Bingo. Yep. You get the chocolates. Better memory than me.
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No. I can assure you that Hawthorn's teams of the mid/late 80's had some rope but a very short leash under Jeans and John Hook. By contrast, Lockett cracked the sh!ts with the Sheldon/Hudson duo because Hudson wanted them to be more professional and train more often. Bye bye Huddo.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 1:30pmDidn't all star players do whatever they wanted at all clubs during the 80s and 90s though?Saintmatt wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 1:23pmUmmmm - I'll give you two. Lockett and Winmar being able to do pretty much anything and everything on their terms in the late 80's / early 90's ...BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 11:05amI hear that a bit, but am not sure of the other examples that make it 'typical'?
Watters also conveniently forgets that he was expressly forbidden from speaking with the media and yet, he called SEN himself to get on the front foot to control his narrative. The Board sacked him basically because he went rogue.
THISSaintmatt wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 3:09pm Quite frankly - I blame our sh!tshow of an administration and Board for it all. If ever a business school wants to create an MBA subject entitled "Mismanagement"- they should hire Nettlefold, Fraser, Westaway, Pelchen, Drain, Hutchison and Elshaugh as guest lecturers.
Which part am I "way off the mark" on? I stated the rebuild has taken 7 or 8 years. (i.e. 2011/12). My take on that was that was the period Lyon moved on and they tried to re-profile the list. I would agree that in a linear sense - the list improvement has been ok since then. Not stellar but ok. I, like many others, will still rue Cho's penchant for endlessly playing favourites when others could've been tried and tested (and discarded earlier if needs be) instead.To the top wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 3:17pm Way off the mark, StMatt.
I have put on here that the rebuild of the St Kilda List commenced from the Draft where we obtained the services of Billings, Dunstan and Acres - and that that rebuild, due to a number of events, some of which Watters refers to, commenced from nothing (noting the ages of Fisher, Roo and Montagna as our only 3 class players who remained from the GF years - the remainder being Lyon "Role" players at best hence our spiral down the drain to bottom).
The improvement in our List since that time has actually been satisfactory - noting the bad luck with McCartin (our only Number 1 Pick so fingers and everything else crossed - whilst there is life there is hope) and Goddard plus the absence so far of King.
You just have to hope and prey that from both a business perspective and football, the current board have some real nous...or we are stuffedTo the top wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 4:04pm There were a raft of issues with Moorrabbin back in the day, including particularly with the local Council (and before that the Social Club/Football Club impasse which bankrupted the Football Club and would have seen its disappearance but for Lindsay Fox)
So what happened happened
Hopefully there are wiser heads this time around - on all sides.
You can correctly say that what happened should never have happened but what was the option at that time?
I demand a full report on said Fluxxing!Saintmatt wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 4:01pm So - during their combined tenures, both coaches had access to some or all of the above GF era players (in addition to Roo, Joey and Chips). Yet - instead of trying to build the next gen team around them - they fluxxed and flumoxxed instead (and/or did their level best to put them off-side and/or retire them).
Great question; well asked!Premium89 wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 5:10pmI demand a full report on said Fluxxing!Saintmatt wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 4:01pm So - during their combined tenures, both coaches had access to some or all of the above GF era players (in addition to Roo, Joey and Chips). Yet - instead of trying to build the next gen team around them - they fluxxed and flumoxxed instead (and/or did their level best to put them off-side and/or retire them).
Nor that he went to an assistant coaches house on Christmas morning and dragged him away from his wife and kids. No wonder he lost the support of the coaching group.
