Internal Review

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Vortex
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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909505Post Vortex »

True Believer wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 9:28am
Ghost Like wrote: Thu 17 Jun 2021 9:16pm The HS now saying there's also a review of the reviewers. Stated that Bassett began looking into things at the club and is disappointed with what he's finding.

This may actually end up as a real review.
It's an interesting read, and although someone made reference to our president being "invisible", I am very OK with that if he gets things done, and his history suggests very much that he is a man that gets things done.......
I think you could mount a fairly strong argument that he's been the president long enough to already have a system of monitoring in place and long before our current free-fall. Getting things done after the fact is a massive fail. It's reactionary management and from my own experience with the club recently I am concerned the admin is not functioning well. I accept that it has been a tough 18 months since the world was impacted by the pandemic however this also is what gives me the greatest concern with regards to our club being capable of weathering the storm. The financial impact of COVID is probably only reaching our shores now and what that means in terms of being capable of financing the resources we will need to be succesful over the next 5 years.

Make no mistake about it, Andrew has his own distractions, his organisation has been going through major transformation in the past year with aquistions and restructuring and "pivoting" to use a current buzz word, so his invisbility may have reason, he has been very part time possibly. It certainly is looking more like someone has taken their eyes off the road.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909513Post Sanctorum »

Given that a major factor in St Kilda's losses this year has been inaccuracy in front of goals (instead of 5-8 the team could be 8-5 and sitting in the eight and we wouldn't be in this predicament) I would expect there to be a major focus on why the coaches have failed to make this an extreme priority and pulled out all stops to have it fixed.

I've argued before that the club must employ a full time goal kicking coach, not some part-timer like Ben Dixon years ago, but someone who drills the forwards endlessly to perfect their preparation and kicking styles. Not unlike a golf coach who perfects the pros' swings and gets them to hit the ball thousands of times until it becomes instinctive and second nature.

It's not rocket science but there's not a single St Kilda player that can be relied on to kick it through the big sticks consistently, and therein lies the failure of season 2021!


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909514Post Teflon »

Ghost Like wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:53pm
Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:18pm Is there a link to the article be good to read
Inside Saints’ crisis: Who is under most pressure?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 3e2121e3ca
Tks Ghost - paywall you can’t paste it?
Cheers


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909516Post Impatient Sainter »

Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 3:44pm
Ghost Like wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:53pm
Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:18pm Is there a link to the article be good to read
Inside Saints’ crisis: Who is under most pressure?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 3e2121e3ca
Tks Ghost - paywall you can’t paste it?
Cheers
I have read in it, in short it sensationalises that St Kilda are in crisis. That both Finnis & Lethlean have been to the board in recent months sharing concerns about what is going on within the club. That Lethlean had been pushed up as the next CEO, but perhaps his position was in jeopardy. McGuire then quoted as suggesting that (Bassatt) someone had been doing his own review on the reviewers eg Lethlean.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909518Post Ghost Like »

Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 3:44pm
Ghost Like wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:53pm
Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:18pm Is there a link to the article be good to read
Inside Saints’ crisis: Who is under most pressure?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 3e2121e3ca
Tks Ghost - paywall you can’t paste it?
Cheers
Sorry mate, working from my phone. I haven't graduated to cutting & pasting whole articles yet, only links.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909521Post repta »

Sanctorum wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 3:18pm Given that a major factor in St Kilda's losses this year has been inaccuracy in front of goals (instead of 5-8 the team could be 8-5 and sitting in the eight and we wouldn't be in this predicament) I would expect there to be a major focus on why the coaches have failed to make this an extreme priority and pulled out all stops to have it fixed.

I've argued before that the club must employ a full time goal kicking coach, not some part-timer like Ben Dixon years ago, but someone who drills the forwards endlessly to perfect their preparation and kicking styles. Not unlike a golf coach who perfects the pros' swings and gets them to hit the ball thousands of times until it becomes instinctive and second nature.

It's not rocket science but there's not a single St Kilda player that can be relied on to kick it through the big sticks consistently, and therein lies the failure of season 2021!

We should start to use some 'rocket science'
Golf Pros actually dont get better with endless hours of swinging or hitting golf balls. They use highly sophisticated software that is readily available and could be adapted. When a golfer practices every shot is analysed, studied and dissected.

