Any News on our new List manager!!

[happy feet]

Harsh assessment on Stocker. How old do you think he is? Same draft and same school as Max, pick19, was a free hit as a SSP. Was invited to train and had to prove himself which the coaches obviously think he has. Quite likely one that didn't handle the covid lockdown well.
Was there someone that's free and available you had in mind?

In the end, he got tested at Carlton and failed. 2022 was an year of no Covid lockdowns. He still couldn't make it and got delisted. I am all for taking someone from the lower leagues like Hayes. Stocker is a known quantity in not having a big enough tank. Any games he plays is taking away from another younger player, eg Bytel/Byrnes, etc

Stokers sample size of 35 games is far in excess of anything Bytel or Byrnes has produced with their opportunities to-date, this is their final year at the club unless they can prove themselves very early on in the season.

Why do you say that Bytel & Byrnes are in their final year at the club if they don’t perform? Do you have some decision making capacity at the club that we don’t know about? Please feel free to enlighten us?

[Vortex]

If he gets a game, it's because he is ahead of them . What if he is better? Do we never recuit rookies who may or may not be better than what we got ever again? He has only been offered a list spot- no guarantee of games
What have either of Byrnes or Bytel done that makes them a better prospect?. Bytel probably got the reality check he needed when he tested the market last year anyway
His troubles at Carlton are known and the belief is with a fresh start he can become the player many believe he will be.
Btw, I love Bytel and think he could be a very good player, but it's up to him

I think Stoker was worth a go but I'd only give him this season to prove he belongs at the Elite level, he's had enough time in the system and he's got the proverbial, second and fresh chance at a new club, players with this development profile shouldn't get more than a year at a new club. Has to come in and be a solid B or A grade player immediately.

I am guessing you are smiling whilst typing this. Can you imagine the club delisting a kid that's not a grade or solid b immediately? But shows enough to become a solid a grader but not quite immediately I E say finals time?

When you go at pick 19 and have had 4 years in the system you should be proven or at the absolute very least, VERY LEAST, I can't stress that enough, you should be ready to burst OR BUST.

We have 150 years of hero worshipping absolute duds for excessively extended periods, my genuine hope is this supposed ruthlessness and uncompromising standards arriving at the club in the off season finally involves a list management strategy that doesn't hang onto list cloggers. We have a reputation for it so let's change that because poor lists is what has only delivered 1 cup in 100 years but we keep sacking coaches thinking that on its own will solve the problem.

[Vortex]

Harsh assessment on Stocker. How old do you think he is? Same draft and same school as Max, pick19, was a free hit as a SSP. Was invited to train and had to prove himself which the coaches obviously think he has. Quite likely one that didn't handle the covid lockdown well.
Was there someone that's free and available you had in mind?

In the end, he got tested at Carlton and failed. 2022 was an year of no Covid lockdowns. He still couldn't make it and got delisted. I am all for taking someone from the lower leagues like Hayes. Stocker is a known quantity in not having a big enough tank. Any games he plays is taking away from another younger player, eg Bytel/Byrnes, etc

Stokers sample size of 35 games is far in excess of anything Bytel or Byrnes has produced with their opportunities to-date, this is their final year at the club unless they can prove themselves very early on in the season.

Why do you say that Bytel & Byrnes are in their final year at the club if they don’t perform? Do you have some decision making capacity at the club that we don’t know about? Please feel free to enlighten us?

I'm pretty certain you understand why many pundits believe Bytel & Byrnes have run out of time and need to show something this year to remain on the list.

And stop with the "us" business as you are embarrassing yourself and stop trying to create arguments and confrontation with your baiting.

Maybe try sharing some ideas of your own about footy rather than continuing to "others" yourself.

[Crossy66]

If he gets a game, it's because he is ahead of them . What if he is better? Do we never recuit rookies who may or may not be better than what we got ever again? He has only been offered a list spot- no guarantee of games
What have either of Byrnes or Bytel done that makes them a better prospect?. Bytel probably got the reality check he needed when he tested the market last year anyway
His troubles at Carlton are known and the belief is with a fresh start he can become the player many believe he will be.
Btw, I love Bytel and think he could be a very good player, but it's up to him

I think Stoker was worth a go but I'd only give him this season to prove he belongs at the Elite level, he's had enough time in the system and he's got the proverbial, second and fresh chance at a new club, players with this development profile shouldn't get more than a year at a new club. Has to come in and be a solid B or A grade player immediately.

