of Hickey and is 6 years younger and we got Hannabery as well.
Billy is probably in 2nd place, on a one year deal so its up to him if he want to seize the oppoortunity. Personally I think he can, just dont know how much he wants it.

No problem with you or anyone supporting Tom and Stanley, but it probably belongs on the BF West Coast / Geelong boards.

[To the top]

It is a given that all players on an AFL List can play the game - otherwise they would not have survived the Draft process

Once in a List (and they are 18 year olds having only played at that level and as mids because that is where you play your best players at Under Age level plus size can tell which is an advantage lost in Senior footy) the next step is to teach them tram patterns and fit them into those patterns (which is where St Kilda have lagged until Ratten so their is now structure and contribution to structure education)

Frankly, as confirmed v Adelaide, Longer dies not fit into team patterns - patterns which result in the “fast” footy we see (or the impression of “fast” footy because patterns give that impression)

To resort to an excuse that Longer had a bing knee is ........ well words fail me

The education of this side now is to fit specific abilities into team patterns - each with their responsibilities (so honouring each other because you know where you are going and who and what is there)

My view is that the game has moved past “knock ruckmen” and particularly “knock ruckmen” where the excuse is he has a bung knee

By necessity, and absent Hickey (Ratten particularity to be in involved in recruitment into the future?), we have the revelation of Marshall in advance of where we would have thought he would develop to (and just as well)

[older saint]

Longer Marshall combination, Marshall at StKilda, Longer at Sandringham

[sunsaint]

No problem with you or anyone supporting Tom and Stanley, but it probably belongs on the BF West Coast / Geelong boards.

why is that when someone compares our list to other teams - you are immediately labelled a traitor or get told to go barrack for the other side. Pretty certain when the ball gets bounced our players are compared directly with the other 18
And also why is that when the names like McEvoy Stanley Hickey - they were cr@p with us but sought after and perfectly serviceable for (dare I say it) better sides than us

[Scollop]

I just dont understand why the collective you keeping trying to find positives and keep promoting players that dont wear a saints jumper.

Facts are that Stanley and Hickey are 4 years older than Longer and 6 older than Marshall and didnt show much when they played with us.

Facts are that Marshall got the opportunity and is miles ahead of Hickey

Marshall is called the 'Prospect' because there is a lot of potential there, but let's not overstate where his career is at. He's played 17 games in total for the seniors in 3 years. He needs to prove he can play out a season or two and show durability and consistency. The same with King when he starts his AFL journey. If we treat Max King the way we did Stanley and McEvoy and also Hickey, half the Saints fans will want him leaving before he matures and before we get to see his best football

We get pissed off seeing Stanley play well because I believe they weren't valued. If we'd picked up or traded in A graders maybe it'd be different but we didn't. Let's assume we see some flashes of brilliance from King and meanwhile Marshall plays some shockers. We shouldn't be quick to label a player and shouldn't write off players too quick either.

Stanley always just needed time. I believe with McEvoy and also Stanley we would've had a fantastic combination but perhaps Cho thought he had a 'prospect' in Longer. The other issue or problem that some of us have with the trading out of Stanley and also the treatment of Hickey (especially in 2017) was that we wanted them to be stars each week and we wanted them to be Dean Cox and Max Gawn put together when they didn't need to be.

We weren't even close to being contenders so the fact that we were impatient means that we lost very good players to our opponents

[Crossy66]

No problem with you or anyone supporting Tom and Stanley, but it probably belongs on the BF West Coast / Geelong boards.

why is that when someone compares our list to other teams - you are immediately labelled a traitor or get told to go barrack for the other side. Pretty certain when the ball gets bounced our players are compared directly with the other 18
And also why is that when the names like McEvoy Stanley Hickey - they were cr@p with us but sought after and perfectly serviceable for (dare I say it) better sides than us

Not sure who you are referring to, but i didnt label any one a traitor I hope stanley and hickey have good careers so good on them.( as long as they have an off day against the saints).
But neither play for stkilda, so at some point you need to move on.

[Crossy66]

I just dont understand why the collective you keeping trying to find positives and keep promoting players that dont wear a saints jumper.

Facts are that Stanley and Hickey are 4 years older than Longer and 6 older than Marshall and didnt show much when they played with us.

Facts are that Marshall got the opportunity and is miles ahead of Hickey

Marshall is called the 'Prospect' because there is a lot of potential there, but let's not overstate where his career is at. He's played 17 games in total for the seniors in 3 years. He needs to prove he can play out a season or two and show durability and consistency. The same with King when he starts his AFL journey. If we treat Max King the way we did Stanley and McEvoy and also Hickey, half the Saints fans will want him leaving before he matures and before we get to see his best football

We get pissed off seeing Stanley play well because I believe they weren't valued. If we'd picked up or traded in A graders maybe it'd be different but we didn't. Let's assume we see some flashes of brilliance from King and meanwhile Marshall plays some shockers. We shouldn't be quick to label a player and shouldn't write off players too quick either.

