What I’d like to see moving forward…

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skeptic
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What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049838Post skeptic »

Riley Bonner - he gets a lot of airtime this week for his infamous 17 turnovers overshadowing his 32 touches. Obviously Essendon get credit for shadowing and reducing the impact of NWM who is the key play maker of our HBFs.

Here’s the thing though… this isn’t the first time a Saints play maker has copped this criticism. I’m recently memory, Hill has been on the receiving end of this critique a bunch of time for just running and bombing rather than using his sublime skills effectively.

Over time, Hill had worn it and gotten better.

I put the gauntlet down before Bonner to do the same. He has the skills, no question. IMO what happened on Saturday is that he made mistakes early and lost confidence in himself ultimately just going the bomb. The commentary was rampant that he forewent short passes and handballs to go a pointless long bomb… Saints Diana have seen it and hate it.

Give him a warning and spend the week training and working on his decision making. Kid is soooo much better than that.


Owens. I want to see him in the centre contest… not as a ruck. He’s a contested ball winning machine and a bull. For rest periods, he should spend brief periods forward but the kid is a mid.
Short of Jack Hayes, I don’t know what the solution to second ruck is but it ain’t Owen.


The sub. I don’t want to see the debutants and inexperienced players in the sun role. Subs are impact players.
Collard got on as sub, got in to all the right places, got 2 free kicks and was in a position to be damaging AF but was stooged by the playing on. I’d have liked to have seen him get the nod over Butler vs Essendon - Butler didn’t earn it and wasn’t effective.

Hastie look good too. Schoenmaker is knocking at the door. Give these kids a chance.

HBF - I know it appears that we don’t rate their play makers but is if a coincidence that our best game coincided with shutting down Nick Daiscos and not letting an opposition HBF get 35 touches plus.
We really need to do something about that. Geelong tore us apart from HB and so did Essendon

Ryan Byrnes… too hot and cold. Game was on the line and he had 1 touch on the last quarter. You can’t carry that. He’s in the team to be a contributor… a big one, not an also ran.
3 gamer Wilson got 9 touches, Byrnes had 5 more. Not good enough. Shape up or ship out. I know it’s not a like for like but I’d have rather seen Schoenmaker come on and spend time across HBF to free up Sinclair for the middle or just plain give Garcia a run in the middle of that was the comparative effort.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049840Post SaintPav »

Hugo must be very close to selection.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049848Post Scollop »

skeptic wrote: Tue 02 Apr 2024 10:17pm Ryan Byrnes… too hot and cold. Game was on the line and he had 1 touch on the last quarter.
Seb Ross was voted as best on ground by the Saintsational crew

Sebby had 3 touches in the last quarter.

All were uncontested. His disposal efficiency in the last was 66.66%

That means he had 2 effective disposals when the 'game was on the line'

Who do you expect more from ...Ryan or Seb?


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049891Post meher baba »

My problem with Byrnes is not when he doesn't get the ball, but when he does. In his fifth season of playing AFL, he remains way below par in the way he distributes the ball by hand and foot. The stats don't tell the whole story, because they don't record the fact that his handpasses often go to players who are flatfooted and his passes by foot tend to loop slowly through the air, giving the opposition time to counteract our attacks.

Like a lot of fans, Lyon has always seemed inclined to overrate effort - and willingness to follow his instructions to the letter - in comparison to skill. And that's quite often worked out well for him: eg, Clinton Jones and Andrew McQualter gave consistently valuable service under Lyon and played an important role in helping our club get to GFs in two successive years.

But we're playing a different style of footy in 2024 to the one we played in 2009-10: the emphasis is not so much on denying space to our opponents as it is on moving the ball from one end of the field to the other at lightning speed. And, watching the game on Saturday, Byrnes seemed as often as not to be a faulty cog in the machine, unnecessarily slowing down play because he wasn't skilled enough to keep the ball moving at maximum speed.