I am guessing you are smiling whilst typing this. Can you imagine the club delisting a kid that's not a grade or solid b immediately? But shows enough to become a solid a grader but not quite immediately I E say finals time?

When you go at pick 19 and have had 4 years in the system you should be proven or at the absolute very least, VERY LEAST, I can't stress that enough, you should be ready to burst OR BUST.

We have 150 years of hero worshipping absolute duds for excessively extended periods, my genuine hope is this supposed ruthlessness and uncompromising standards arriving at the club in the off season finally involves a list management strategy that doesn't hang onto list cloggers. We have a reputation for it so let's change that because poor lists is what has only delivered 1 cup in 100 years but we keep sacking coaches thinking that on its own will solve the problem.

No prob. So to follow on from your thinking, after 4 years he might be ready to burst. He was a free hit as an ssp, so smarter people than I think he was at least worth a try.
In any case, who would you have preferred we take as an ssp rather than Stocker?
I would be interested to hear who you think are list vloggers at the moment?

[happy feet]

Harsh assessment on Stocker. How old do you think he is? Same draft and same school as Max, pick19, was a free hit as a SSP. Was invited to train and had to prove himself which the coaches obviously think he has. Quite likely one that didn't handle the covid lockdown well.
Was there someone that's free and available you had in mind?

In the end, he got tested at Carlton and failed. 2022 was an year of no Covid lockdowns. He still couldn't make it and got delisted. I am all for taking someone from the lower leagues like Hayes. Stocker is a known quantity in not having a big enough tank. Any games he plays is taking away from another younger player, eg Bytel/Byrnes, etc

Stokers sample size of 35 games is far in excess of anything Bytel or Byrnes has produced with their opportunities to-date, this is their final year at the club unless they can prove themselves very early on in the season.

Why do you say that Bytel & Byrnes are in their final year at the club if they don’t perform? Do you have some decision making capacity at the club that we don’t know about? Please feel free to enlighten us?

I'm pretty certain you understand why many pundits believe Bytel & Byrnes have run out of time and need to show something this year to remain on the list.

And stop with the "us" business as you are embarrassing yourself and stop trying to create arguments and confrontation with your baiting.

Maybe try sharing some ideas of your own about footy rather than continuing to "others" yourself.

Let’s be quite clear about one thing, disagreeing with you is not baiting.

Bytel was recruited in 2018 at pick 41 and has played 16 games after debuting in 2020. He is soon to turn 2023 and was given a one year contract extension. I can remember so me of his games and thought he did ok. Did not get any senior games last season.

Byrnes was recruited in 2019 at pick 52 and has played 28 games after debuting in 2020 and played 11 games last season.

I can perhaps see an argument about Bytel needing to step up but I thought Byrnes was probably coming on ok from what I can see.

The decision is really do we preserve beyond 2 years as was suggested or do we dump them potentially stripping us of depth in an injury situation, a bit like what we have with forwards at the moment. I guess that’s why we are not at the Club on big bucks, but sitting here as armchair pundits.

[Vortex]

Harsh assessment on Stocker. How old do you think he is? Same draft and same school as Max, pick19, was a free hit as a SSP. Was invited to train and had to prove himself which the coaches obviously think he has. Quite likely one that didn't handle the covid lockdown well.
Was there someone that's free and available you had in mind?

In the end, he got tested at Carlton and failed. 2022 was an year of no Covid lockdowns. He still couldn't make it and got delisted. I am all for taking someone from the lower leagues like Hayes. Stocker is a known quantity in not having a big enough tank. Any games he plays is taking away from another younger player, eg Bytel/Byrnes, etc

Stokers sample size of 35 games is far in excess of anything Bytel or Byrnes has produced with their opportunities to-date, this is their final year at the club unless they can prove themselves very early on in the season.

