Carlisle staying

[theoracle]

For those of you who aren’t Herald Sun subscribers:

Jake Carlisle to stay at Saints as Brett Ratten plots future of St Kilda list

Despite growing speculation he might be traded, St Kilda has told Jake Carlisle he is a required player next year. And with the coach locked in, St Kilda is targeting some fresh blood.
Jon Ralph, Herald Sun

Jake Carlisle will play at St Kilda next year but will have to wait until the season proper before the Saints will consider a contract extension.
Carlisle’s manager Anthony McConville told the Herald Sun the Saints had told the key back he was a required player for 2020 despite intensifying trade speculation.
On the day Brett Ratten was appointed for the next three seasons he was non-committal about the club’s trade position.
But McConville said Carlisle, 28 next month, would play out the last year of his contract after hitting a games-based contract clause.
Adelaide defender Alex Keath toured Moorabbin this week but the Western Bulldogs are still considered the favourites to secure his services on a three or four-year deal.
It means Carlisle is a critical element of the club’s back six with questions over Dylan Roberton’s heart issues and key defenders Logan Austin and Oscar Clavarino still maturing.
“We have caught up with St Kilda and there are no issues whatsoever,” McConville said.
“They want him to go on next year and we are happy for him to play there next year.
“Outside of that we don’t know where the noise is coming from but we can’t stop that.
“His exit interview was very positive and we have agreed to visit things (with his contract) next year. That’s probably fair given his back injury this year. He has been an extremely resilient player.
“We will let the pre-season unfold and hopefully they will have a fit and healthy Jake Carlisle next year.”
Carlisle finished fourth in the Saints best-and-fairest after returning from an ASADA ban and was sixth from 17 games last year, before only 10 games because of a back injury this year.
The Saints will aggressively target Sydney’s Zak Jones and are certain to land contracted Fremantle wingman Brad Hill.
GWS wingman Adam Tomlinson, shattered to be dropped after 53 consecutive games and with no warning from the Giants coaches this week, could also find himself at the Saints.
He has several suitors in Melbourne and ideally would like to stay at GWS but with the Giants cap tight he might be forced to accept security and a bigger salary at St Kilda or another Victorian club.

[st.byron]

Personally I’d be glad to see him move on. Feels like time for a big clean out, not just based on skills, but also on attitude.

[The_Dud]

I’m happy to keep Carlisle, hopefully an injury free pre season and improved game plan will have him firing next year

[SemperFidelis]

Happy to keep if fit. We deserve to actually realise his potential.

[The Fireman]

I’m happy to keep Carlisle, hopefully an injury free pre season and improved game plan will have him firing next year

+1

[Linton Lodger]

Great news, love Big Jake.

Perhaps he just needs a 'work ethic' lecture from BM.

[Sanctorum]

Initially I didn't mind the idea of Carlisle being traded out, but in reality his loss would have been hard to replace - if he can regain full fitness next year and with refreshed guidance from the new coaches there is every chance that he will get back to the elite level that he achieved with the Bombers.

At 201 cm his talents should perhaps be redirected to partner Rowan Marshall in the ruck, helping out in defence or attack, as required. Although he made it clear at Essendon that he preferred to be a key defender, I would like to think that he has now matured sufficiently to understand that the club has every right to deploy him wherever they feel he is needed most.

[oldie60]

Should not have played this year and left to recover fully. The attitude could have been the fact that he knew he could not perform to the required level which would demonstrate his frustration. You could clearly see he was no where near the player from early last season. Let him re-hab and get a strong pre-season then make judgement. If we are going to rely on poor Josh Battle to take a key forward then he will become our next Sam Gilbert, Sean Dempster or Sam Fisher playing against the monster forwards week in week out.

[The Linton Street Flash]

Why isn’t Big Jake the guy we’re targeting as a #2 ruck/resting forward, and Keath poached as his replacement as a intercept defender?

Surely it makes perfect sense?

He’s huge, he’s mobile (when fit) and he’s a proven goal kicker.

