Precipitous Decline of North Melbourne

[shanegrambeau]

....is that the “write” word? Or am I talking about rainfall, or both?

But seriously, they have been in a tailspin.

What happened? Any lessons for the rest of us?

[desertsaint]

maybe they were crap all along, just met two teams who weren't ready to play a full game of footy?
he surprised me last season but i always thought appointing shaw was a shocker.

[Cordz2]

I don’t rate any of the Shaw family as coaches. Too much thinking involved.

[saynta]

I don’t rate any of the Shaw family as coaches. Too much thinking involved.

Thinking and Shaw are two words that don't go together.

[SaintPav]

How did we ever lose to this mob of dead s***s is beyond me?

[shanegrambeau]

I don’t rate any of the Shaw family as coaches. Too much thinking involved.

Thinking and Shaw are two words that don't go together.

Yeah, they seem to have an 'intensity' about them...comes out in different ways, but I thought that this one seemed relatively relaxed (in so far as any AFL coach can appear 'calm')

Cornes hammered them for skills lacking - maybe that lucky win overt the mighty Saints got them feeling happy with themdelves and they celebrated too much over the lay-off?

Injuries and dodgy selection?

[skeptic]

When we played North, our team balance was quite poor. We were down a mid because we went extra tall with Ryder, then dropped another mid for a third small forward,

Then we got over run as we couldn’t get our hands on the pill and not surprisingly... Lonie, Kent and Butler weren’t able to make the difference.

Hoped we had learnt from the mistake but after a mediocre contribution from the 3 last week, our response has been to reduce our run further.

Personally am quite worried about tomorrow if not for the fact that Adelaide are terrible and have lost Sloane.

Regardless, there are some painful lessons ahead for us yet

[shanegrambeau]

... Lonie, Kent and Butler weren’t able to make the difference.

..... a mediocre contribution from the 3 last week....

Damn.
All the way with LBK!

I hope not.

North has had a slightly better honeymoon with Shaw than we have had with Ratts. ..until this. Tuesday morning's news anyone?

[remboy]

I think North’s current situation is linked to their trading a few years ago. They were in the finals and went after mature players, including Dal Santo. It might have got them an extra finals appearance or two but meant that when they fell they were going to fall hard.

[Yorkeys]

Cunnington not playing, Brown not kicking goals, Zeibel suffering the effects of all those hard hits and that great but dirty defender Thompson has retired. That's North's core stuffed.

[ace]

....is that the “write” word? Or am I talking about rainfall, or both?

But seriously, they have been in a tailspin.

What happened? Any lessons for the rest of us?

They may be crap
Making our loss to them even crappier.

[Life Long Saint]

How did we ever lose to this mob of dead s***s is beyond me?

Same way we lost to Freo.

[skeptic]

I think North’s current situation is linked to their trading a few years ago. They were in the finals and went after mature players, including Dal Santo. It might have got them an extra finals appearance or two but meant that when they fell they were going to fall hard.

Disagree.

The challenge is development versus immediate performance with the key issue being honestly assessing what is in front of you.

You take a guy like Dal... he really wasn’t the player that he once was and certainly not what they needed and there was little to be gained from persevering with him.

The poison chalice in football IMO is accepting performance/standard that is not up to where it is supposed to be and finding ways to rationalise it. Stats have sunk many a promising footy mind because they allow coaches to find a way to justify mediocrity that suits a narrative that they want to be true.

There are many players on our list that really haven’t even remotely got close to becoming the players that we hoped they would be. Some on the list that have been there for 7+ years. The correct thing to do players that occupy a spot, role, and salary cap space that aren’t meeting performance standards that they’re meant to is not continue pumping development into them after it becomes evident that they won’t get there.
Certainly under the Richo, we lacked the tenacity or perhaps insight to face the bleedingly obvious.

Jury is still out on Ratten as there is both promise and concerns early

[samuraisaint]

We lost to North because we stopped when we got nearly six goals ahead, and only just got going ahead when North started to tire late in the last quarter. Which is exactly what happened against Fremantle.

North Melbourne and Fremantle have far better midfields than we do, even now, and we played extremely well to build such a lead in both of those matches. But when we started to lose momentum, both of those sides were able to score against us ridiculously easy, and our on field leaders went missing.

