Team v Port

[minneapolis]

Told you Bytel was going to get omitted

You were correct. Why did you think he was going to get dropped?

[Scollop]

How does Long stay in?
He's been awful.

??? No he's on track as a good young player. He hasn't been awful

What game did you watch last week? He was the sub in the game vs Richmond. He came in AFTER jimmy got injured

Check out his disposal efficiency versus his team mates

He played half a game and got more effective possessions than a third of our players (most of them played the whole game)

[cwrcyn]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

[Gershwin]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

He had 10 disposals (4 kicks, 6 handballs).
Hill had 10 disposals (7 kicks, 3 handballs).

Why does Bytel get dropped?

[Vortex]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

He had 10 disposals (4 kicks, 6 handballs).
Hill had 10 disposals (7 kicks, 3 handballs).

Why does Bytel get dropped?

There would be players asking the same question possibly. He's clearly the Rock Star in the team getting special treatment. I get he has more credit in the bank and it's a really hard decision for selectors but how much more credit does he have is the question. I didn't like that he chose to go to Perth this week and I reckon there would be players feeling resentful about that also esepcially considering it would have been challenging at training this week.

#selectionintegrity

[Joffa Burns]

How does Long stay in?
He's been awful.

??? No he's on track as a good young player. He hasn't been awful

What game did you watch last week? He was the sub in the game vs Richmond. He came in AFTER jimmy got injured

Check out his disposal efficiency versus his team mates

He played half a game and got more effective possessions than a third of our players (most of them played the whole game)

And he puts his body on the line.

[shanegrambeau]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

He had 10 disposals (4 kicks, 6 handballs).
Hill had 10 disposals (7 kicks, 3 handballs).

Why does Bytel get dropped?

There would be players asking the same question possibly. He's clearly the Rock Star in the team getting special treatment. I get he has more credit in the bank and it's a really hard decision for selectors but how much more credit does he have is the question. I didn't like that he chose to go to Perth this week and I reckon there would be players feeling resentful about that also esepcially considering it would have been challenging at training this week.

#selectionintegrity

I often wonder about these things and try to check myself. Surely most players, at a pretty early stage, learn not to harbour resentment.

Why do players like Kent and McKenzie get a contract while other players have to walk on egg shells week-to-week or face extinction?
Why does a player like Douglas Howard get to tell the Saints that he’ll only come over if he plays as a backman?
Why do players like Hannebery have the great paycheck, never play and get commended for their leadership?

I suppose it is part of the gig they try to accept.

I say to myself that all players are remarkably successful in their own right, just for making it that far, and although they may also have their demons, also have a degree of self-belief and acceptance of the general situation..the context of the the remarkable ironies, good and bad fortunes (look at injury for instance- can see your whole carrier go down the tubes width a twist of an ankle) the passions of the fans, the cheap opportunism of the media, and the crooked pay ledger courtesy of the contract system.

[Impatient Sainter]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

He had 10 disposals (4 kicks, 6 handballs).
Hill had 10 disposals (7 kicks, 3 handballs).

Why does Bytel get dropped?

Agree it sends are really poor message. Ratts has created an unproductive situation stating he wont drop Hill IMO!

[The_Dud]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

He had 10 disposals (4 kicks, 6 handballs).
Hill had 10 disposals (7 kicks, 3 handballs).

Why does Bytel get dropped?

Bytel also had 4 tackles (equal 3rd for the team) and I’ll let you guess how many Hill had...

Some blokes just seem to get dropped constantly (Long, Bytel, Dunstan, Acres in past years) while others (Hill, Ross, Geary, Newnes in past years) get auto picked every week no matter how badly they’re playing.

[skeptic]

Why did Bytel get dropped?

Four possessions in a full game playing as a midfielder. Pretty simple.

He had 10 disposals (4 kicks, 6 handballs).
Hill had 10 disposals (7 kicks, 3 handballs).