Stanley always just needed time. I believe with McEvoy and also Stanley we would've had a fantastic combination but perhaps Cho thought he had a 'prospect' in Longer. The other issue or problem that some of us have with the trading out of Stanley and also the treatment of Hickey (especially in 2017) was that we wanted them to be stars each week and we wanted them to be Dean Cox and Max Gawn put together when they didn't need to be.

We weren't even close to being contenders so the fact that we were impatient means that we lost very good players to our opponents

On exposed form, i would take marshall over hickey - thats not overstating where marshall is at. He has gone way past him already.The club obviously came to the same conclusion. Hickey and longer are different types and marshall is more the hickey type, just a better version. If hanna comes good it will be appear to be an astute trade.
As far as stanley goes, he teased us for so long, probably since the gf sprint but only showed occasional glimpses. S
I would have preferred to keep him as he was about 25 when he was moved on.
Hard to tell if its him maturing as a big frlla or whether T
he is doing better with the 666 rule.
Either way, neither play for us so time to move on i think

[To the top]

We have moved on

Brown and Longer, neither of whom contribute to the team pattern v Adelaide, have been dropped

The List is being coached to a pattern and that pattern sees responsibility and commitment such that you are where you need to be on the park at any particular time and during any particular play (including when the other side has the ball)

This has been a neglected area in the development of our List - and now they are being educated on their responsibility, how and why

So when you look up the option is where you expect it to be - and why

You don’t just go out and get a kick

[Crossy66]

It is a given that all players on an AFL List can play the game - otherwise they would not have survived the Draft process

Once in a List (and they are 18 year olds having only played at that level and as mids because that is where you play your best players at Under Age level plus size can tell which is an advantage lost in Senior footy) the next step is to teach them tram patterns and fit them into those patterns (which is where St Kilda have lagged until Ratten so their is now structure and contribution to structure education)

Frankly, as confirmed v Adelaide, Longer dies not fit into team patterns - patterns which result in the “fast” footy we see (or the impression of “fast” footy because patterns give that impression)

To resort to an excuse that Longer had a bing knee is ........ well words fail me

The education of this side now is to fit specific abilities into team patterns - each with their responsibilities (so honouring each other because you know where you are going and who and what is there)

My view is that the game has moved past “knock ruckmen” and particularly “knock ruckmen” where the excuse is he has a bung knee

By necessity, and absent Hickey (Ratten particularity to be in involved in recruitment into the future?), we have the revelation of Marshall in advance of where we would have thought he would develop to (and just as well)

So your narrative has changed from longer got thrashed in the ruck and thrashed around the ground to you thinking he doesnt fit into team patterns.
You may be correct but i dont know this to be a fact and i assume this is just your opinion, just the same as ratten been credited for our new structure.
But i can tell you that longer is carrying an injury.
Marshall on exposed form would get picked over hickey hands down.
Either way my main point was that neither hickey or stanley play for the saints, and atleast in hickeys case, it appears an astute decision, so time to move on i think

[Crossy66]

We have moved on

Brown and Longer, neither of whom contribute to the team pattern v Adelaide, have been dropped

The List is being coached to a pattern and that pattern sees responsibility and commitment such that you are where you need to be on the park at any particular time and during any particular play (including when the other side has the ball)

This has been a neglected area in the development of our List - and now they are being educated on their responsibility, how and why

So when you look up the option is where you expect it to be - and why

You don’t just go out and get a kick

No. Moving on is forgetting about stanley, hickey and ian stewart. Look forward not back . Marshall Has grabbed his opportunity with both hands and for a big bloke with 19 games under his belt, he couldnt do much more.
Nathan Brown, assuming he is fit, is a big decision, but there was some talk at the start of the week that there probably wasnt a good match up for him. Imagine Brown on cameron?

[Scollop]

As far as stanley goes, he teased us for so long, probably since the gf sprint but only showed occasional glimpses. S
I would have preferred to keep him as he was about 25 when he was moved on.
Hard to tell if its him maturing as a big frlla or whether T
he is doing better with the 666 rule.
Either way, neither play for us so time to move on i think

Granted it's taken Rhys a while, and I agree that we should have persevered. He is definitely now seen as a vital cog for Geelong to go all the way. Last year when Geelong were playing good footy Stanley was amongst their best players and he starred late in games when the game was there to be won. Nothing to do with this years new rule changes or 666. Good try though. Plus you believed he 'teased you' because of the way he ran in an insignificant race. Seriously?!!

That's part of the problem you and others have in assessing a player if you even want to even mention the sprint. Your expectations need to be lowered on our young new players. Don't be too dissappointed if Marshall or Clark or King put in some shockers. They are developing and if the coaches have that sort of attitude they'll be looking to on trade them before they mature

[Crossy66]

As far as stanley goes, he teased us for so long, probably since the gf sprint but only showed occasional glimpses. S
I would have preferred to keep him as he was about 25 when he was moved on.
Hard to tell if its him maturing as a big frlla or whether T
he is doing better with the 666 rule.
Either way, neither play for us so time to move on i think

Granted it's taken Rhys a while, and I agree that we should have persevered. He is definitely now seen as a vital cog for Geelong to go all the way. Last year when Geelong were playing good footy Stanley was amongst their best players and he starred late in games when the game was there to be won. Nothing to do with this years new rule changes or 666. Good try though. Plus you believed he 'teased you' because of the way he ran in an insignificant race. Seriously?!!

