For team balance, it’s Byrnes vs Ross

[skeptic]

Both are in the team as possession accumulating midfielders with the emphasis a bit more on work rate and volume as opposed to fine touch and finesse.

At the moment Byrnes gets the nod for sheer work rate, numbers and speed (to a degree).

Ross alternatively is way ahead on toughness (tackles) but also in terms of his ability to impact the contest or make a clutch play.

Byrnes had 19 touches to 14 but Ross had a whopping 10 tackles. Both in terms of disposal aren’t overly damaging with Ross far more consistent but Byrnes trying to do more difficult things.

The other thing they have in common is that both have failed to go with it after promising starts to the year…
Byrnes way more consistent week in week out but he hasn’t been close to his rd1 heroics and Ross with the much much sharper decline borderline droppable over the last 5 weeks.
I mean being harshly honest… Ross’ decline is the one that’s coincided with the Saints being down. That’s the difference between the first 6 weeks and the last 6… Ross was the guy getting us over the line. His decline has impacted us severely

IMO there’s only really room for one of this type of player at the moment and both really need to get better moving forward if we’re to go anywhere

[Trev from the Bush]

Zig, Zag or Bozo? Whose costume were you wearing when you posted this?

"Ross' decline...". What you are really saying is he was carrying the team.

[skeptic]

Zig, Zag or Bozo? Whose costume were you wearing when you posted this?

"Ross' decline...". What you are really saying is he was carrying the team.

100%. He was fantastic after he came back from injury. 27 touches against Port but more so than numbers, he was the guy that made things happen when it mattered.

Has been sitting around 15 touches since then and largely ineffectual since then and our decline has coincided with it.

He’s not been inconsistent like Crouch or Steele that have bad games or big quarters… has been pretty average especially when factoring on his capabilities.

[Banger9798]

prefer Hunter Clark to both but both Ross and Byrnes do a hell of alot of unrewarded running. A large part of our pressure rating is down to them

[bobmurray]

Zig, Zag or Bozo? Whose costume were you wearing when you posted this?

"Ross' decline...". What you are really saying is he was carrying the team.

Have to go Bozo, Zig was a devo, Zag was devastated.

[skeptic]

prefer Hunter Clark to both but both Ross and Byrnes do a hell of alot of unrewarded running. A large part of our pressure rating is down to them

100% agree. That’s why unless one of them improves out of sight… I think they what they bring to the table is a little too similar at the moment

[Otiman]

You want some similar players to slot into rotations.

[CQ SAINT]

Both are in the team as possession accumulating midfielders with the emphasis a bit more on work rate and volume as opposed to fine touch and finesse.

At the moment Byrnes gets the nod for sheer work rate, numbers and speed (to a degree).

Ross alternatively is way ahead on toughness (tackles) but also in terms of his ability to impact the contest or make a clutch play.

Byrnes had 19 touches to 14 but Ross had a whopping 20 tackles. Both in terms of disposal aren’t overly damaging with Ross far more consistent but Byrnes trying to do more difficult things.

The other thing they have in common is that both have failed to go with it after promising starts to the year…
Byrnes way more consistent week in week out but he hasn’t been close to his rd1 heroics and Ross with the much much sharper decline borderline droppable over the last 5 weeks.
I mean being harshly honest… Ross’ decline is the one that’s coincided with the Saints being down. That’s the difference between the first 6 weeks and the last 6… Ross was the guy getting us over the line. His decline has impacted us severely

IMO there’s only really room for one of this type of player at the moment and both really need to get better moving forward if we’re to go anywhere

Just out of interest, do you think Seb Ross would rather tackle than attack the ball first? Watch him closely, it's a decision he made a few times in his 10 not 20 tackles. Now compare that to Byrnes who plays a balanced approach. He is always looking to go in at the ball first. It's a major difference in their approach to loose ball. Ross just isn't as agile.

Ross's decline came when the coaches asked the mids to win first touch and move the ball forward. Only Gresham could get it done from stoppage. Crouch, Ross and Steele all went into decline.

We set up well behind the ball. Seb Ross applies pressure. Let Windy accumulate and let Ross get his tackle on.

[skeptic]

Both are in the team as possession accumulating midfielders with the emphasis a bit more on work rate and volume as opposed to fine touch and finesse.

At the moment Byrnes gets the nod for sheer work rate, numbers and speed (to a degree).

