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shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Thu 09 Feb 2023 1:18pm
We need to disrupt Freo..and I think having Philipou in, along with Windy, might help. Having said that, the inclusion of Owens in for Round One last year against Collingwood was a big mistake IMO.
Few will disagree with this in hindsight but it was a particularly curious move at the time as my impression (and I think it was a forum consensus but maybe I’m remembering that wrong) was the Windy was the clear stand out of the 2 in the preseason.
It was one of a few peculiar choices for that game… not least of which saw Kent.
For whatever reason… Owens seems to inspire selection. Highly rated immediately and is already beloved on this forum in a manner that surpasses his performance to date IMO.
Not knocking the kid at all… but 12 months ago a few people suggested starting Coops in the forward line and he’s made a few enemies for life here that have dubbed him the most overrated player of all time even though as a forward… his best has surpassed Owens.
I’m guessing Owens demonstrates that unabashed enthusiasm and aggression that ppl love
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 10 Feb 2023 12:11am
It was one of a few peculiar choices for that game… not least of which saw Kent.
For whatever reason… Owens seems to inspire selection. Highly rated immediately and is already beloved on this forum in a manner that surpasses his performance to date IMO.
Not knocking the kid at all… but 12 months ago a few people suggested starting Coops in the forward line and he’s made a few enemies for life here that have dubbed him the most overrated player of all time even though as a forward… his best has surpassed Owens.
I’m guessing Owens demonstrates that unabashed enthusiasm and aggression that ppl love
It's not just that. Ownes exudes some of the class of the type possessed by the types of young players in the past who we've all seen go on to become superstars. Of course, not all players who display this sort of class at Owens's age go on to become champions, but I can't help but be enthused by him.
Cooper, on the other hand, doesn't appear to have that sort of class. He's got the marking and kicking skills required to become a good full forward , but he IMO isn't tall and bulky enough or, alternatively, slippery and evasive enough, ever to become an A-grader in that role. A lot of posters on blogs go on about how he is needed to create more space for Max King. But i don't really think that's how the game works these days: defenders are far more agile than they used to be, and are drilled to guard space and move quickly to crowd the good areas inside the defensive 50 when the other team has the ball. Against the good sides, it's unlikely that a player like Cooper is going to attract constant man-on-man marking from a top defender, especially if he runs well away from the good areas that the opposition are particularly guarding.
Which is why I reckon the idea of turning Cooper into an intercept-marking defender is a really good one. He seems already to have the skills required for that role.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 10 Feb 2023 12:11am
It was one of a few peculiar choices for that game… not least of which saw Kent.
For whatever reason… Owens seems to inspire selection. Highly rated immediately and is already beloved on this forum in a manner that surpasses his performance to date IMO.
Not knocking the kid at all… but 12 months ago a few people suggested starting Coops in the forward line and he’s made a few enemies for life here that have dubbed him the most overrated player of all time even though as a forward… his best has surpassed Owens.
I’m guessing Owens demonstrates that unabashed enthusiasm and aggression that ppl love
It's not just that. Ownes exudes some of the class of the type possessed by the types of young players in the past who we've all seen go on to become superstars. Of course, not all players who display this sort of class at Owens's age go on to become champions, but I can't help but be enthused by him.
Cooper, on the other hand, doesn't appear to have that sort of class. He's got the marking and kicking skills required to become a good full forward , but he IMO isn't tall and bulky enough or, alternatively, slippery and evasive enough, ever to become an A-grader in that role. A lot of posters on blogs go on about how he is needed to create more space for Max King. But i don't really think that's how the game works these days: defenders are far more agile than they used to be, and are drilled to guard space and move quickly to crowd the good areas inside the defensive 50 when the other team has the ball. Against the good sides, it's unlikely that a player like Cooper is going to attract constant man-on-man marking from a top defender, especially if he runs well away from the good areas that the opposition are particularly guarding.
Which is why I reckon the idea of turning Cooper into an intercept-marking defender is a really good one. He seems already to have the skills required for that role.
Sharman is is obviously a late developer and is still a work in progress. Let's see how he goes playing forward in the first half of the season before considering a move. It has been reported he has improved his running capacities and size in the off season, plus he is a great set shot on goals which is something we are short on.
Ideally he plays the 3rd role but with King & Hayes out he is going to have to step up and play a key position. He is a natural forward and we dont have many on our list so I wouldnt be moving him away from there.
shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Thu 09 Feb 2023 1:18pm
We need to disrupt Freo..and I think having Philipou in, along with Windy, might help. Having said that, the inclusion of Owens in for Round One last year against Collingwood was a big mistake IMO.
Few will disagree with this in hindsight but it was a particularly curious move at the time as my impression (and I think it was a forum consensus but maybe I’m remembering that wrong) was the Windy was the clear stand out of the 2 in the preseason.
It was one of a few peculiar choices for that game… not least of which saw Kent.
For whatever reason… Owens seems to inspire selection. Highly rated immediately and is already beloved on this forum in a manner that surpasses his performance to date IMO.
Not knocking the kid at all… but 12 months ago a few people suggested starting Coops in the forward line and he’s made a few enemies for life here that have dubbed him the most overrated player of all time even though as a forward… his best has surpassed Owens.
I’m guessing Owens demonstrates that unabashed enthusiasm and aggression that ppl love
Probably agree with much of what Meha B posted.