I know I'm being harsh. The guy puts so much into his football, he deserves better than I would be willing to give him. Luckily for him, I'm not in charge of selecting the team.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049892Post skeptic »

Scollop wrote: Tue 02 Apr 2024 11:40pm
skeptic wrote: Tue 02 Apr 2024 10:17pm Ryan Byrnes… too hot and cold. Game was on the line and he had 1 touch on the last quarter.
Seb Ross was voted as best on ground by the Saintsational crew

Sebby had 3 touches in the last quarter.

All were uncontested. His disposal efficiency in the last was 66.66%

That means he had 2 effective disposals when the 'game was on the line'

Who do you expect more from ...Ryan or Seb?
Not really sure I understand the point…

People always have bad quarters but given that Seb effectively doubled Byrnes’ output to 3/4 time and finished with 28 touches and goal… he gets a bit of slack from me.

Byrnes had 17, 21 and 14 touches in three games. As a running mid/winger, especially one with elite endurance that is supposed to finish games stronger, he needs to be more consistently close to or above 20 touches a game to hold his spot. I like the kid… but like so many more, he needs to go up a gear to survive.
If elite disposal and damage isn’t his forte’ which it’s not… he needs to accumulate


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049898Post Yorkeys »

Ryan made himself available, he was not utilised as well as he might have been.
That last quarter effort by the majority screamed of a poorly coached team, which is counter-intuitive to what has been the case. Crowd panic?


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049899Post Sainter_Dad »

What I would like to see going forward ......

W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W - W


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049900Post Sainter_Dad »

Yorkeys wrote: Wed 03 Apr 2024 2:15pm Ryan made himself available, he was not utilised as well as he might have been.
That last quarter effort by the majority screamed of a poorly coached team, which is counter-intuitive to what has been the case. Crowd panic?
Lack of onfield leaders - ones who would steady the ship and bring calm to the panic


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049920Post Otiman »

Riley Bonner - Agreed but teams will now leave him loose to make us play through him and trigger turnovers.

Owens - Agreed but I think he's our best relief Ruck. Still let him play majority of minutes midfield.

The sub - Can't agree more. Start the kids on the field and pull them off in Q2.

Hastie look good too. Schoenmaker is knocking at the door. Give these kids a chance. - Agree, Hastie has earned repeat selection at least until Wood returns. Shoenmaker 1 more week VFL as his last game wasn't as good as his previous.

HBF - Disagree. Martin had less score involvements than Owens. He was not winning/intercepting the ball which is what killed us last year (Sicily, Ballard, Lever/May, etc.).

Ryan Byrnes - Disagree, Byrnes is still young in age and games played, so is prone to inconsistency. I don't think you can call it any more than that.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2049964Post Saints58 »

I really think Battle gets away from a lot of criticisms he often doped the sitter mark at least 3 times Essendon scored on 1 I think and the other 2 he turned the ball over kicks straight to Essendon player and score.
He is a restricted free agent and we should trade him while we can get a decent pick for him.
Use the pick on a Key target for next season.
We have plenty of replacements in Cordy, Dougal, Shoenmaker, van es and Keeler.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050035Post Impatient Sainter »

I dont think Bonner at his age is NOT remarkably going to alter his decision making or physicality in the game. Port delisted him for a reason he is the classic of recruiters being wowed by his kicking, so much that they over look the significant weaknesses in his game.

If RTB & Boris can turn him around then kudos to their coaching, but I doubt he can make enough changes to make him a first 23 player. We got him for nothing, but he fails to improve that's another spot and 12 months we could have got into a futures player.
Last edited by Impatient Sainter on Thu 04 Apr 2024 5:09pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050039Post CURLY »

Think you'll find Bonners disposal efficency will improve plenty with King in the side.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050078Post Impatient Sainter »

CURLY wrote: Thu 04 Apr 2024 11:58am Think you'll find Bonners disposal efficency will improve plenty with King in the side.
That wont improve his ticker though, or perhaps he can play as the 'tin man'.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050079Post B.M »

Do running backs need to be contested bulls

Wanganeen Milera is far from physical

Understand roles!