This pattern began back in 2013 but because we had better players in the midfield back then we were usually able to get over the line in a lot of those matches. Players like Montagna and Goddard hated losing and would lead by example and by communicating on the field.
We need to start playing four quarters. The team should all be match fit now.

Adelaide don't have a better midfield than us, but we will have the crowd to contend with over there, and our backline will well and truly be up against it with Walker who has been rushed back in, as Fyfe was last week, because they know we will fold a deck of cards if physical pressure is applied. If our midfield and ruck rover in Marshall play four quarters we have enough talent to win. Like Fyfe, I don't expect that Walker will probably play the week after our game or not very well if he does, so this match is do or die for the Crows and they know it.

If we can't beat the Crows tomorrow it will be many years before we ever beat them again.

[To the top]

To me, as the season sits we have lost 2 games you would expect to win, both under the same circumstances and, again to me, down to our lack of hands on the ball first mids hence the ball being at the wrong end of the ground for just too much of the time

We have won one game I would have expected us to win (despite being beaten on the Chess Board thru the second half and missing Hannebery who is important to us because he is a mid who gets his hands on the ball first) and won another 2 I did not expect us to win

I expect us to beat Adelaide - but have trepidations because of that expectation

NM have a hard nosed midfield when all on board - and they are the sides that have got us over years now

My thoughts were that they got ahead of themselves with their recruiting of experienced players and their quest for big name players because their List is ordinary - which said what it says about us including in Round 1

We should have beaten them easily and we did
not because despite having the better side they exploited our significant weakness

Midfielders who get their hands on the contested balls and generate goals by their usage including because the ball is down our end

We have the rucks, we have the defence, we have the wings, we have the key forwards including Marshall

We have a selection of small forwards where I include Gresham so some class with Gresham
and Butler (if he continues to perform)

We have hopes in Byrnes and Bytel, not yet seen

And we have defensive options in Roberton and Austin, so depth

We have Hannebery

But we need a completion best midfielder to add the class - the likes of Martin, Fyffe et al do not fall trees but it is one of them we are missing

Hence inferior sides like NM, on the wane continue to get us as they do

[SaintPav]

We need a Bont or a Cripps or a Martin and Ben King.

[Trev from the Bush]

North goes over a cliff so the Saints are in trouble.


Ah, yeh, that sounds logical. In a Saintsational sort of way!

[skeptic]

Our core best midfield is Steele, Jones, Billings Hanners, Hill, Ross and Gresh - back ups = Dunstan, SInclair, Philips Byrnes, Bytel + Hind

An honest evaluation of the group...
Steele, Jones and Billings are good enough and playing well... Hill is supposed to be the best but out of form... Hanners is a shadow of himself, better then most of the fringe but seems incapable of staying on the park, Ross has limitations and Gresh is better suited to rotating through the midfield.

None of the back ups are proven

That core is not good enough and needs a tremendous amount of supports from the flanks to compete... Coffield, Clarke, Long with Savage and Roberton the back ups there

Again it’s not enough. You cannot have that degree of depth and carry three players in Butler, Kent and Lonie for 15 touches.

It’s a terrible approach

It should be Gresh and Butler in the forward pockets / flank and bring in two more mids to rotate through

[shanegrambeau]

...It should be Gresh and Butler in the forward pockets / flank and bring in two more mids to rotate through

Right...yet what is the reason Ratts and co. Don’t arrange that?

What do they expect Kent, Lonie etc. to produce? Something they have never seen?

I can only summize that there are some discipline issues and Kent and Lonie are showing exemplary leadership (I mean off field) in this difficult situation.

[Devilhead]

Cunnington not playing, Brown not kicking goals, Zeibel suffering the effects of all those hard hits and that great but dirty defender Thompson has retired. That's North's core stuffed.

This - not that I care

[skeptic]

...It should be Gresh and Butler in the forward pockets / flank and bring in two more mids to rotate through

Right...yet what is the reason Ratts and co. Don’t arrange that?

What do they expect Kent, Lonie etc. to produce? Something they have never seen?

I can only summize that there are some discipline issues and Kent and Lonie are showing exemplary leadership (I mean off field) in this difficult situation.