I don’t buy this crap about how he prefers to play defence, has anyone ever heard him actually say it, or is it just some nonsense concocted by the media? - surely he’d want to play whatever role that the team requires of him, and kicking goals to the roar of a big crowd would be pretty infectious.

I like Big Jake and think he could be a major bonus if we were seriously making a push into the 8.

Keep him, reinvent him, and thank Linty for being the mastermind behind our 2020 Premiership!

[CQ SAINT]

Should not have played this year and left to recover fully. The attitude could have been the fact that he knew he could not perform to the required level which would demonstrate his frustration. You could clearly see he was no where near the player from early last season. Let him re-hab and get a strong pre-season then make judgement. If we are going to rely on poor Josh Battle to take a key forward then he will become our next Sam Gilbert, Sean Dempster or Sam Fisher playing against the monster forwards week in week out.

Had he not played he would not have triggered his new contract, completely changing the dynamics of
1. A new contract or
2. his value as a prospective recruit/trade.
He could have forced us to delist him into free agency and you can bet your peanuts that McConville had already shopped him around and didn't like the numbers.

[Scollop]

Should not have played this year and left to recover fully. The attitude could have been the fact that he knew he could not perform to the required level which would demonstrate his frustration. You could clearly see he was no where near the player from early last season. Let him re-hab and get a strong pre-season then make judgement. If we are going to rely on poor Josh Battle to take a key forward then he will become our next Sam Gilbert, Sean Dempster or Sam Fisher playing against the monster forwards week in week out.

Had he not played he would not have triggered his new contract, completely changing the dynamics of
1. A new contract or
2. his value as a prospective recruit/trade.
He could have forced us to delist him into free agency and you can bet your peanuts that McConville had already shopped him around and didn't like the numbers.

Serious question: What sort of influence does a player manager have on team selection?

[saintsRrising]

He could have forced us to delist him into free agency

No he couldn't.

If a player is made an offer he cannot become a DFA.

A player does not have to accept what he is offered, but he then has to seek a new club via the draft. Being a DFA is specifically excluded if a contract if offered. That of course means that large $ are problematic.

[CQ SAINT]

He could have forced us to delist him into free agency

No he couldn't.

If a player is made an offer he cannot become a DFA.

A player does not have to accept what he is offered, but he then has to seek a new club via the draft. Being a DFA is specifically excluded if a contract if offered. That of course means that large $ are problematic.

So you believe the trigger clause was only configured to benefit the club?

[CQ SAINT]

Should not have played this year and left to recover fully. The attitude could have been the fact that he knew he could not perform to the required level which would demonstrate his frustration. You could clearly see he was no where near the player from early last season. Let him re-hab and get a strong pre-season then make judgement. If we are going to rely on poor Josh Battle to take a key forward then he will become our next Sam Gilbert, Sean Dempster or Sam Fisher playing against the monster forwards week in week out.

Had he not played he would not have triggered his new contract, completely changing the dynamics of
1. A new contract or
2. his value as a prospective recruit/trade.
He could have forced us to delist him into free agency and you can bet your peanuts that McConville had already shopped him around and didn't like the numbers.

Serious question: What sort of influence does a player manager have on team selection?

I'd say it depends more on the contract. So a good manager protects his interests with good contracts. Players are only of value if they play.

[saintsRrising]

So you believe the trigger clause was only configured to benefit the club?

Well I was just stating that Carlisle could not have forced the club to make him a DFA.

It is this way, otherwise virtually any player could just walk as soon as your contract finished. ie All new draftees are on 2 year contracts and so all could just wall to the club of their choice after 2 years. Hence the rule.



1/ The trigger clause means that Carlisle will gain what ever the contract $$$ are.
It also means that the club if they want to trade him are in a better position to trade him as long as they get Carlisle to agree.

2/ But the club could easily have not brought him back as quick to make the trigger not achievable.
Downside to that is Carlisle can then just walk, BUT not to the club of his choice. Other downside for Carlisle is that offered $$$ by any such club taking him may not be as much as he wants.

[saintsRrising]

Serious question: What sort of influence does a player manager have on team selection?