Why do you say that Bytel & Byrnes are in their final year at the club if they don’t perform? Do you have some decision making capacity at the club that we don’t know about? Please feel free to enlighten us?

I'm pretty certain you understand why many pundits believe Bytel & Byrnes have run out of time and need to show something this year to remain on the list.

And stop with the "us" business as you are embarrassing yourself and stop trying to create arguments and confrontation with your baiting.

Maybe try sharing some ideas of your own about footy rather than continuing to "others" yourself.

Let’s be quite clear about one thing, disagreeing with you is not baiting.

Bytel was recruited in 2018 at pick 41 and has played 16 games after debuting in 2020. He is soon to turn 2023 and was given a one year contract extension. I can remember so me of his games and thought he did ok. Did not get any senior games last season.

Byrnes was recruited in 2019 at pick 52 and has played 28 games after debuting in 2020 and played 11 games last season.

I can perhaps see an argument about Bytel needing to step up but I thought Byrnes was probably coming on ok from what I can see.

The decision is really do we preserve beyond 2 years as was suggested or do we dump them potentially stripping us of depth in an injury situation, a bit like what we have with forwards at the moment. I guess that’s why we are not at the Club on big bucks, but sitting here as armchair pundits.

My maths tells me Bytel is entering his 5th year and Byrnes is entering his 4th year so well past my 2 year cut-off strategy.

I'd suggest that if there was an exotic bet available on both players chances of becoming GF players this side of R1, the odds would be somewhere between $35 to $50 dollars.

As I say, most pundits would be predicting these two need to really show something big this year to justify continuing the clubs investment beyond soeaon 23

[Vortex]

If he gets a game, it's because he is ahead of them . What if he is better? Do we never recuit rookies who may or may not be better than what we got ever again? He has only been offered a list spot- no guarantee of games
What have either of Byrnes or Bytel done that makes them a better prospect?. Bytel probably got the reality check he needed when he tested the market last year anyway
His troubles at Carlton are known and the belief is with a fresh start he can become the player many believe he will be.
Btw, I love Bytel and think he could be a very good player, but it's up to him

I think Stoker was worth a go but I'd only give him this season to prove he belongs at the Elite level, he's had enough time in the system and he's got the proverbial, second and fresh chance at a new club, players with this development profile shouldn't get more than a year at a new club. Has to come in and be a solid B or A grade player immediately.

I am guessing you are smiling whilst typing this. Can you imagine the club delisting a kid that's not a grade or solid b immediately? But shows enough to become a solid a grader but not quite immediately I E say finals time?

When you go at pick 19 and have had 4 years in the system you should be proven or at the absolute very least, VERY LEAST, I can't stress that enough, you should be ready to burst OR BUST.

We have 150 years of hero worshipping absolute duds for excessively extended periods, my genuine hope is this supposed ruthlessness and uncompromising standards arriving at the club in the off season finally involves a list management strategy that doesn't hang onto list cloggers. We have a reputation for it so let's change that because poor lists is what has only delivered 1 cup in 100 years but we keep sacking coaches thinking that on its own will solve the problem.

No prob. So to follow on from your thinking, after 4 years he might be ready to burst. He was a free hit as an ssp, so smarter people than I think he was at least worth a try.
In any case, who would you have preferred we take as an ssp rather than Stocker?
I would be interested to hear who you think are list vloggers at the moment?

Maybe you are misunderstanding me, I think Stoker was a brilliant recruit and well worth a shot, but as I say, it should be made extremely clear to him that he needs to make the grade within his first season as he has already had 4 season in the system.

Our history of list management has been one of picking too many rejects from other clubs and hanging onto them too long hoping they can meet their early expectations.

Some rejects work because the kick up the backside works and they go to the next level, but they are the exception and in the low percentages of recruits who can turn it around.

[happy feet]

Harsh assessment on Stocker. How old do you think he is? Same draft and same school as Max, pick19, was a free hit as a SSP. Was invited to train and had to prove himself which the coaches obviously think he has. Quite likely one that didn't handle the covid lockdown well.
Was there someone that's free and available you had in mind?

