It’s exactly these type of comments I was referring to.
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It’s exactly these type of comments I was referring to.
They use the phrase 'natural justice' now.Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:15pm One of the conclusions drawn by many is that a punishment is due. Does anyone know if any laws have been broken?
Assuming no laws have been broken or there is no potential for the allegations to be tested under civil law then how does society determine a punishment is required?
Genuine questions.
We live in interesting times.
For the record I'm very supportive of improving the lives of first nations people but I am confused if this is the way we advance.
If you read it why did you fabricate scenarios to try justify their alleged behaviour?CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 12:18pm
Yep read it would like to hear from the two that are being accused before I hang.
Look I understand for you it’s jump on the minority that way you can never be seen as wrong.
I think by natural justice they’re referring to those 2 probably not getting a job in coaching ever again.shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:32pmThey use the phrase 'natural justice' now.Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:15pm One of the conclusions drawn by many is that a punishment is due. Does anyone know if any laws have been broken?
Assuming no laws have been broken or there is no potential for the allegations to be tested under civil law then how does society determine a punishment is required?
Genuine questions.
We live in interesting times.
For the record I'm very supportive of improving the lives of first nations people but I am confused if this is the way we advance.
Sounds nice, doesn't it?
Just look at human nature for a taste of 'natural' ..animal nature...a pack of barking dogs.
Look at the 'shock'..as if how could it happen?
And look at the 'branding' going on..Trump, Fox, Hitler..
The 'natural order' ??
The_Dud wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:49pmIf you read it why did you fabricate scenarios to try justify their alleged behaviour?CURLY wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 12:18pm
Yep read it would like to hear from the two that are being accused before I hang.
Look I understand for you it’s jump on the minority that way you can never be seen as wrong.
I look at the evidence presented in the article and history of Hawthorn including the recent Cyril Rioli departure to conclude there’s most likely something in this.
You seem to just look at the individuals demographics and always seem to fall on the side of a very specific group.
So have I read this correctly…magnifisaint wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 3:12pm https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/haw ... 5bk1d.html
This is really stinking the place up!!
skeptic wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:54pm It’s hard to imagine that these things didn’t occur as stated…
What’s missing is the context. The first story for example, those aren’t rationale responses to the challenge. Hence the question becomes what was happening that got the club so worried like that?
That leads to the two obvious follow ups… is there a reasonable scenario that sees a club advocate for separation of a relationship and termination of a pregnancy?
Secondly… would they take this course of action with a non-Indigenous person.
On both levels it doesn’t seem right.
The next thing that perplexes me though is how have Clarkson and Fagan become the principle figures of interest here. Surely decisions like these would be primarily driven through the club’s welfare individuals?
We’re talking about near DFFH levels of intervention (noting that they’re obviously adults).
I’m also unsure as to how this happened so vehemently against the wishes of all those involved and the non-specific denial from Fagan and Clarkson.
If there was no wrong doing whatsoever, I’d expect a more impassioned response focused on clearing his name… this is obviously juxtaposed with I guess what legal instruct him t say.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is that like most things… the answer is pbly in the middle but geeez we are still missing a lot of information
My gut says it seems fairly unlikely that at least some misconduct hasn’t occurred but I can’t say i have my head around it either
That’s half of the issue the report has seemed to dig up, Hawthorn did not have the proper resources at the time to deal with these sorts of situations, so you appear to have people stepping out of their lane and thoroughly f-ing up.skeptic wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 2:54pm It’s hard to imagine that these things didn’t occur as stated…
What’s missing is the context. The first story for example, those aren’t rationale responses to the challenge. Hence the question becomes what was happening that got the club so worried like that?
That leads to the two obvious follow ups… is there a reasonable scenario that sees a club advocate for separation of a relationship and termination of a pregnancy?
Secondly… would they take this course of action with a non-Indigenous person.
On both levels it doesn’t seem right.
The next thing that perplexes me though is how have Clarkson and Fagan become the principle figures of interest here. Surely decisions like these would be primarily driven through the club’s welfare individuals?
We’re talking about near DFFH levels of intervention (noting that they’re obviously adults).
I’m also unsure as to how this happened so vehemently against the wishes of all those involved and the non-specific denial from Fagan and Clarkson.
If there was no wrong doing whatsoever, I’d expect a more impassioned response focused on clearing his name… this is obviously juxtaposed with I guess what legal instruct him t say.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is that like most things… the answer is pbly in the middle but geeez we are still missing a lot of information
My gut says it seems fairly unlikely that at least some misconduct hasn’t occurred but I can’t say i have my head around it either
If I am a white man .... why do I have brown skin?Linton Street Saint wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 12:29pmF**k me Curly, the poor middle age white man minority. You know what they say about arguing with idiots....
Great system.
curly drives me nuts about the umpires but this s*** is over the topWellardSaint wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 10:31am Listen everyone.
Stop the bloody pile-on over Curly.
He's got a strong opinion, which may not agree with yours.
Let him have that opinion, let it go, move on.
His opinion, your opinion, they have zero bearing on what's alleged, and zero effect on things going forward.
All this to n fro is making this thread hard to read.
All of you folk who are abusing Curly- you're just virtue signalling and chest-beating about how Woke you think you are.
You're not woke.
You're just like Granpa Simpson baying at the moon.
Let it go
If the allegation is true, then its definitely more than unreasonable. However one cannot be of no doubt of the validity of the allegations. And if the allegations are not valid, doesn't mean someone is lying.skeptic wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 3:25pmSo have I read this correctly…magnifisaint wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 3:12pm https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/haw ... 5bk1d.html
This is really stinking the place up!!
The partner was pressured into a termination and the player away told she miscarried?
Not doubting the validity but it’s hard to imagine that anyone would think this is a reasonable course of action.
It really is looking like a typical HR investigation run by reactionary HR type people of little competence.SaintPav wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 4:17pm OMG.
At least two key witnesses have yet to be interviewed.
The AFL is exposed to litigation risk from both the complainants and the respondents, but people get sacked every day for doing less.
Billion dollar business, million dollar jobs and public reputations at stake.
Amateur hour.![]()
Agreed mr VortexVortex wrote: ↑Thu 22 Sep 2022 5:18pm Eddy Betts has said the allegations remind him of the stolen generation. I'm trying to understand his comments, I think I get how he is making the connection from a racism point of view but as someone that has some experience in forced adoption and the white stolen stolen generations I'm wondering if it's solely a race issue.
A complex issue to unpack which may only be achieved by those tasked with investigating the facts and context.
As a side note this is another important event hijacked by our toxic corporate and social media landscape.