Ross alternatively is way ahead on toughness (tackles) but also in terms of his ability to impact the contest or make a clutch play.

Byrnes had 19 touches to 14 but Ross had a whopping 20 tackles. Both in terms of disposal aren’t overly damaging with Ross far more consistent but Byrnes trying to do more difficult things.

The other thing they have in common is that both have failed to go with it after promising starts to the year…
Byrnes way more consistent week in week out but he hasn’t been close to his rd1 heroics and Ross with the much much sharper decline borderline droppable over the last 5 weeks.
I mean being harshly honest… Ross’ decline is the one that’s coincided with the Saints being down. That’s the difference between the first 6 weeks and the last 6… Ross was the guy getting us over the line. His decline has impacted us severely

IMO there’s only really room for one of this type of player at the moment and both really need to get better moving forward if we’re to go anywhere

Just out of interest, do you think Seb Ross would rather tackle than attack the ball first? Watch him closely, it's a decision he made a few times in his 10 not 20 tackles. Now compare that to Byrnes who plays a balanced approach. He is always looking to go in at the ball first. It's a major difference in their approach to loose ball. Ross just isn't as agile.

Ross's decline came when the coaches asked the mids to win first touch and move the ball forward. Only Gresham could get it done from stoppage. Crouch, Ross and Steele all went into decline.

We set up well behind the ball. Seb Ross applies pressure. Let Windy accumulate and let Ross get his tackle on.

Really good observations, thanks for that. I’ve fixed the typo.

[B.M]

Both important tonight

Defensively
Ross did a job on Warner

Byrnes ran hard on the wing

[CQ SAINT]

Both important tonight

Defensively
Ross did a job on Warner

Byrnes ran hard on the wing

Warner goes hard too, there were no easy touches and the kid can play. Ross was really smart, tackled cleanly and looked really strong.

[Lennylegs]

Both important tonight

Defensively
Ross did a job on Warner

Byrnes ran hard on the wing

Warner goes hard too, there were no easy touches and the kid can play. Ross was really smart, tackled cleanly and looked really strong.

Windhager got the job on Warner in second half. Warner killed us in the first half.

Thought Seb did what Seb does best in the second half. Applied plenty of pressure and hit bodies.

You won't get that sort of effort from a player plucked from Sandy. He's a seasoned footballer, definitely not the sole reason for our poor form the last month. People saying he should be dropped are clueless. Think people were calling for Crouch to be dropped as well, which is just insane.

[The_Dud]

Round 2-7 disposals:
24, 24, 30, 26, 24, 27

Round 8-13 disposals:
12, 19, 12, 16, 14

Simply not good enough for a mid from Ross the last 5 games stretch

[Lennylegs]

Round 2-7 disposals:
24, 24, 30, 26, 24, 27

Round 8-13 disposals:
12, 19, 12, 16, 14

Simply not good enough for a mid from Ross the last 5 games stretch

Pretty simplistic assessment. Can you tie your shoelaces as well?

Tell me, mate. Name a player at Sandy capable enough and seasoned enough to follow a team structure and play accountable football for 120 mins?

Unfortunately we don't have the depth through the midfield to drop an onfield leader just because he hasn't gotten 20 possessions the last five weeks. Half the midfield would be dropped if that's the case.

[The_Dud]

Round 2-7 disposals:
24, 24, 30, 26, 24, 27

Round 8-13 disposals:
12, 19, 12, 16, 14

Simply not good enough for a mid from Ross the last 5 games stretch

Pretty simplistic assessment. Can you tie your shoelaces as well?

Tell me, mate. Name a player at Sandy capable enough and seasoned enough to follow a team structure and play accountable football for 120 mins?

Unfortunately we don't have the depth through the midfield to drop an onfield leader just because he hasn't gotten 20 possessions the last five weeks. Half the midfield would be dropped if that's the case.

So he doesn't have to lift his standards because there is no one behind him banging the door down?

Sounds like the makings of a premiership team to me

[Lennylegs]

Round 2-7 disposals:
24, 24, 30, 26, 24, 27

Round 8-13 disposals:
12, 19, 12, 16, 14

Simply not good enough for a mid from Ross the last 5 games stretch

Pretty simplistic assessment. Can you tie your shoelaces as well?

Tell me, mate. Name a player at Sandy capable enough and seasoned enough to follow a team structure and play accountable football for 120 mins?

