Youth & managing your list

[bangaulegend]

Watching the Essendon Sydney game tonight I couldn't help but think of how many young talented players on both teams. A lot I haven' t even heard of before . Have we become so obsessed with short term gain that we are in reality shooting our selves in foot by trying to recycle handy but average players instead. Apart from King at 4 & Clark & Coffield at 7 & 8 in the most recent of drafts I can't think of anyone else . Maybe it's just me what are your thoughts saintsationalist

[whiskers3614]

Sent the most recent high picksto Freo with Acres but check out the treasure we got in return!

[Joffa Burns]

Young talent?

Frawley, ‘Slips through his hands’ McKernan & Wood this year.

One of them is under 33 so good to go!

[Wayne42]

It must now be official, Gags is not the messiah.

[whiskers3614]

Young talent?

Frawley, ‘Slips through his hands’ McKernan & Wood this year.

One of them is under 33 so good to go!

this years trading takes the pressure off North Melbourne of a few years ago.
It's alright for fans to over-rate the list but when the admin thinks we're so close we need to load up on depth whilst ignoring structural weaknesses you get results like the last couple of weeks.
Never mind, at least we're at the forefront of all the "woke" causes and have a women's team!

[vacuous space]

We've still got a couple of mid-season draft picks, don't we? If this season turns into 2018 revisited, those could end up being pretty handy.

[Vortex]

Yeah I have to admit our future is finely balanced right atm. If we can turn this around then there is nothing to see, but if we end up in the bottim of the ladder this year then clearly we have got it horrible wrong. This week is massive in the context of this current build. We don't necessarily have to win but if we don't out tackle the WCE and show real desperation and determination at EVERY contest then I'll be starting to think the list is full of selfish salary workers biding their time until retirement.

Time to get some bruises me thinks.

[spert]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

[CURLY]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

[Yorkeys]

The emergence of academy players for Sydney is the feature of the season so far. It seems the "academy" arrangement gives them a significant advantage. I imagine lobbying to stop that has already started. For us McCartin, Phillips, Langlands, and others with early wraps were cut rather than developing into regular players, that represents significant dents in the player pipeline. Byrnes was looking likely then got badly injured. Paton had come into his own and King is doing ok. Clavarino, who knows what the club is thinking about giving him a run in the firsts. Bytel is in and out so there seems to be a program to gradually move him into the team on a regular basis. However overall it does show we seem to have a poor conversion rate of raw draftees into regular A grade footballers compared to others. As for the mature recruits, so many vital links get injured and stay that way ( or lose the form we thought we were buying). Bad luck v bad management? A couple of older recruits seemed clearly problematic from the start but we still invested and have to take our medicine accordingly. Anyway, while we tread water introducing young new players recruited directly i.e. not from other clubs those other clubs go past us before you know it. I'm sure the recruiting dept have noted it (?) The way 2021 is looking youth and list management might actually become the focus very soon and that may not be a bad thing in the medium term.

[spert]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Not matter of just losing..it's how you lose. It would be sad to miss the finals by one or two wins eh.

[CURLY]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Not matter of just losing..it's how you lose. It would be sad to miss the finals by one or two wins eh.

Yes of course it would. But Higgins has played just three games and Crouch one. How can you make a call that early.

[skeptic]

Lists are always building and always need talented youth and topping up.

It’s just a balancing act

Ryder was a good acquisition and I understand why we needed McKernan and Hunter.

With Alabakis not really coming on and both McKernan and Ryder coming off the list in 12-24 months... it’s clear that we need a new ready made ruck to come in and play alongside Marshall and a new developing ruck.

Marshall, new ruck (currently Ryder), Hunter as short term depth and a promising developing ruck is about right.

Hannebery and Geary will come off the list and need fit replacements that can develop and play...

And whatever is going on with Carlisle needs to end. Frawley pbly doesn’t get another contract... we have Battle that can play down back and Highmore who is promising.

Also need to make a call on these guys that have been on the list for a while but not playing...
I like the look of Clav but he’s not playing after 3 years and can’t get a game in a team that needs another tall defender

Likewise Joyce... along with whoever extended his contract, needs to be wrapt up

Finally at least one of Dmac and Webster needs go too IMO.