In theory none, but the caveat would be that when chasing a player that certain undertakings may be made in order for that player to play at the club.

What those undertakings are exactly would be interesting, but I would imagine that they would be a more verbal agreement, than an actual contractual requirement.


Ryder would be an interesting case in point. If we are really looking to sign him is it just to be on our list, or would he be being given some specific undertakings that subject to form how he would be used in the first 22?


You really do not want the tail wagging the Dog and the coach should have full say. though if a player is jumping clubs then how you will be used is going to always be a robust discussion before you sign.

[CQ SAINT]

So you believe the trigger clause was only configured to benefit the club?

Well I was just stating that Carlisle could not have forced the club to make him a DFA.

It is this way, otherwise virtually any player could just walk as soon as your contract finished. ie All new draftees are on 2 year contracts and so all could just wall to the club of their choice after 2 years. Hence the rule.



1/ The trigger clause means that Carlisle will gain what ever the contract $$$ are.
It also means that the club if they want to trade him are in a better position to trade him as long as they get Carlisle to agree.

2/ But the club could easily have not brought him back as quick to make the trigger not achievable.
Downside to that is Carlisle can then just walk, BUT not to the club of his choice. Other downside for Carlisle is that offered $$$ by any such club taking him may not be as much as he wants.

When the contract was initiated, all the power was with Carlisle. He simply states that I will agree to the clause, however, if I do not trigger my extension, if you choose not to play me or if my stocks are devalued by injury, I walk away as a delisted free agent with my base rate in full. He knew what age he would be, he knee he had significant value and he knew he needed surgery.

[saintsRrising]

When the contract was initiated, all the power was with Carlisle. He simply states that I will agree to the clause, however, if I do not trigger my extension, if you choose not to play me or if my stocks are devalued by injury, I walk away as a delisted free agent with my base rate in full. He knew what age he would be, he knee he had significant value and he knew he needed surgery.

No that is not correct. As soon as the trigger clause was met Carlisle had in effect a contract offer from the club and as such cannot become a DFA by choosing to not exercise that trigger clause.

The AFL Free Agency clauses would not permit what you are stating. Any contract written has to be in terms of what the AFL Player Rules allow. Players/Player Mangers cannot just write in anything they like as a contract clause, and they certainly cannot write clauses to try and circumvent AFL Player Rules.

[CQ SAINT]

When the contract was initiated, all the power was with Carlisle. He simply states that I will agree to the clause, however, if I do not trigger my extension, if you choose not to play me or if my stocks are devalued by injury, I walk away as a delisted free agent with my base rate in full. He knew what age he would be, he knee he had significant value and he knew he needed surgery.

No that is not correct. As soon as the trigger clause was met Carlisle had in effect a contract offer from the club and as such cannot become a DFA by choosing to not excerise that trigger clause.

I was suggesting that Carlisle could easily amend the clause from the beginning, particularly if we front ended his contract and reduced his base rate significantly in the year with the trigger.

[CQ SAINT]

When the contract was initiated, all the power was with Carlisle. He simply states that I will agree to the clause, however, if I do not trigger my extension, if you choose not to play me or if my stocks are devalued by injury, I walk away as a delisted free agent with my base rate in full. He knew what age he would be, he knee he had significant value and he knew he needed surgery.

No that is not correct. As soon as the trigger clause was met Carlisle had in effect a contract offer from the club and as such cannot become a DFA by choosing to not exercise that trigger clause.

The AFL Free Agency clauses would not permit what you are stating. Any contract written has to be in terms of what the AFL Player Rules allow. Players/Player Mangers cannot just write in anything they like as a contract clause, and they certainly cannot write clauses to try and circumvent AFL Player Rules.

Triggers are a myth anyway. The contract cannot be extended, it can only be unilaterally shortened. Both parties just need to agree to the terms.

[Leo.J]

Jake is the only player on our list to kick a bag of 8 goals. Maybe he’s agreed to be more flexible and play up forward more often. Which is why he’s now a ‘required player’.

Having 201cm swing man in your bag of tricks as a coach is pretty handy. If I was Ratts I’d be wanting to keep him.