In the end, he got tested at Carlton and failed. 2022 was an year of no Covid lockdowns. He still couldn't make it and got delisted. I am all for taking someone from the lower leagues like Hayes. Stocker is a known quantity in not having a big enough tank. Any games he plays is taking away from another younger player, eg Bytel/Byrnes, etc

Stokers sample size of 35 games is far in excess of anything Bytel or Byrnes has produced with their opportunities to-date, this is their final year at the club unless they can prove themselves very early on in the season.

Why do you say that Bytel & Byrnes are in their final year at the club if they don’t perform? Do you have some decision making capacity at the club that we don’t know about? Please feel free to enlighten us?

I'm pretty certain you understand why many pundits believe Bytel & Byrnes have run out of time and need to show something this year to remain on the list.

And stop with the "us" business as you are embarrassing yourself and stop trying to create arguments and confrontation with your baiting.

Maybe try sharing some ideas of your own about footy rather than continuing to "others" yourself.

Let’s be quite clear about one thing, disagreeing with you is not baiting.

Bytel was recruited in 2018 at pick 41 and has played 16 games after debuting in 2020. He is soon to turn 2023 and was given a one year contract extension. I can remember so me of his games and thought he did ok. Did not get any senior games last season.

Byrnes was recruited in 2019 at pick 52 and has played 28 games after debuting in 2020 and played 11 games last season.

I can perhaps see an argument about Bytel needing to step up but I thought Byrnes was probably coming on ok from what I can see.

The decision is really do we preserve beyond 2 years as was suggested or do we dump them potentially stripping us of depth in an injury situation, a bit like what we have with forwards at the moment. I guess that’s why we are not at the Club on big bucks, but sitting here as armchair pundits.

My maths tells me Bytel is entering his 5th year and Byrnes is entering his 4th year so well past my 2 year cut-off strategy.

I'd suggest that if there was an exotic bet available on both players chances of becoming GF players this side of R1, the odds would be somewhere between $35 to $50 dollars.

As I say, most pundits would be predicting these two need to really show something big this year to justify continuing the clubs investment beyond soeaon 23

Possibly, but I guess the unknown factor is will their replacements be any better? I guess that’s what makes sport interesting, the unknown factors.

[happy feet]

Harsh assessment on Stocker. How old do you think he is? Same draft and same school as Max, pick19, was a free hit as a SSP. Was invited to train and had to prove himself which the coaches obviously think he has. Quite likely one that didn't handle the covid lockdown well.
Was there someone that's free and available you had in mind?

In the end, he got tested at Carlton and failed. 2022 was an year of no Covid lockdowns. He still couldn't make it and got delisted. I am all for taking someone from the lower leagues like Hayes. Stocker is a known quantity in not having a big enough tank. Any games he plays is taking away from another younger player, eg Bytel/Byrnes, etc

Stokers sample size of 35 games is far in excess of anything Bytel or Byrnes has produced with their opportunities to-date, this is their final year at the club unless they can prove themselves very early on in the season.

Why do you say that Bytel & Byrnes are in their final year at the club if they don’t perform? Do you have some decision making capacity at the club that we don’t know about? Please feel free to enlighten us?

I'm pretty certain you understand why many pundits believe Bytel & Byrnes have run out of time and need to show something this year to remain on the list.

And stop with the "us" business as you are embarrassing yourself and stop trying to create arguments and confrontation with your baiting.

Maybe try sharing some ideas of your own about footy rather than continuing to "others" yourself.

Let’s be quite clear about one thing, disagreeing with you is not baiting.

Bytel was recruited in 2018 at pick 41 and has played 16 games after debuting in 2020. He is soon to turn 2023 and was given a one year contract extension. I can remember so me of his games and thought he did ok. Did not get any senior games last season.

Byrnes was recruited in 2019 at pick 52 and has played 28 games after debuting in 2020 and played 11 games last season.

I can perhaps see an argument about Bytel needing to step up but I thought Byrnes was probably coming on ok from what I can see.

The decision is really do we preserve beyond 2 years as was suggested or do we dump them potentially stripping us of depth in an injury situation, a bit like what we have with forwards at the moment. I guess that’s why we are not at the Club on big bucks, but sitting here as armchair pundits.