That's part of the problem you and others have in assessing a player if you even want to even mention the sprint. Your expectations need to be lowered on our young new players. Don't be too dissappointed if Marshall or Clark or King put in some shockers. They are developing and if the coaches have that sort of attitude they'll be looking to on trade them before they mature

I dont have unrealistic expectations of any of the players you mentioned, simply commented on how well marshall has performed , no mention of clark , king or anyone else. nor do i have problems assessing players based on irrelevant events.
The reference to stanley and the infamous grand final sprint and the importance many placed on it has been a running joke for years.

[ace]

Definitely something wrong with either our recruiting, trading or use of ruckmen!

It was always clear - to me at least - that McEvoy was going to be a very good player.

Hickey - after a super 2016 season - was inexplicably demoted to second ruck. Again, it was clear that he was a better footballer than Longer. No wonder he didn't develop after Longer was prefered and RIcho's plans didn't extend to playing a second ruckman.

As for Stanley, we tried to turn him into a key forward. That was the thinking at the time but he's since proved a very capable ruckman.

So yes, I agree

But, but, but,
Longer is a superior ruckman to Hickey.
I know this to be fact because Stonecold told me so.

<1 day ban for baiting>

[aaron82]

Remember when Scott Watters tried to turn Stanley into a full back!

His best position moving forward was always going to be as a ruckman. I recall him having a huge game against Kruezer and then a week later ripping a hamstring in the first quarter against Natuanui at Subiaco.

At the time we had McEvoy as well.

As someone stated earlier, it wouldn't look so bad if we recruited a good player with 21 but we took Goddard and he unfortunately ripped an Achilles rendering him slower than a day at work.

Stanley is a very good player being used in his best position now.

[Dis Believer]

Any combination that involves Longer is always going to have a very weak link......

[Yorkeys]

Billy just doesn't seem to hurt or intimidate enough to make up for a lack of anticipation. Could he not have creamed Keath in a contest at least once in the last game to get him looking for the short rising ball of his youth, late but clumsy like and bruising. Mumford scares the opposition, rightly so. I am not sure anyone is timid when Billy is near. Wrong? I have seen Marshall carry a tackler with him, hardly break stride, palm the guy off and still deliver: I thought this really is a Marvel event and was that superhero wearing our jumper. Stanley was timid with us and Ben a shadow of his hawk self, so well done to them in their new clubs - was it us, was it them, only a relationship counsellor would know.

[samuraisaint]

Longer should be playing today against Mumford. This is exactly the type of game we do need him for. I believe this is an incorrect decision made at selection table. Sorry.

[bigcarl]

Longer should be playing today against Mumford. This is exactly the type of game we do need him for. I believe this is an incorrect decision made at selection table. Sorry.

I tend to agree. Wouldn’t put it past Marshall to have a win here as he can certainly expose Mumford for agility and ability, but Mumford’s knees to the kidneys are a concern.

[Ghost Like]

Sorry Samurai, I disagree on this one. I see this as exactly the opportunity for Marshall to announce himself. Marshall strikes me as a smiling assassin, I think he enjoys the challenges and the rough stuff, knowing he's got most ruckmen covered around the ground and skill wise.

[samuraisaint]

Sorry Samurai, I disagree on this one. I see this as exactly the opportunity for Marshall to announce himself. Marshall strikes me as a smiling assassin, I think he enjoys the challenges and the rough stuff, knowing he's got most ruckmen covered around the ground and skill wise.

How many possessions did Bruce get today? I think a second ruckman would've helped.

[The_President]

The only thing that’s certain is that Marshall isn’t going anywhere.
22 touches
27 hitouts
Equal game high 9 clearances
14 contested
2 goals

[ace]

Definitely something wrong with either our recruiting, trading or use of ruckmen!

It was always clear - to me at least - that McEvoy was going to be a very good player.

Hickey - after a super 2016 season - was inexplicably demoted to second ruck. Again, it was clear that he was a better footballer than Longer. No wonder he didn't develop after Longer was prefered and RIcho's plans didn't extend to playing a second ruckman.

As for Stanley, we tried to turn him into a key forward. That was the thinking at the time but he's since proved a very capable ruckman.

So yes, I agree

But, but, but,
Longer is a superior ruckman to Hickey.
I know this to be fact because Stonecold told me so.

<1 day ban for baiting>

Spent the whole day fishing and didn't catch anything.
Baiting is over rated.

[Ape_Man]

The only thing that’s certain is that Marshall isn’t going anywhere.
22 touches
27 hitouts
Equal game high 9 clearances
14 contested
2 goals

Not a bad day for Marshall.

Is going to be an absolute weapon.

[saynta]

Sorry Samurai, I disagree on this one. I see this as exactly the opportunity for Marshall to announce himself. Marshall strikes me as a smiling assassin, I think he enjoys the challenges and the rough stuff, knowing he's got most ruckmen covered around the ground and skill wise.

How many possessions did Bruce get today? I think a second ruckman would've helped.

6 or 7 from memory.