My feeling/concern is that Ratts overvalues the FP role. Richmond have created a perception of excitement about it despite the fact that that team was full of numerous elite players that lifted the standard

All of Butler, Lonie and Kent and have an ability to kick 2-3 goals from 10 touches or so. I believe that Ratten thinks that that group could kick 7-9 goals a match, maybe even pull a few out against the run of play.
The problem is that less possessions and less opportunity means that you have to consistently get everything right with every possession.

It’s a low percentage play and will fail far more often then it won’t... as proven rather consistently over time.

A guy like Stephen Milne struggled to overcome the tag of going missing on the big stage throughout his career and he was 10 times the player that these guys are (no disrespect intended).
One simply needs more strings to the bow that making the most of very limited possessions

[Devilhead]

We need a Bont or a Cripps or a Martin and Ben King.

Agree we need a gun bull goalkicking mid and at the moment our hopes fall on Clark, Byrnes or Bytel cause for sure we will not be able to trade for one in the immediate future

We will also need someone to replace for Carlisle soon enough.

Re: Ben King - if you were him would you want to leave this vastly improving Gold Coast team?

Rowell, Anderson, Rankine, Lukosius, Weller, Bowes, Ballard, Ainsworth, Sexton - that's a pretty good young core

We would also have give up 2 first rounders or a 1st rounder and one of our young guns

[Sanctorum]

There are many players on our list that really haven’t even remotely got close to becoming the players that we hoped they would be. Some on the list that have been there for 7+ years. The correct thing to do players that occupy a spot, role, and salary cap space that aren’t meeting performance standards that they’re meant to is not continue pumping development into them after it becomes evident that they won’t get there.
Certainly under the Richo, we lacked the tenacity or perhaps insight to face the bleedingly obvious.

Jury is still out on Ratten as there is both promise and concerns early

That's so true skeptic and I'm interested to know who you include in this list?

With the current people in the club's football department under Simon Lethlean's leadership, especially David Rath, I expect that there will be quite a clean-out of the dead wood at the end of the year, to make room for players they are currently targeting from other teams, as Phase 2 of what they started last year.

I am in no doubt that Lethlean has drawn up a Master Plan, with the backing of the Board, to win the club's 2nd flag, and am excited by the prospect of what lies ahead!

[skeptic]

There are many players on our list that really haven’t even remotely got close to becoming the players that we hoped they would be. Some on the list that have been there for 7+ years. The correct thing to do players that occupy a spot, role, and salary cap space that aren’t meeting performance standards that they’re meant to is not continue pumping development into them after it becomes evident that they won’t get there.
Certainly under the Richo, we lacked the tenacity or perhaps insight to face the bleedingly obvious.

Jury is still out on Ratten as there is both promise and concerns early

That's so true skeptic and I'm interested to know who you include in this list?

With the current people in the club's football department under Simon Lethlean's leadership, especially David Rath, I expect that there will be quite a clean-out of the dead wood at the end of the year, to make room for players they are currently targeting from other teams, as Phase 2 of what they started last year.

I am in no doubt that Lethlean has drawn up a Master Plan, with the backing of the Board, to win the club's 2nd flag, and am excited by the prospect of what lies ahead!

We’ve cleaned out a few of them over the last 2 years but...
Dunstan
Webster
Savage
McKenzie
Sinclair
Kent
Lonie
Hannebery

None of them have consistently played near their best

And after a few years, I’d have at least hoped these guys were getting on the park

Austin
Clavarino

[SAINT-LEE]

When we played North, our team balance was quite poor. We were down a mid because we went extra tall with Ryder, then dropped another mid for a third small forward,

Then we got over run as we couldn’t get our hands on the pill and not surprisingly... Lonie, Kent and Butler weren’t able to make the difference.

Hoped we had learnt from the mistake but after a mediocre contribution from the 3 last week, our response has been to reduce our run further.

Personally am quite worried about tomorrow if not for the fact that Adelaide are terrible and have lost Sloane.

Regardless, there are some painful lessons ahead for us yet

I blame the Kangaroos loss more squarely on:

How about not surprisingly Hill (12 disposals) , Jones (3 behinds) Gresham (1 behind, 12 disposals - only 3 effective) weren't able to make a difference...Roberton was as rusty and stiff as they come, literally. Marshall looked absolutely lost.

The whole team besides Howard, Dunstan, Billings and Steele were sad. 4 players could hold their heads up.

Ratts failed as well as you pointed out with 2 big men.