AFL is kick and giggle .... hehehe .... reverse banana whilst wearing a tu-tu .... teehehee ...

ends up with Players earning a million a year that have absolute zero idea of how to kick at goal.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909573Post Teflon »

Impatient Sainter wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 4:08pm
Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 3:44pm
Ghost Like wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:53pm
Teflon wrote: Fri 18 Jun 2021 12:18pm Is there a link to the article be good to read
Inside Saints’ crisis: Who is under most pressure?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 3e2121e3ca
Tks Ghost - paywall you can’t paste it?
Cheers
I have read in it, in short it sensationalises that St Kilda are in crisis. That both Finnis & Lethlean have been to the board in recent months sharing concerns about what is going on within the club. That Lethlean had been pushed up as the next CEO, but perhaps his position was in jeopardy. McGuire then quoted as suggesting that (Bassatt) someone had been doing his own review on the reviewers eg Lethlean.
Cheers
Geez interesting if true Bassett been doing his own behind scenes reviewing ... gotta think something really off down there ...


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909577Post WellardSaint »

...
Last edited by WellardSaint on Sat 19 Jun 2021 3:37pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909578Post WellardSaint »

Bassatt and his bro created Seek and built it into a market-leading reliable and well-known job search website.

But, he admitted recently, that he got complacent, and other sites moved into areas that he hadn't thought to exploit. And they made an impact and began owning stuff.
Operators like Linkedin, for example.
Bassatt said that he was forced to play catch-up because if you don't make progress, you fall behind.

His current thinking about another review is for one of 2 reasons.
1. He was distracted by the things going on at Seek, and was expecting things with the club to get better- trusting the ppl.
2. He was watching closely, and believed that the injuries were the main issue (and lack of depth too)

Either way, he discovered with Seek that if you relax, you lose market share and power, and you are forced to play catch-up.
So this review is for him to get a handle on exactly why things went pear-shaped, and then put steps in place to vigorously claw back some form and results.

It's problematic because there's expensive contracts such as Hannas that we can't afford to pay out.
If he turns over assistant coaches (tony74 says 2 are getting bumped before the Tigers game) then that's the soft cap blown.
Who replaces them?
Last edited by WellardSaint on Sat 19 Jun 2021 3:35pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909579Post WellardSaint »

I wonder if Bassatt decides that Lethers is the main culprit behind the Hannas n Hill debacles.
He can't very well cut Lethers, the soft cap means we can't pay him out and get another guy in


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909580Post shanegrambeau »

I think the question now is, how do you choose people who are not part of the wider ‘new and woken footy community’ as opposed to rational people who can make clear, rational, and if necessary, brutal decisions about a footy club?

The new and woken “footy community’ is now a cadre of senior players and ex-players, tne AFLPA, the AFL and it’s media cronies, (with which they have an blood relationship). The Footy clubs, and especially the St Kilda, Footscrays, Nth Melbournes, are really powerless. We are now in the ebb and flow of cultural shifts and used as bunnies by the AFL, on account of our remedial basket case status. And our lack of money. We don’t give much to ‘the church’.

The review process is bullocks, but so might be the inertia and crap that keeps the club going. I tend to lean on the side of the club trying it’s best.I don’t think we need, ‘a review’, but I am not a member, just a troll supporter. But I do love St Kilda…unfortunately it’s true.


You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909588Post Yorkeys »

Lets assume the footy operations department employees/consultants have KPIs/non negotiable performance standards. Lets assume that performance management is something the Club administration has embraced. Then its seems if the "review" is fair dinkum and goes back to tors then several personnel will have to be moved on. Sackings often get people's attention.

If soft cap considerations inhibit sanctioning footy dept. staff then it is poorly designed & becomes a double whammy in paying for poor decisions/judgements and I'm sure the genius duo of Gil and Steve would not enable that.

Having a plan based on no injuries, injury prone players not being unavailable and seamless transfer of 2020 form to 2021 is too amateurish to contemplate.

The hush (and internal bickering?) that has fallen over this bye period could be a lot of us thinking these guys don't really have the clues, the energy or wherewithal to turn performances around and that is going to be the status quo for the foreseeable.