Why does Bytel get dropped?

There would be players asking the same question possibly. He's clearly the Rock Star in the team getting special treatment. I get he has more credit in the bank and it's a really hard decision for selectors but how much more credit does he have is the question. I didn't like that he chose to go to Perth this week and I reckon there would be players feeling resentful about that also esepcially considering it would have been challenging at training this week.

#selectionintegrity

I often wonder about these things and try to check myself. Surely most players, at a pretty early stage, learn not to harbour resentment.

Why do players like Kent and McKenzie get a contract while other players have to walk on egg shells week-to-week or face extinction?
Why does a player like Douglas Howard get to tell the Saints that he’ll only come over if he plays as a backman?
Why do players like Hannebery have the great paycheck, never play and get commended for their leadership?

I suppose it is part of the gig they try to accept.

I say to myself that all players are remarkably successful in their own right, just for making it that far, and although they may also have their demons, also have a degree of self-belief and acceptance of the general situation..the context of the the remarkable ironies, good and bad fortunes (look at injury for instance- can see your whole carrier go down the tubes width a twist of an ankle) the passions of the fans, the cheap opportunism of the media, and the crooked pay ledger courtesy of the contract system.

I think it’s one of those scenarios that ultimately just sits with the coach and what they’re trying to do.

Ratten like Richo before him and everyone else before that has to decide which good players with bad traits (like a Carlisle) they want to persevere with/cut out and which promising developing players that aren’t entirely ready (like a Bytel) they want to shower with opportunity

Ultimately IMO... coaches live and die on that judgment.

For example, Kent is a player I absolutely don’t rate... very limited skill set, not overly effective, not much chance of improvement... but, last year he was was selected with consistency well past the point that made sense to me.

So looking at it from Ratten’s POV, why would that by?

My assessment of him may be overly harsh... pbly truth to that.

Ratten may see him as a player that:
- Has a higher immediate ceiling than the other options
- Could improve out of sight with more opportunity
- Works hard and is well liked hence reward sends a positive message
- His leadership onfield sees others ply better
- Other reasons

Whether I personally agree or not is of course irrelevant as is the opinion of everyone here... but as stated above, it’s Ratten’s call to persevere or not with the talent he wants/needs to and ultimately, he will live or die by those decisions.

Personally... I’m not entirely sold on his judgment though I like his personality, leadership and mannerisms

I think he’s quite erratic and inconsistent with structure

His judgment with players leans too heavily on past performance/form as an indicator of what could be opposed what form has been over an extended period

And I’m not convinced that he learns really well from his mistakes

That said... one completely has recognise that on his first crack, he exceeded all expectations and led us to our best result in 10years so he obviously knows a few things.

[Wayne42]

Maybe the club has a Paul Cronin type who has told Ratten, Hill will not be dropped.

Can't think of any other reason.

[samuraisaint]

Personally I believe that when you are playing interstate in a night game, and up against highly experienced, big bodied players like Robbie Gray, Ollie Wines, and Travis Boak, you don't drop your 27-29 year old proven performers.
Sure our team have not been consistent, but if we drop guys like Hill and Ross in a match against underachievers like Port Adelaide (who, btw, have only won one final since 2015 the same as us), you leave yourself exposed to the sort of sh1tp0t antics we saw when we played them in China in 2019. We were literally shanghaied in that match.

[SaintPav]

100 point loss coming up.

Get ready for it.

[Scollop]

100 point loss coming up.

Get ready for it.

What's your track record like when predicting 100 pt losses?
Should we load up on the Saints

[saynta]

King reckons Patton, Byrnes and Bytel were the coaches favorites, so I'm betting that Ratts is just easing Bytel into the side. Will be a regular before long.along with Byrnes.

https://www.saints.com.au/news/918353/- ... ing-injury

[SAINT-LEE]

Love Joyce as an in, hate Bytel as an out.

ps; And some keyboard experts here who shall remain unnamed to prevent embarrassment were calling for him to be delisted as season end.

