Our list is better than we think it is

[meher baba]

Sorry to start yet another thread, but I think it is worth having one devoted solely to this topic.

For the whole season people have posted that our list is no good, Lyon is going to do a massive cleanout, we have so many mediocre players, yada yada yada.

But we have made the finals for only the second time in 12 years, and in a season in which we have struggled with injuries to quite a few of regular first-team players in previous years: King, Membrey, Ross, Clark, Coffield, Billings, Jones, McKenzie, Howard, Steele, Wood and Hill (even though the last three have managed to take the field in most games). Lyon's coaching has helped to a certain extent, but I also think that the list is starting to demonstrate some of its strengths as players continue to develop.

I reckon our backline is the equal strongest in the league with that of the Pies: and our backline talent is more evely distributed than theirs, and also more evenly distributed than across Melbourne's celebrated defensive unit, which I think we have now surpassed. Our backline was fabulous on Saturday night and yet there are three AFL-quality players on our list who were not part of it: Paton, Howard and Coffield. Surely there is no urgent need for recruitment in this area.

Our forward line is also looking pretty strong. Membrey isn't back to his best, but he made a significant impact in terms of our structure, which is why we have had more scoring opportunities in the past two games than in previous ones. Gresham is a bit of a weak link, but he might leave at the end of the season. Butler and Higgins are keepers, and we have more than enough tall and medium-sized forwards in King, Caminiti, Membrey, Sharman, Hayes, Owens, Phillipou and - pretty soon, at least IMO - Keeler. So I'm not seeing any urgent need for recruitment in this area either.

The middle of the ground is of course a different matter, although I think the main problem here is not so much that we don't have enough good players but that most of them are now over 30 years old or close: three of our key central mids - Crouch (30 next season), Steele (29 next season) and Ross (already 30 - and are two main wingmen - Hill (30) and Wood (30 next month). But there are some possible replacements already on our list. Windhager could still develop into a central mid IMO. Clark is not too far away, although he is very injury prone. It's too early to say with Hotton, but he's got something. Stocker could also perhaps evolve into a central mid. And Byrnes and Paton have done ok on the wings, and perhaps NWM could develop into a winger.

But of course we should be trying to recruit more inside and outside players for our midfield: certainly in the draft, and possibly through trades if somebody suitable becomes available (but surely Paddy Dow is off the table now).

One gap we tried to fill by going after De Goey is that of an explosive, attacking mid. Jones has some of these qualities, but his body doesn't seem to be up to it any more. Is it possible that Owens and/or Phillipou could provide the answer here? Or even Windhager? I think they've all got more potential than anybody we are likely to be able to trade in at this stage. Again, of course, we should go after any player with explosive potential that we can get in the draft, but perhaps we're ok in this area in the longer term?

I do think we should look at getting in another quality ruckman if we can. I'm pretty sure Ross would be keen on this. Maybe Gresham's likely departure might provide an opportunity.

But, all in all, I reckon the list is looking better than many think. Sure, if I was trying to build a list that was certain to win a GF, I wouldn't be starting from here. But, although the list is not as good as it might have been if our recruiters hadn't made some stupid decisions in the past, it is a list which has made the finals this year and which seems to have plenty of scope for improving further. We certainly need to work out some succession plans for some key players, but I reckon that a normal approach to recruitment can do that. I can't see any grounds for a slash and burn approach right now, and certainly no grounds for trying to bottom out and undertake a complete rebuild.

And we have ample scope for clearing out space for new recruits: Allison, Bytel, Campbell, Connolly, Highmore, McKenzie, Peris and, quite possibly, Billings, Gresham, Howard and Jones. I'd be sad to see some of these leave, and I think cutting 11 players from the list would be way too many. But none of these are essential players.

[The_Dud]

I think we're pretty set forward and back, but our midfield is very average.

We need Steele to rebound to previous years form and some of the young guys to come thru, and probably bring in some established A grade talent, to take the next step.

AFL is all about the midfield, a gun midfield makes your forward and backline look better than they are.

[meher baba]

I think we're pretty set forward and back, but our midfield is very average.

We need Steele to rebound to previous years form and some of the young guys to come thru, and probably bring in some established A grade talent, to take the next step.

