With 10 seconds to go in the third

[CURLY]

Lead all day with 8 best 22 missing. No complaints here we’ve overtaken Collingwood going forward.

You wouldnt say that if you had of watched the VFL game today. Collingwood have far more depth on their list and a better future. They will get the best and youngest Daicos for just draft points at years end. All they need is a more attacking coach, a key forward target and they will leap frog us in 6 months.

Where are they plucking this key forward target from? Of course there VFL side looked better they’ve got one of the shortest injury lists in the AFL.

[The Fireman]

Pendlebury was singled out for his lack of defensive effort for a captain.

Steele on the other hand had 36 laid 14 tackles and was BOG by a country mile!

Who was the better leader on the day?!

If we are looking at something lacking this season, Jack Steele hasn’t been it. He will win the TB Medal by a record number of votes.

+1

[SAINT-LEE]

I like what Dal Santo said on the radio....when I hear callers say the Saints aren't fit, I wonder if I'm about to talk to the dumbest person on earth....yep, that's you.

Just moronic

It's not physical its mental. For Feck sake donyouse know anything about how the game works?

You can't be fit and then not be fit. It's not a yoyo.
We had the lowest fat folds in returning players in 3 years. We had more personal best times in the 3 km run than ever before. We have a fit team overall.

Its mental, structure, organisational and predominantly psychological.

We are improving and will lose a few more and finish exactly where I predicted January 3, 2021.

10 wins and improving.

[The_Dud]

“8 of our best 22 out”

[Scollop]

I was calmly enjoying the match for 3 quarters. Love giving it to the old enemy and to Pies fans...(after all the pain of 2010)

Anyhow...my yelling had increased considerably in the last. Blood was boiling with 5 minutes to go...

Still enjoyed listening to the tune and trumpets on the final siren

[Beno88]

2019 R22 – 10m Q2 – 24 pts up on Carlton, lose by 10. Outscored by 34 pts in 79 mins.
2019 R23 – 15m Q3 – 3 pts up on Sydney, lose by 45. Outscored by 48 pts in 44 mins.
2020 R1 – 7m Q3 – 31 pts up on North Melbourne, lose by 2. Outscored by 33 pts in 41 mins.
2020 R6 – 4m Q2 – 37 pts up on Fremantle, lose by 6. Outscored by 43 pts in 74 mins.
2020 R17 – 14m Q4 – 8 pts up on West Coast, lose by 15. Outscored by 23 pts in 13 mins.
2020 EF – 22m Q3 – 26 pts up on Western Bulldogs, win by 3. Outscored by 23 pts in 25 mins.
2021 R2 – 18m Q2 – 16 pts up on Melbourne, lose by 18. Outscored by 34 pts in 73 mins.
2021 R9 – 14m Q3 – 3 pts up on Geelong, lose by 21. Outscored by 24 pts in 42 mins.
2021 R11 – 12m Q4 – 44 pts up on North Melbourne, win by 20. Outscored by 24 pts in 18 mins.
2021 R13 – 3m Q3 – 36 pts up on Adelaide, lose by 6. Outscored by 42 pts in 63 mins.
2021 R15 – 30m Q3 – 49 pts up on Collingwood, win by 9. Outscored by 40 pts in 31 mins.

That's 11 times under Brett Ratten that we've been unable to stop opposition momentum from a winning position.

That's once every 3.5 games.

Mental weakness just seems a part of this group.

[The_Dud]