My maths tells me Bytel is entering his 5th year and Byrnes is entering his 4th year so well past my 2 year cut-off strategy.

I'd suggest that if there was an exotic bet available on both players chances of becoming GF players this side of R1, the odds would be somewhere between $35 to $50 dollars.

As I say, most pundits would be predicting these two need to really show something big this year to justify continuing the clubs investment beyond soeaon 23

Possibly, but I guess the unknown factor is will their replacements be any better? I guess that’s what makes sport interesting, the unknown factors.

[Vortex]

Possibly, but I guess the unknown factor is will their replacements be any better? I guess that’s what makes sport interesting, the unknown factors.

And so this is why the punt on a player like Stoker is worthwhile, you are hoping that he can become the replacement in quick time for the recruits you think are more than likely not going to make the grade, but you don't then hang onto a Stoker for 2, 3 and 4 years. Your turnover rate needs to be higher for the fringe, (non core) section of your list.

[axcellence]

If he gets a game, it's because he is ahead of them . What if he is better? Do we never recuit rookies who may or may not be better than what we got ever again? He has only been offered a list spot- no guarantee of games
What have either of Byrnes or Bytel done that makes them a better prospect?. Bytel probably got the reality check he needed when he tested the market last year anyway
His troubles at Carlton are known and the belief is with a fresh start he can become the player many believe he will be.
Btw, I love Bytel and think he could be a very good player, but it's up to him

I think Stoker was worth a go but I'd only give him this season to prove he belongs at the Elite level, he's had enough time in the system and he's got the proverbial, second and fresh chance at a new club, players with this development profile shouldn't get more than a year at a new club. Has to come in and be a solid B or A grade player immediately.

I am guessing you are smiling whilst typing this. Can you imagine the club delisting a kid that's not a grade or solid b immediately? But shows enough to become a solid a grader but not quite immediately I E say finals time?

When you go at pick 19 and have had 4 years in the system you should be proven or at the absolute very least, VERY LEAST, I can't stress that enough, you should be ready to burst OR BUST.

We have 150 years of hero worshipping absolute duds for excessively extended periods, my genuine hope is this supposed ruthlessness and uncompromising standards arriving at the club in the off season finally involves a list management strategy that doesn't hang onto list cloggers. We have a reputation for it so let's change that because poor lists is what has only delivered 1 cup in 100 years but we keep sacking coaches thinking that on its own will solve the problem.

No prob. So to follow on from your thinking, after 4 years he might be ready to burst. He was a free hit as an ssp, so smarter people than I think he was at least worth a try.
In any case, who would you have preferred we take as an ssp rather than Stocker?
I would be interested to hear who you think are list vloggers at the moment?

I’d love to be proven wrong. Somehow a reject from a club that had previously recruited a delisted Goddard (the s*** one), Hine,Acres and Newnes as recruits doesn’t inspire confidence.

[Yorkeys]

I’d love to be proven wrong. Somehow a reject from a club that had previously recruited a delisted Goddard (the s*** one), Hine,Acres and Newnes as recruits doesn’t inspire confidence.
[/quote]

Bit selective with the examples? Check out the Blues mids and forward line. Cross reference to Brownlow voting and top goal scorers last year.

[Scollop]

Yorkeys

You've been busy on various threads the last few days

Common theme (apart from your sharp wit) is your defence on current and past decision making by Saints hierarchy... and anything St Kilda.

Seems they can do no wrong.

I understand there have been many changes with staff recently. Are you the new official club apologist or is it just an unofficial role you've taken on?

[Vortex]

I’d love to be proven wrong. Somehow a reject from a club that had previously recruited a delisted Goddard (the s*** one), Hine,Acres and Newnes as recruits doesn’t inspire confidence.

It's why you have to have a strict policy of only giving rejects a one year contract. Ironically Carlton's reject is arguably greater than players like Byrnes, Bytel and Connolly. I think it's why the recruiters thought Stocker was worth a go, meaning they thought Stocker was at least an upgrade on that trio and that this is more than likely their last year at the club.

There is a big chance all 4 could be delisted at the end of the year.

[SaintPav]