Perhaps put the players in charge, they seem to be the ones that are deciding when and if to put in and are playing the coaches, admin and board on a break.

Desperately hoping for a dramatic circuit breaker to be announced in next week, this is death by a thousand cuts Richo territory again. Please President Bassett, throw us a bone.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909592Post B.M »

Why are we looking for a smoking gun?

Are we desperate for someone to blame? Get rid of them and it’ll all be fixed?!

I think there are 3 main reasons we sit where we currently do

1/ Injuries/players going home

2/ Goal accuracy - past six weeks deplorable

3/ Game plan is too easy to counter

Look, I don’t think we are a top 4 team at our best. We are probably are a 6-10 team all things going well… and they are not

Like many on here, I don’t think we need to panic and throw the baby out with the bath water! I don’t think we need a wholesale of our good players and rebuild AGAIN! I think we need to reset… add 1 or 2 ingredients and get a couple more kids in.

Melbourne and the dogs haven’t panicked over recent years! They just reloaded.
Imagine in 2019 if Melbourne traded an under performing HF/Mid Petracca?
That’s the sort of s*** we do!!!
I


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909643Post WellardSaint »

Yorkeys said it would be amateurish if the club didn't recognize that key players may be unavailable, and that our form would seamlessly carry on this year.

Well, I think they are guilty of ignoring the possibility of injury.
Did Hannas win a time trial in the preseason?
They probably decided all his woes were behind him.
And they imagined we would just carry on our good form.
Because they didn't think Hind would be useful, let him go.
And when we lost Paton via a strange full on tackle by Roughy, that was a huge blow.
So they had to get desperate and get in Frawley and others for a bandaid patch-up. That's proof that they expected us to perform this year, just like last year.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909825Post Saintmatt »

WellardSaint wrote: Thu 17 Jun 2021 3:51pm An internal review will not uncover anything ground breaking.
Lethers and Ratts would review each game anyway, so an internal review will just cover old ground anyway.
No hard truths- inconvenient truths- will be uncovered, because arrogance and conceit, as well as self-belief in themselves, will never highlight any mistakes made by themselves.
Would Lethers put up his hand during the review and admit that Hill and Hannas has not panned out, and was a mistake?

An independent review will cast a strong light on everything, as long as it is independent.

Now, onto on-field leaders.
Howard is quite vocal and a big finger-pointer.
Each time he gives his opponent 25m break, and the oppo marks it, Howard is pointing and yelling.
As a player, I would reply to him "Dougs, maybe stop the social distancing, stay on his hammer, mate"
His kick-ins are horrible and just come back with interest.

The club has said that Howard is quite outspoken in team meetings, holding guys to account.
If he were in All-Australian form, he might get more respect.
Excellent points made all the way through


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909944Post damienc »

This so called 'internal review' is a bust.

Another example of endless club spin. Make it look like you're doing something when in reality you have no intention of doing anything.

I'm sure they will talk to the players. A fat lot good that will do.

No coaches sacked. They deserve to be and should.

But the supreme metaphor for this season. This annus horribilis, is Bytel getting concussed after a footy hit him in the head because no one in our footy team can kick straight. And no coach seems to be able to show them how.

And Nick Hind who we gave away because no one was smart enough to work out where to play him is just killing it for Essendon.

That trade is right up there with selecting Paddy McCartin as number one draft pick.

Ok. Had my rant and feeling better for it.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909945Post WellardSaint »

damienc wrote: Tue 22 Jun 2021 4:23pm This so called 'internal review' is a bust.

Another example of endless club spin. Make it look like you're doing something when in reality you have no intention of doing anything.

I'm sure they will talk to the players. A fat lot good that will do.

No coaches sacked. They deserve to be and should.

But the supreme metaphor for this season. This annus horribilis, is Bytel getting concussed after a footy hit him in the head because no one in our footy team can kick straight. And no coach seems to be able to show them how.

And Nick Hind who we gave away because no one was smart enough to work out where to play him is just killing it for Essendon.

That trade is right up there with selecting Paddy McCartin as number one draft pick.