Unfortunately we don't have the depth through the midfield to drop an onfield leader just because he hasn't gotten 20 possessions the last five weeks. Half the midfield would be dropped if that's the case.

So he doesn't have to lift his standards because there is no one behind him banging the door down?

Sounds like the makings of a premiership team to me

He did lift his standards last night. Laid ten tackles and worked his butt off. The whole team lifted their standards last night.

And at this point we have the makings of a team that'll probably play finals. Exactly where we should be aiming with this list.

And way to shirk the argument, by the way. Good stuff.

[The Fireman]

prefer Hunter Clark to both but both Ross and Byrnes do a hell of alot of unrewarded running. A large part of our pressure rating is down to them

yep....Hunter Clarke ..must get him back in asap maybe at the expense of Byrnes. but thought Byrnes did ok

[The_Dud]

Round 2-7 disposals:
24, 24, 30, 26, 24, 27

Round 8-13 disposals:
12, 19, 12, 16, 14

Simply not good enough for a mid from Ross the last 5 games stretch

Pretty simplistic assessment. Can you tie your shoelaces as well?

Tell me, mate. Name a player at Sandy capable enough and seasoned enough to follow a team structure and play accountable football for 120 mins?

Unfortunately we don't have the depth through the midfield to drop an onfield leader just because he hasn't gotten 20 possessions the last five weeks. Half the midfield would be dropped if that's the case.

So he doesn't have to lift his standards because there is no one behind him banging the door down?

Sounds like the makings of a premiership team to me

He did lift his standards last night. Laid ten tackles and worked his butt off. The whole team lifted their standards last night.

And at this point we have the makings of a team that'll probably play finals. Exactly where we should be aiming with this list.

And way to shirk the argument, by the way. Good stuff.

I'll answer your question right after you point out where in my post I said he should be dropped

[Lennylegs]

Round 2-7 disposals:
24, 24, 30, 26, 24, 27

Round 8-13 disposals:
12, 19, 12, 16, 14

Simply not good enough for a mid from Ross the last 5 games stretch

Pretty simplistic assessment. Can you tie your shoelaces as well?

Tell me, mate. Name a player at Sandy capable enough and seasoned enough to follow a team structure and play accountable football for 120 mins?

Unfortunately we don't have the depth through the midfield to drop an onfield leader just because he hasn't gotten 20 possessions the last five weeks. Half the midfield would be dropped if that's the case.

So he doesn't have to lift his standards because there is no one behind him banging the door down?

Sounds like the makings of a premiership team to me

He did lift his standards last night. Laid ten tackles and worked his butt off. The whole team lifted their standards last night.

And at this point we have the makings of a team that'll probably play finals. Exactly where we should be aiming with this list.

And way to shirk the argument, by the way. Good stuff.

I'll answer your question right after you point out where in my post I said he should be dropped

Fair enough then. Probably getting you mixed up with a few others on here. I just thought the words "simply not good enough" were fairly explicit in suggesting Seb needed a spell. But obviously I was wrong.

Cheers for setting me straight.

[Moods]

I reckon what this thread is telling us is that Ross is very much underated by many of us (me included)
When his rate of possession accumulation drops off, we seem rudderless in the middle. Not saying he isn't working hard because 10 tackles clearly indicates that he is. But he needs to find a way to win more ball. When he and Crouch were doing that at the start of the year we looked unbeatable. We're talking Luke Parker type game (and boy did the Swans miss him last night)

I think both points of view are valid. Ross shouldn't be dropped. Ross is VERY important to our structure. Ross needs to win more of the footy.

[Lennylegs]

I reckon what this thread is telling us is that Ross is very much underated by many of us (me included)
When his rate of possession accumulation drops off, we seem rudderless in the middle. Not saying he isn't working hard because 10 tackles clearly indicates that he is. But he needs to find a way to win more ball. When he and Crouch were doing that at the start of the year we looked unbeatable. We're talking Luke Parker type game (and boy did the Swans miss him last night)

I think both points of view are valid. Ross shouldn't be dropped. Ross is VERY important to our structure. Ross needs to win more of the footy.

Yep, this is fair. But I'd also say that's the case for most of the midfield recently. Seb has probably just been more indicative of our midfield's recent drop off.

Glad you see his value to the side. I'm just tired of the criticism he cops from saints fans. It's been going on for 5+ years. Not every player is gonna be a superstar ball winning midfielder. You need players like Seb.

Cheers.