Way overstocked for small forward types too... I’d say one of Lonie or Kent is surplus to requirements

Both have been on the list for ages and are not cemented. Personally I’d keep Dmac but I understand that a lot of people rate Webster though I don’t really get it

So the clean out potentials
Out - retired: Geary, Hannebery, Frawley, Ryder (though I’d happily keep him if he wants to go again)

Boils down to about 7-8 players out which is a touch high so perhaps some survive but it’s also dependent on what we can bring in too.
Brings the age of the list down considerably and cuts what we’re not really using as it were

[Impatient Sainter]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Not matter of just losing..it's how you lose. It would be sad to miss the finals by one or two wins eh.

Yes of course it would. But Higgins has played just three games and Crouch one. How can you make a call that early.

A lack of depth forced our hand with the recuitment of McKernan, Hunter & Wood. Then injuries/illness started to key players in Ryder, Marshall, Paton & Geary. Hannebrey is not included because he is so unreliable its a bonus when he plays. Now we have lost Gresham for another year.

Basically with the exceptions of Steele, Membrey & Howard we have an entire team out of form?

[CURLY]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Not matter of just losing..it's how you lose. It would be sad to miss the finals by one or two wins eh.

Yes of course it would. But Higgins has played just three games and Crouch one. How can you make a call that early.

A lack of depth forced our hand with the recuitment of McKernan, Hunter & Wood. Then injuries/illness started to key players in Ryder, Marshall, Paton & Geary. Hannebrey is not included because he is so unreliable its a bonus when he plays. Now we have lost Gresham for another year.

Basically with the exceptions of Steele, Membrey & Howard we have an entire team out of form?

Who has three AFL standard ruckman on their list? Hunter was only drafted in due to Marshall and Ryder being unavailable. McKernan was and is back up that has unfortunately been made to play.

[Vortex]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Yes curly I completely agree, let's not jump at shadows for sure but the manner in which we lost last week gives rise to questions about commitment to the cause. We broke a 20 year record for the least amount of tackles in a half of footy and the other half of footy wasn't much better. They need to win the tackle count this week and forget about the score board. If the intent isnt to win every contest and prove last week was an aberration then you could almost say that will be the tone for the rest of the season.

[CURLY]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Yes curly I completely agree, let's not jump at shadows for sure but the manner in which we lost last week gives rise to questions about commitment to the cause. We broke a 20 year record for the least amount of tackles in a half of footy and the other half of footy wasn't much better. They need to win the tackle count this week and forget about the score board. If the intent isnt to win every contest and prove last week was an aberration then you could almost say that will be the tone for the rest of the season.

Yes correct but that is mind set rather than ability.

[Vortex]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Yes curly I completely agree, let's not jump at shadows for sure but the manner in which we lost last week gives rise to questions about commitment to the cause. We broke a 20 year record for the least amount of tackles in a half of footy and the other half of footy wasn't much better. They need to win the tackle count this week and forget about the score board. If the intent isnt to win every contest and prove last week was an aberration then you could almost say that will be the tone for the rest of the season.

Yes correct but that is mind set rather than ability.

Yep and so we know how this will pan out if there is another weak and pathetic showing tomorrow.

There won't be enough microwaves in Australia to quell the simultaneous spitting of blood by the members.

It's a massive game for the club. I'm excited as ever in anticipation.

Bring it.

[Fugazi1966]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Yes curly I completely agree, let's not jump at shadows for sure but the manner in which we lost last week gives rise to questions about commitment to the cause. We broke a 20 year record for the least amount of tackles in a half of footy and the other half of footy wasn't much better. They need to win the tackle count this week and forget about the score board. If the intent isnt to win every contest and prove last week was an aberration then you could almost say that will be the tone for the rest of the season.

Yes correct but that is mind set rather than ability.

Yep and so we know how this will pan out if there is another weak and pathetic showing tomorrow.

There won't be enough microwaves in Australia to quell the simultaneous spitting of blood by the members.

It's a massive game for the club. I'm excited as ever in anticipation.

Bring it.

I vary between excited and dread.
I'm struggling to remember a single game that has reversed the enthusiasm like that game last week.
Maybe the Hawthorn record comeback at half time?
Is it a blip or a trend?
This week's game is huge for the club.

[Vortex]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Yes curly I completely agree, let's not jump at shadows for sure but the manner in which we lost last week gives rise to questions about commitment to the cause. We broke a 20 year record for the least amount of tackles in a half of footy and the other half of footy wasn't much better. They need to win the tackle count this week and forget about the score board. If the intent isnt to win every contest and prove last week was an aberration then you could almost say that will be the tone for the rest of the season.