They wanted Bytel or Joyce delisted?

I reckon both have upside but we have definitely not seen 1 entire solid game from either, yet.

[Zed]

100 point loss coming up.

Get ready for it.

What's your track record like when predicting 100 pt losses?
Should we load up on the Saints

God I hope not. I’m going to the game tonight.
Don’t think we can win, but hoping for some kind of minor miracle. No shame in losing to a better team if we’ve played to the best of our abilities. I’m just hoping that we see something close to our best from the available cattle and no more injuries.

[shanegrambeau]

I am happy Joyce is back in. Just wish it wasn't these kinds of circumstances. I hope he has a thick skin! And that he is not scapegoated.
No, Dougal Howard is no Max Houghton. Maxy could run out, reach over and get a fist over the shoulder of a forward leading. I think Howard is two meters behind. But footy has changed. Leads used to be 20 - 30 meters. Now they are three meter lunges and a forward just needs to spring forward and dash a few meters. (This is my blinkered view of it) I really don't know, and I really, really don't know if Joyce can stop a Dixon..or if he will have to. I am just happy that he gets a run. I am not convinced by our backline. Wasn't even convinced last year. I hope Clav is watching carefully on the telly at the Beach Oval, where all the Sandy boys kick back with tinnies and a BBQ on Sundays no doubt. lol

I hope we are competitive. I dread the worst loss..the most dull, horrible ones...like 31 points or 34 points. Not big enough to call a thrashing so that we can vent and unload. Not close enough to call it a 'fair crack'. Not super close enough to blame the umpires.

Just those losses where you are still in it with ten or fifteen to go, say 26 down, then a coupla late goals to them to rub it in.

Come on Saints, engineer a miracle. Somehow.

[SaintPav]

100 point loss coming up.

Get ready for it.

What's your track record like when predicting 100 pt losses?
Should we load up on the Saints

Your call.

My track record speaks for itself.

[MickThomas]

I am happy Joyce is back in. Just wish it wasn't these kinds of circumstances. I hope he has a thick skin! And that he is not scapegoated.
No, Dougal Howard is no Max Houghton. Maxy could run out, reach over and get a fist over the shoulder of a forward leading. I think Howard is two meters behind. But footy has changed. Leads used to be 20 - 30 meters. Now they are three meter lunges and a forward just needs to spring forward and dash a few meters. (This is my blinkered view of it) I really don't know, and I really, really don't know if Joyce can stop a Dixon..or if he will have to. I am just happy that he gets a run. I am not convinced by our backline. Wasn't even convinced last year. I hope Clav is watching carefully on the telly at the Beach Oval, where all the Sandy boys kick back with tinnies and a BBQ on Sundays no doubt. lol

I hope we are competitive. I dread the worst loss..the most dull, horrible ones...like 31 points or 34 points. Not big enough to call a thrashing so that we can vent and unload. Not close enough to call it a 'fair crack'. Not super close enough to blame the umpires.

Just those losses where you are still in it with ten or fifteen to go, say 26 down, then a coupla late goals to them to rub it in.

Come on Saints, engineer a miracle. Somehow.

Dougal Howard.
Yes, he gets led to the ball far too often- he has a curious habit of staying 15m behind his fwd and can never bridge the gap.
Then points n yells at team-mates for some reason after.
The only reason he gets 22 kicks is because he takes the kick-ins. He doesn't fool me.
Just watch today when they show replays of his opponents' goals, using the vision from behind the goals. He stands there like a bloody witches hat

[The_Dud]

Howard is a great third man up, but terrible one-on-one

[MickThomas]

Howard is a great third man up, but terrible one-on-one

Howard takes those 'team marks' cos the backmen rehearse it at training.
In the pack is Wilkie, Coff, or Long nudging the pack under the ball.
It's a learned technique