AFL is all about the midfield, a gun midfield makes your forward and backline look better than they are.

I totally agree. But, as I said, do we perhaps have some emerging guns in Windhager, Clark, Owens, Phillipou and perhaps Stocker? Of course we should try to get in potential young guns in the draft. But trading for them will be difficult, and perhaps not as many, including me, have been thinking.

[Lennylegs]

Been saying it all year. Our list is a lot better than what most on here and in the media have been giving us credit for. Not complete, but very capable. I'm glad some of you are beginning to see it.

[Scollop]

Jack is back baby

Steeley is running on top the ground.

He's aiming for the prized Group 1 contests

He's primed for Spring.

[older saint]

Interesting take on the list, and agree it isn't too bad, but a coach with a clear plan and players understanding their role and requirements helps .

Def: So much of the AFL now days is systems and ability to help off ,however the ability to beat you man 1 on 1 if key to the top defence. Collingwood have Moore, we have Wilkie. From there the intercept big is next again Battle plays that role.
Howard hasn't had a great year but is good tall defender to play on the bigs. Stocker has been a revelation and found a role, Webster, NWM. Sinclair is AA level and one of the few who can go through the midfield. Windy has really developed and allowed Sinclair more freedom. Coffield i still rate highly. Young developing bigs at Sandy a little way away and Cordy deserves another contract as can contribute. Paton to me may be either insurance or gone.

Forwards are fine and plenty of options there. One of Billings or Gresham will be gone but still plenty of depth in that area.

Mids we need silk. Got great in and under players but at the moment Sinclair is the best ball user. Ownes could become a Bont type mid impact player. Phillipou seems to pop up and as his tank builds will play more. Love to see us tradeup and get a class mid. I don't agree necessarily trying to make HBF into mids. Hotton has big wraps on him with the little we have seen. McKenzie calf is a concern at 27 still has time if it is fixable otherwise gone, Jones probably the same. Bytel likely gone -for more opportunity as much as anything.

Don't need another ruck unless they can play forward properly - not like a Grundy. Very few teams play 2 rucks now and the ones that do usually use a forward - Cox, Daniher. Even freo has strugled with Jackson and Darcey as Darcey has no forward craft and Jackson is a ruck /forward. We are lucky with a Forward who learnt to ruck - like Gawn let hinm go and find someone like a Caminiti to provide 15 min a game chop out.

Need, like most teams to add top end talent.

Unseen players such as Allison, Adams, Heath, Keeler, Mclennan, Persi, Van Es need time

To me only defintes i see going are Highmore, Connolly, Bytel, (Injuries - Jones and McKenzie?)

[cwrcyn]

We need two classy, quick midfielders first and foremost. Without those additions, we won't move into the top 4. Really hard to obtain, though.

Next, we need a big, powerful 198cm+ key defender who can shut down the giants of the competition

Then.....a back up ruck. But we have Hayes and Heath, and I'm confident those guys can step up next season

[saintsRrising]

For the whole season people have posted that our list is no good, Lyon is going to do a massive cleanout, we have so many mediocre players, yada yada yada.

MIDFIELD

I think rather that what most reasonable posters have said is that to be a genuine ongoing Flag threat that we lack out and out star mids. At least one anyway, though two would be nice. Overall too another star or two in the 22 would be helpful in winning a flag.

This year, this midfield deficiency was magnified by Steele having an off season, probably driven in large part by his shoulder injury.


Now Owens and Poo both look like rare talents. Both will most likely be exceptional players for us. Will one, or both, be the midfield beast that we crave? We simply do not know yet. They may be, or they may just be very good HFs .

If they did did become such midfield beasts then our list will look quite good in a year or so. If not, then we will still have that midfield hole.



INJURIES

This season has also had as we all know a horrific injury run, and this had made things so much more difficult. Not that we had injuries too, but we often had our back ups injuries as well. This has this year cost us at least some more wins.
Look at the Pies now that injuries have hit.

[saintsRrising]

KEELER

He could well be that exciting wildcard we need to help take our list to the next level. Or he could be our next "White". Or just a good handy player.

Too early to know one one way or the other.