Forum consensus, especially this one is mostly an echo chamber and Coops biggest issue in that regard was he was very lucky to get on the end of some cheap goals in his first few games. And so a few people comment he's got good running patterns, marks and kicks well and then those comments get repeated ad nauseum throughout the 22 preseasn leading to him being selected in just about every armchair experts best 22 leading into R1. And then there was the reality of his actual capability on display through the 22 season.
So when it comes to a comparison between Coops and Owens it's a case of beggers can't be choosers and Owens this side of R1 seems to offer more in his contested ability and defensive ability meaning he seems better without ball in hand. But hey time will tell if he struggles at AFL level too.
Seems a little fanciful to me - the perceived difference between them does not appear to be based on performance… and frankly a bit rich.
It’s outrageous to suggest Coops should get an opportunity as a forward but despite not having done as well as forward, Owens is a walk-in off endeavour/faith
Coops’ best has been better than Owens to date
Coops’ worst has not been as bad as Owens worst.
Not disparaging one or the other… but there’s an absurd double standard here
At best, these guys should be on par as opposed to one being clearly favoured over the other
Are they not two different beasts? One being a mark, kick natural moving forward. The other a young man with a growing body, plenty of potential and still to be pigeon holed as to what his best position will be.
I cannot see why both cannot play or why they actually should be in competition with each other.
As the El-Paso kid quite rightly & wisely says, "Why not both?".
skeptic wrote: ↑Fri 10 Feb 2023 1:40pm
Seems a little fanciful to me - the perceived difference between them does not appear to be based on performance… and frankly a bit rich.
It’s outrageous to suggest Coops should get an opportunity as a forward but despite not having done as well as forward, Owens is a walk-in off endeavour/faith
Coops’ best has been better than Owens to date
Coops’ worst has not been as bad as Owens worst.
Not disparaging one or the other… but there’s an absurd double standard here
At best, these guys should be on par as opposed to one being clearly favoured over the other
Two different players, but agree, essentially neither of them have an AFL grading, not sure what the lowest gradings is, however for arguments sake let's say it's F grade.
Both ungraded and yet to prove they could be standing in the dying minutes of an AFL GF. Both way off that pace.
I think Coopers Red (white n black) had one bad game, in the back of big expectations in the peanut gallery…in which I am a leading peanut.
The thing that I know, is that for whatever reason, the Saints generals didn’t select him from the get go in ‘22, which is pretty significant considering they’d pick Kent and Owens and NWM against him.
As for Windy, well I thought NWM was well ahead of him pre-22 and selections seem to confirm it.
Mysterious.
Similar to the Bytel-Byrnes mystery.
Bytel was the boy, then Byrnes, then both at the periphery..but Byrnes still ahead (due to his Irish name)
What will the great generals Harvs (5-star), Lenny (3-star) and BJ (2-star) do now? I am soooo curious.. as we all are.
I think Ross is sipping brandy as I type this, lowering the gramophone needle to Mozart.
Mmm...seems there are "teachers" out there who have already failed students without then sitting an examination.
I think we should keep our powder dry until players have been given appropriate opportunities rather than listen to those who believed ruckman were dinosaurs but now vital (x2)...apologies, I may be referencing a permanently banned sig..
I hope to be proven wrong but i think the Saints makeshift forward line early in the season will cause frustration on Saints fan forums, and in Lyon's coaches box.
Ghost Like wrote: ↑Fri 10 Feb 2023 1:55pm
Are they not two different beasts? One being a mark, kick natural moving forward. The other a young man with a growing body, plenty of potential and still to be pigeon holed as to what his best position will be.
I cannot see why both cannot play or why they actually should be in competition with each other.
As the El-Paso kid quite rightly & wisely says, "Why not both?".
They are two different beasts that can play alongside one another comfortably
Not worth a comparison…unless you’re hoping to build an echo chamber of negativity so you can run round saying “look at me I’m so original!!”
Can we just let Cooper play a year of football
Can we stop the nostradamous predictions that he is a failure ..he is a young man making his way ..good luck to him getting this far ..hope he makes it ..stopnputting s*** on him ..y'all sound pathetic .
Rubyjo wrote: ↑Sat 11 Feb 2023 11:19pm
Can we just let Cooper play a year of football
Can we stop the nostradamous predictions that he is a failure ..he is a young man making his way ..good luck to him getting this far ..hope he makes it ..stopnputting s*** on him ..y'all sound pathetic .
Well said Rubyjo. The easiest thing for us armchair experts is to go out on that very thick limb and claim a player, not picked in round 1 of a National Draft, won't make it.
Rubyjo wrote: ↑Sat 11 Feb 2023 11:19pm
Can we just let Cooper play a year of football
Can we stop the nostradamous predictions that he is a failure ..he is a young man making his way ..good luck to him getting this far ..hope he makes it ..stopnputting s*** on him ..y'all sound pathetic .
Well said Rubyjo. The easiest thing for us armchair experts is to go out on that very thick limb and claim a player, not picked in round 1 of a National Draft, won't make it.
There isn’t any confusion and conflict on the forum about Cooper Sharman. There is one poster who is having fun teasing the pot. Pretty much everyone agrees he’s a decent prospect.
Music makes the world go around, the world go around…