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050084Post Impatient Sainter »

B.M wrote: Thu 04 Apr 2024 4:26pm Do running backs need to be contested bulls

Wanganeen Milera is far from physical

Understand roles!
No Nas is not, but at least he can win a one on one contest and commits his body when its his turn, Bonner does none of that. Perhaps you can inform us all how Bonner should play BM?


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050088Post B.M »

Pretty happy with how he wins the footy from HB

Can’t really recall too many 1v1 losses - btw every defender loses 1v1s at some point - or opponents don’t score

Do remember Nas losing a couple v Geelong though

It’s his ball use that is off - perhaps confidence?

But he refused to take a risk Sunday from d50 and just kicked it to their press (it’s like he purposely kicked it to Ben MacKay?!)

He was brought in for his ball use, he needs to pull the trigger (like Nas and Sins do)
He has a slicing left foot, seen it in the pre season. But he’s lost composure and just bombs.

He is not a lockdown defender - he is not a key defender
He is a running back - like Sincs and Nas - he exits the ball from d50 - that’s his 1 wood

Not defending 1v1

Stocker does that, Webster, Paton, Wilkie do that


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050089Post Otiman »

Bonner got spooked with his 2 mistakes the week before that cost us. A smothered kick, and one to the opposition.

The coach backed him in but he lost confidence and hesitated to take the best option.

I think you need to back him in again and encourage him to go for those kicks. Because the alternative is a waste of list space.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050091Post B.M »

Half backs (running backs) are the least contested players in AFL footy - they have the lowest tackle counts, the lowest % of contested ball wins and their game is mostly built around offence.

They sag, the if the defenders win the footy - seperate and run forward.

Most AFL scores are generated from turnover and transition

Running back are key to this - they generate ball movement

It’s the easiest position on the ground to win uncontested footy and get a kick.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050106Post Otiman »

Yep, just ask Nic Martin. 44 touches for only 6 score involvements.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050148Post SaintPav »

Tickets from our Saintsaitional connection for seats in the box if this gets up.

https://apple.news/Ap7LVnTNvTMOivUA0uBKaMQ


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050149Post Scollop »

SaintPav wrote: Thu 04 Apr 2024 10:31pm Tickets from our Saintsaitional connection for seats in the box if this gets up.

https://apple.news/Ap7LVnTNvTMOivUA0uBKaMQ
If you want to brush up on your Redlegs history, Saintsational is the website for that

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 6#p1838196


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050190Post SaintPav »

Fascinating stuff!!!


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050195Post Yorkeys »

Bring back Phil Carmen. Greatest ever Redleg. Loved umpires and the Redlegs Club disco.
I'd like him to address the boys on how to play Norwood, especially how to avoid that brick wall close to the boundary adjacent to the stand and how to utilise the bounce off the baseball diamond mounds.
Charlie Griffith and possibly Wes Hall played cricket there together at one stage (can you imagine facing those two on a suburban pitch even in a double wicket frolic) and I think there was a riot to protest the South African Rugby team/apartheid. Everton played an exhibition game there. Its a multi function sports mecca. Place is steeped in stuff, original home of the father of modern coaching Jack Oatey. It will be an experience the chaps will remember long time.
But watch out for that wall.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2050216Post CURLY »

Impatient Sainter wrote: Thu 04 Apr 2024 5:11pm
B.M wrote: Thu 04 Apr 2024 4:26pm Do running backs need to be contested bulls

Wanganeen Milera is far from physical

Understand roles!
No Nas is not, but at least he can win a one on one contest and commits his body when its his turn, Bonner does none of that. Perhaps you can inform us all how Bonner should play BM?
Salem hates body contact as does Josh Daicos.


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Re: What I’d like to see moving forward…

Post: # 2051081Post Yorkeys »

No betting on results. Then umpires that make obviously incorrect rulings that change game results in the final seconds can't have their motives for apparently suddenly loosing basic senses questioned by cynical people. Of course we know umpires don't bet. Except for those currently under investigation perhaps.


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