2019 R22 – 10m Q2 – 24 pts up on Carlton, lose by 10. Outscored by 34 pts in 79 mins.
2019 R23 – 15m Q3 – 3 pts up on Sydney, lose by 45. Outscored by 48 pts in 44 mins.
2020 R1 – 7m Q3 – 31 pts up on North Melbourne, lose by 2. Outscored by 33 pts in 41 mins.
2020 R6 – 4m Q2 – 37 pts up on Fremantle, lose by 6. Outscored by 43 pts in 74 mins.
2020 R17 – 14m Q4 – 8 pts up on West Coast, lose by 15. Outscored by 23 pts in 13 mins.
2020 EF – 22m Q3 – 26 pts up on Western Bulldogs, win by 3. Outscored by 23 pts in 25 mins.
2021 R2 – 18m Q2 – 16 pts up on Melbourne, lose by 18. Outscored by 34 pts in 73 mins.
2021 R9 – 14m Q3 – 3 pts up on Geelong, lose by 21. Outscored by 24 pts in 42 mins.
2021 R11 – 12m Q4 – 44 pts up on North Melbourne, win by 20. Outscored by 24 pts in 18 mins.
2021 R13 – 3m Q3 – 36 pts up on Adelaide, lose by 6. Outscored by 42 pts in 63 mins.
2021 R15 – 30m Q3 – 49 pts up on Collingwood, win by 9. Outscored by 40 pts in 31 mins.

That's 11 times under Brett Ratten that we've been unable to stop opposition momentum from a winning position.

That's once every 3.5 games.

Mental weakness just seems a part of this group.

Give them a break! It was obviously the umps/injuries/break/travel/draw that was the problem, the players/coaches have nothing to do with it!

[Crossy66]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

[SaintPav]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

[Crossy66]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

[skeptic]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

I always found this to be an interesting argument

Other people were just as bad doesn’t hold up for me

Whilst I agree with you that overall, the whole team was a problem in the last…
I have higher expectations of Billings and Ross than other players given age, talent + experience … and Dunstan was one whose performance dipped the most compared to players that were never in the game. Sadly he has a history of this albeit he was still good on the day and is in career best form

Different players carry different expectations. I’d have hopped these three stood taller when the team needed them to

[spert]

We came out in the last quarter with the same defensive mindset as in the last quarter of the final v Dogs last year. Basically went into our shell and invited the opposition back into the game

Spot on

[realdeal]

We came out in the last quarter with the same defensive mindset as in the last quarter of the final v Dogs last year. Basically went into our shell and invited the opposition back into the game

Spot on

And it's something id like to hear from Ratten on.. As to the mindset of the team, what's the team plan in those situations, why can't they prevent or slow those fadeouts, and why it keeps happening on such a regular basis..

What's

[Crossy66]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

I always found this to be an interesting argument

Other people were just as bad doesn’t hold up for me

Whilst I agree with you that overall, the whole team was a problem in the last…
I have higher expectations of Billings and Ross than other players given age, talent + experience … and Dunstan was one whose performance dipped the most compared to players that were never in the game. Sadly he has a history of this albeit he was still good on the day and is in career best form

Different players carry different expectations. I’d have hopped these three stood taller when the team needed them to

So you have a higher expectation of Dunstan than, hill, Ryder, Marshall, membrey, king, Higgins etc to the point he is singled out? Interesting- hasn't Lukey risen from the dead!
Incidentally Ross had the same number of possessions as crouch yet no mention of crouch?
The point is that with the exception of Steele, Howard possibly Sinclair and dmac, the rest ALL fell away in the last

Billings was average all day and has barely trained all year. He's no right and it's not his fault they play him. I suspect if we had a healthier list we may not

[Moods]

We have a history of being woeful at closing games out. We try to be too cute and chip the ball around. We don't have the skill or the brains to execute this style of play. That style works with 5 min to go when we're 5 goals up, not 35 min to go. A professional outfit would win that game easy. At the very least we should have won by 4-5 goals, losing the last by 2-3 goals. Losing the last by 6 goals is unacceptable and infuriating,

[SaintPav]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

It’s not only up to him as it’s a team game but he’s an experienced players now and he plays in the guts and that’s where the rot usually starts.

He also has a habit of fading in the last quarter.

Wasn’t too wrapped with Howard’s kick outs too.

Same old.

[Sanctorum]

Posters should not forget we had 8 of our starting 22 missing and we haven't beaten the filth for 4 years.

Style we play is extremely taxing and our guys need to get fitter or chang the style they play to something more manageable.

All in all a satisfactory result not withstanding the somewhat deflating 4th quarter.

That contradicts the performance last week against Richmond where they did in fact play 4 quarters of intense pressure and ran out the game with consistent effort throughout.