Well said, this podcast has changed my opinion on Scott Watters, he tried to change the Saints so they sacked him, mediocrity is inherent in the club's culture and won't be changed for anyone.DownAtTheJunction wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 12:02pmI believe Scott Watters was very poorly treated. I never heard him undermining his players, but to have him denigrated and humiliated is a stain on our history. There are opportunities for players to voice an opinion, but it needs to be given with respect. The Board failed Watters by not upholding the basic standards a coach should expect. This is not a comment on his abilities as a coach, although he clearly has support outside our club.spert wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 11:02am He walked into a wreck and I wouldn't have taken on the job if I was him. I have spoken to dads of a couple of young players in the past who played under him, and the young guys liked him, but apparently some of the older players egos were so huge and were not prepared to be told how to do anything after failing in the finals campaigns under Lyon, and continually sooked to the directors and whoever would listen, so that was pretty much the end of Watters. It was a typical tail St Kilda wagging the dog scenario that has hounded the club in its history and has resulted in years of no premierships.
The problem has always been our board. Full of St Kilda people who fall in love with our best players and put them above what’s best for a powerful club. Like us, all they want to see us one more flag and that type of desperation shows when they fail to think of next year when we get close. All our chips were in one basket for 09 and 10. I don’t blame Lyon. I blame the St Kilda board which has been inept and weak for a long time. Full of either egomaniacs like Thomas and Butterss or bureaucrats with no guts or passion like Westaway and Summers. These people had been at the top in their own business for so long they knew it in their sleep. They took the same approach to running st Kilda- they were asleep at the wheel. The board appointed Archie ‘seaford’ Fraser as CEO. The board appointed Ross ‘there is no tomorrow’ Lyon. We need to seriously find a more effective way to appoint these people. Maybe it’s the club’s constitution that needs to change.spert wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 11:02am He walked into a wreck and I wouldn't have taken on the job if I was him. I have spoken to dads of a couple of young players in the past who played under him, and the young guys liked him, but apparently some of the older players egos were so huge and were not prepared to be told how to do anything after failing in the finals campaigns under Lyon, and continually sooked to the directors and whoever would listen, so that was pretty much the end of Watters. It was a typical tail St Kilda wagging the dog scenario that has hounded the club in its history and has resulted in years of no premierships.
I think if you actually read the previous posts you'll find plenty who agree with you.evertonfc wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 8:02pm Fair dinkum, did anyone listen?
Or did you just hit the outrage button as quick as you could?!
I’m listening to it now, picking up a lot of truisms about some of the selfish behaviours of some...which, to be honest, many of us were unhappy about at the time.
Not limited to, but including:
The excessive partying, the lack of focus after 2010, the over-payment of players who had mentally checked-out, the half-arsed training and the amazing disrespect shown to supporters by a glut of indulgent players, staff and executives.
Christ, Watters might be disappointed about how it ended, and I don’t like some of his decisions (greenvesting Kosi, etc) but we could sure pick up a few insights in the cool light of day.
This was a time when the club had set its course to become a basketcase. He might not have been the best coach - or even the right coach - but he wasn’t a total muppet.
Yeah, nah, he was a total muppet. Doesn't mean that everything he said was untrue. But he was certainly incapable of making a difference. Good on him for trying to paint himself in the best light. Did he mention the fact that we didn't win the 2010 flag? And he had to deal with all those players that didn't win the 2010 flag, which must have come as a surprise to him, but at least he let them know that they didn't win the 2010 flag.evertonfc wrote: ↑Wed 31 Jul 2019 8:02pm Fair dinkum, did anyone listen?
Or did you just hit the outrage button as quick as you could?!
I’m listening to it now, picking up a lot of truisms about some of the selfish behaviours of some...which, to be honest, many of us were unhappy about at the time.
Not limited to, but including:
The excessive partying, the lack of focus after 2010, the over-payment of players who had mentally checked-out, the half-arsed training and the amazing disrespect shown to supporters by a glut of indulgent players, staff and executives.
Christ, Watters might be disappointed about how it ended, and I don’t like some of his decisions (greenvesting Kosi, etc) but we could sure pick up a few insights in the cool light of day.
This was a time when the club had set its course to become a basketcase. He might not have been the best coach - or even the right coach - but he wasn’t a total muppet.