Yes correct but that is mind set rather than ability.

Yep and so we know how this will pan out if there is another weak and pathetic showing tomorrow.

There won't be enough microwaves in Australia to quell the simultaneous spitting of blood by the members.

It's a massive game for the club. I'm excited as ever in anticipation.

Bring it.

I vary between excited and dread.
I'm struggling to remember a single game that has reversed the enthusiasm like that game last week.
Maybe the Hawthorn record comeback at half time?
Is it a blip or a trend?
This week's game is huge for the club.

To describe it as "season defining" is way understating the situation we find ourselves in.

I'd almost go as far as saying it is "decade defining"

[Saintmatt]

I was thinking the same- we have a bunch players from other clubs, who have contributed nothing this season, but not an exciting younger brigade like some other clubs. Some of our mature recruiting strategy worked ok last season, but we have been found out this season.

It's three games in FFS.

Yes curly I completely agree, let's not jump at shadows for sure but the manner in which we lost last week gives rise to questions about commitment to the cause. We broke a 20 year record for the least amount of tackles in a half of footy and the other half of footy wasn't much better. They need to win the tackle count this week and forget about the score board. If the intent isnt to win every contest and prove last week was an aberration then you could almost say that will be the tone for the rest of the season.

Yes correct but that is mind set rather than ability.

Yep and so we know how this will pan out if there is another weak and pathetic showing tomorrow.

There won't be enough microwaves in Australia to quell the simultaneous spitting of blood by the members.

It's a massive game for the club. I'm excited as ever in anticipation.

Bring it.

I vary between excited and dread.
I'm struggling to remember a single game that has reversed the enthusiasm like that game last week.
Maybe the Hawthorn record comeback at half time?
Is it a blip or a trend?
This week's game is huge for the club.

To describe it as "season defining" is way understating the situation we find ourselves in.

I'd almost go as far as saying it is "decade defining"

Some really excellent points in this little thread - thanks to the posters for not being bizarrely irrational and overly emotional in expressing their points of view. Wish more threads on here ran like this.

I think I now feel very much like all of the positions expressed here. Bit of excitement (surely our players have enough pride to just want to begin by making a statement and then hunting all day?!?!?) but also, pure dread (that 'effort' last week was abominable and potentially a career killer for all involved).

Sheesh - there's a bit riding on tomorrow now. Feel a bit sorry for RoMa having to shoulder the burden against NicNat after no play for a month. And with a flawed foot. There's dome players in our team who'd want to show a demonstrable improvement in their effort and output

[shanegrambeau]

My impression is that we tried youth from mid-Watters to late Richo and only yielded a brigade of middling 'B' graders.
Meanwhile, Geelong and Hawthorn succeeded by prioritizing experience over potential and imported seasoned veterans and mid-career players.

I think we started to lean into that way of thinking.

[desertsaint]

We're screwed. If i was a rat i'd jump off now.
Damn it. Here we go again. Down with the ship.

[Sanctorum]

It's always a very fine art to strike the right balance between experience and youth and some clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn have a very good track record in this regard, St Kilda not so.

I get really worked up when I see Ben McEvoy, Rhys Stanley and now Tom Hickey playing key roles as successful ruckmen for other clubs after being traded out for dubious returns.

You can't really blame the club for trying to bring in experienced talent from other clubs to augment the list, it's just that some of them have failed to live up to expectations.

We also need to remember that with St Kilda's track record since 2011 there are not many gun players from elsewhere that would want to play for the Saints, as they all aspire to become a premiership player.

Right now I believe the club has struck a reasonable balance, after their season last year and the 2021 pre-season I remember sitting down with my Saints mates in Brisbane and lauding the great depth of our list - those celebrations were soon dampened by the loss of Paddy Ryder and Rowan Marshall for the early rounds, and now of course the utter humiliations inflicted on the team by Melbourne and Essendon, both games that many including ourselves had ticked as wins.

The Eagles match tomorrow should draw a line in the sand for the players as I expect them to make it a real contest, fought out to the end. Let's hope it's a thrilling shoot-out!

[Gershwin]

What’s done is done, but I hope we use our number one pick in the draft on a young player and don’t trade it. It is expected to be a strong draft.