That the team has a recent history of going to sleep when in a commanding position during the game sounds to me more like lack of strong leadership by the senior players - more mental than physical....

I expect the coaches will want to address the "fade-out" problem this week because it will be really costly if repeated against the next 2 opponents: Brisbane and Port Adelaide.

On the positive side, St Kilda has demonstrated that their best football this year, in the absence of some key players, still has them in contention for finals.

[Crossy66]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

It’s not only up to him as it’s a team game but he’s an experienced players now and he plays in the guts and that’s where the rot usually starts.

He also has a habit of fading in the last quarter.

Wasn’t too wrapped with Howard’s kick outs too.

Same old.

So no problem with the TEAMS last quarter's this year? Just dunny you think?

[bergsone]

We are well in front,lets take our time milk the time down chip the ball around.While the opponents we have nothing to lose lets go for it.Sure nothing silly,but we MUST apply scoreboard pressure also,way too negative

[skeptic]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

I always found this to be an interesting argument

Other people were just as bad doesn’t hold up for me

Whilst I agree with you that overall, the whole team was a problem in the last…
I have higher expectations of Billings and Ross than other players given age, talent + experience … and Dunstan was one whose performance dipped the most compared to players that were never in the game. Sadly he has a history of this albeit he was still good on the day and is in career best form

Different players carry different expectations. I’d have hopped these three stood taller when the team needed them to

So you have a higher expectation of Dunstan than, hill, Ryder, Marshall, membrey, king, Higgins etc to the point he is singled out? Interesting- hasn't Lukey risen from the dead!
Incidentally Ross had the same number of possessions as crouch yet no mention of crouch?
The point is that with the exception of Steele, Howard possibly Sinclair and dmac, the rest ALL fell away in the last

Billings was average all day and has barely trained all year. He's no right and it's not his fault they play him. I suspect if we had a healthier list we may not

The criticism remains valid even though it could be applied to more players. Given their total dominance of possession and ball movement… seems fair to suggest that the midfield is where we dropped off the most

[Crossy66]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

I always found this to be an interesting argument

Other people were just as bad doesn’t hold up for me

Whilst I agree with you that overall, the whole team was a problem in the last…
I have higher expectations of Billings and Ross than other players given age, talent + experience … and Dunstan was one whose performance dipped the most compared to players that were never in the game. Sadly he has a history of this albeit he was still good on the day and is in career best form

Different players carry different expectations. I’d have hopped these three stood taller when the team needed them to

So you have a higher expectation of Dunstan than, hill, Ryder, Marshall, membrey, king, Higgins etc to the point he is singled out? Interesting- hasn't Lukey risen from the dead!
Incidentally Ross had the same number of possessions as crouch yet no mention of crouch?
The point is that with the exception of Steele, Howard possibly Sinclair and dmac, the rest ALL fell away in the last

Billings was average all day and has barely trained all year. He's no right and it's not his fault they play him. I suspect if we had a healthier list we may not

The criticism remains valid even though it could be applied to more players. Given their total dominance of possession and ball movement… seems fair to suggest that the midfield is where we dropped off the most

I suppose it's fair to suggest anything, but would be good if it was remotely factual.
I responded to the original post by saintpav that singled out 3 players who apparently went missing in the last qtr.
Including Dunny, but also Stated Paddy was magnificent again and we would have lost without him.
Apparently the dunny we expect more from as an experienced player etc. etc.

The main problem with his argument is that Paddy had zero possessions in the last. That's no kicks, no marks, no tackles. In fact his opponent Grundy had 4.
Can you see why loading the blame in the last on one person rather than the team(less a few) is missing the bigger picture?

[The_Dud]

whipping boys gotta be whipped

[saynta]

I like what Dal Santo said on the radio....when I hear callers say the Saints aren't fit, I wonder if I'm about to talk to the dumbest person on earth....yep, that's you.

Just moronic

It's not physical its mental. For Feck sake donyouse know anything about how the game works?

You can't be fit and then not be fit. It's not a yoyo.
We had the lowest fat folds in returning players in 3 years. We had more personal best times in the 3 km run than ever before. We have a fit team overall.