Ok. Had my rant and feeling better for it.
I wish I could 'like' this post 1000 times.

Totally over this train wreck of a club.

Still a member and will rollover my direct debits next yesr, but very disappointed with all their rubbish


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1909949Post Laurie »

An absolute circus totally over it .
SPIN SPIN AND MORE SPIN
Changes need to be made in our coaching group

Player's need to be delisted and i think we all know who
.
Why have we recruited players from other clubs knowing quite well they have history of soft tissue injuries others that have bought nothing to our club.

Our playing list has gone backwards i believe.

Next Zig and Zag will call for a Royal Commission
BOOM BOON


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910107Post tony74 »

Just to get the record straight re Bytel. He and Skunk collided at training, that caused the concussion. Re the review- Our President does not like mediocrity, there is/will be movement.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910115Post Vortex »

B.M wrote: Sat 19 Jun 2021 11:20am Why are we looking for a smoking gun?

Are we desperate for someone to blame? Get rid of them and it’ll all be fixed?!

I think there are 3 main reasons we sit where we currently do

1/ Injuries/players going home

2/ Goal accuracy - past six weeks deplorable

3/ Game plan is too easy to counter

Look, I don’t think we are a top 4 team at our best. We are probably are a 6-10 team all things going well… and they are not

Like many on here, I don’t think we need to panic and throw the baby out with the bath water! I don’t think we need a wholesale of our good players and rebuild AGAIN! I think we need to reset… add 1 or 2 ingredients and get a couple more kids in.

Melbourne and the dogs haven’t panicked over recent years! They just reloaded.
Imagine in 2019 if Melbourne traded an under performing HF/Mid Petracca?
That’s the sort of s*** we do!!!
I
A lot of that makes sense, I would add that coach's and game plans are generally only as good as the players allow.

Luck with player availability is what we need as much as anything . However list health and depth cost money and that is what worries me, where does the cash come from to fix these two things?


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910130Post Yorkeys »

Did Charley Brown ever get to kick the football?
Has the Board fallen for one of the oldest tricks in the book?
Bridge that gap; by the way, speaking of bridges, want to buy one?


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910146Post Vortex »

I think coaches and game plans are not as important as having a finals/flag capable list, having said that I am concerned the Ratts mantra has allowed our players to be comfortable enough that they know they will still get a game, so basically a question of selection integrity and accountability. Now I know it has been difficult this year due to the lack of depth on our list however I just watched this video on the AFL website which asks each coach what the non negotiables are, interestingly whilst most coaches stated effort and/or team first, Ratts said his was "respect".

For mine this messaging is ambiguous because surely respect sits closely behind attitude, effort and the team first mentatlity. The amiguitiy around respect comes with the differnt types of respect, respect for your Mum, mind your manners etc, then there is respect from your peers that is earnt from bringing the right attitude, effort and team first mentality.

I reckon the coach would have lost a bit of respect for not dropping players when he should have. The fish rots from the head. Ironically the club has little to no respect for it's efforts on the footy field this year and I hope Ratts is getting feedback on changing his non negotiables.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/634982/-be ... 4478400001


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910149Post WellardSaint »

respect and honesty are two nice words that mean nothing really, because it depends on context.

You cannot hang your hat on a simple word.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910156Post Vortex »

WellardSaint wrote: Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:11am respect and honesty are two nice words that mean nothing really, because it depends on context.

You cannot hang your hat on a simple word.
Actions around effort is hopefully getting little respect internally for those players not bringing it.

Ratts threatens in the video that players who don't bring respect will be moved on, interesting times ahead during the trade period.


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Re: Internal Review

Post: # 1910161Post WellardSaint »

Vortex wrote: Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:42am
WellardSaint wrote: Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:11am respect and honesty are two nice words that mean nothing really, because it depends on context.

You cannot hang your hat on a simple word.
Actions around effort is hopefully getting little respect internally for those players not bringing it.

Ratts threatens in the video that players who don't bring respect will be moved on, interesting times ahead during the trade period.
what about contracts?
If a guy like DMack is still contracted, he can't be cut. Kent as well.
They will just stay in VFL and become "list cloggers" i.e. taking up a spot that should go to a young draftee


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