Its mental, structure, organisational and predominantly psychological.

We are improving and will lose a few more and finish exactly where I predicted January 3, 2021.

10 wins and improving.

Ya gotta love Dal.

[skeptic]

It if wasn’t for Ryder who was magnificent again, we would have lost.

Ross
Dunstan
Billings

Where were you?

Sorry, Jack but I’ve lost patience with you. Good luck at Essendon.

Dunstan? Wot game did you watch?

He was quiet in the final term.

4 possessions and zero tackles.

You need any more help with this?

16 players had equal or less disposals in the last than Dunstan. But somehow it's on those 3 and the rest are ok? Interesting.
Dunstan was also second for contested possessions in the last.

I always found this to be an interesting argument

Other people were just as bad doesn’t hold up for me

Whilst I agree with you that overall, the whole team was a problem in the last…
I have higher expectations of Billings and Ross than other players given age, talent + experience … and Dunstan was one whose performance dipped the most compared to players that were never in the game. Sadly he has a history of this albeit he was still good on the day and is in career best form

Different players carry different expectations. I’d have hopped these three stood taller when the team needed them to

So you have a higher expectation of Dunstan than, hill, Ryder, Marshall, membrey, king, Higgins etc to the point he is singled out? Interesting- hasn't Lukey risen from the dead!
Incidentally Ross had the same number of possessions as crouch yet no mention of crouch?
The point is that with the exception of Steele, Howard possibly Sinclair and dmac, the rest ALL fell away in the last

Billings was average all day and has barely trained all year. He's no right and it's not his fault they play him. I suspect if we had a healthier list we may not

The criticism remains valid even though it could be applied to more players. Given their total dominance of possession and ball movement… seems fair to suggest that the midfield is where we dropped off the most

I suppose it's fair to suggest anything, but would be good if it was remotely factual.
I responded to the original post by saintpav that singled out 3 players who apparently went missing in the last qtr.
Including Dunny, but also Stated Paddy was magnificent again and we would have lost without him.
Apparently the dunny we expect more from as an experienced player etc. etc.

The main problem with his argument is that Paddy had zero possessions in the last. That's no kicks, no marks, no tackles. In fact his opponent Grundy had 4.
Can you see why loading the blame in the last on one person rather than the team(less a few) is missing the bigger picture?

Of course but we’re in territory where we are using stats and examples that suit specific arguments.

Not to put words in Pav’s mouth but those may have been the examples that for whatever reason stood out to him most. Or it may have been the case of a perception that Paddy did enough after almost winning the game for us in the third… or maybe it’s more realistic to expect Paddy to tire.

I think you’ve really jumped on the singling out part but it’s not as though he was providing a detailed analysis of every player on the field either and IMO he hasn’t actually said anything wrong.

Those 3 along with others were well down in the last quarter and IMO the midfield was handily beaten and looked to stop.

We have a very nasty way of stagnating late in games sometimes.
For some reason, when we’re not winning contested ball, the go to move seems to be to just kick long to contests and we’re very bad at run and carry and kicking so that others can mark

My contribution to this argument has come fuelled more so by a recent perception of how Hill is getting lumped into these types of conversations as of late (not to at it happened here)…
Such and such kicks a clanger… well Hill’s on $900k and kicks changers or possession count becomes the measuring stick vs Hill.

The point that I was making is merely bringing other players into an argument to me, sometimes feels like it’s a distraction from the point.
In this case… yeah those 3 players had poor last quarters and yes so did 10+ other players. For whatever reason it’s something of a button of mine as of late

[saynta]

Lead all day with 8 best 22 missing. No complaints here we’ve overtaken Collingwood going forward.

You wouldnt say that if you had of watched the VFL game today. Collingwood have far more depth on their list and a better future. They will get the best and youngest Daicos for just draft points at years end. All they need is a more attacking coach, a key forward target and they will leap frog us in 6 months.

You didn't actually read what curly posted did you. If we had no injuries about 12 or 13 additional players would have been playing for Sandy and they would have thrashed the filth.