Innovate or perish. Part 2

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

Teflon
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
Has thanked: 728 times
Been thanked: 1762 times

Re: Innovate or perish. Part 2

Post: # 2061491Post Teflon »

SaintPav wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:02am Why anyone would be invested in one person is very strange and irrational.

Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

Weirdorama or what.
I understand that but we are not talking about your relationship with Trollop
I appreciate there’s a kinda weird sycophantic love going on there but let’s keep this to footy shall we?


“Yeah….nah””
Scollop
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 10937
Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
Has thanked: 3376 times
Been thanked: 2346 times

Re: Innovate or perish. Part 2

Post: # 2061493Post Scollop »

Teflon wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:36am
SaintPav wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:02am Why anyone would be invested in one person is very strange and irrational.

Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

Weirdorama or what.
I understand that but we are not talking about your relationship with Trollop
I appreciate there’s a kinda weird sycophantic love going on there but let’s keep this to footy shall we?
No. You should continue talking about weird stuff. Footy is obviously not your area of expertise :)


User avatar
SaintPav
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18650
Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
Location: Alma Road
Has thanked: 1544 times
Been thanked: 1901 times

Re: Innovate or perish. Part 2

Post: # 2061494Post SaintPav »

Scollop wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:47am
Teflon wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:36am
SaintPav wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:02am Why anyone would be invested in one person is very strange and irrational.

Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

Weirdorama or what.
I understand that but we are not talking about your relationship with Trollop
I appreciate there’s a kinda weird sycophantic love going on there but let’s keep this to footy shall we?
No. You should continue talking about weird stuff. Footy is obviously not your area of expertise :)
Does he need a mirror? 🤦‍♂️😂


Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18520
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1847 times
Been thanked: 825 times

Re: Innovate or perish. Part 2

Post: # 2062368Post bigcarl »

Jon Ralph, heraldsun.com.au


Ross Lyon is about to bring some basic and humble cuisine back into the St Kilda midfield when it actually needs a sprinkle of caviar.

As Lyon surveyed the wreckage of the Saints’ loss to Melbourne on Sunday, he again bemoaned his decimated midfield and cast his eyes to the VFL.

Brad Crouch had just come back from a knee injury and Hunter Clark was playing his fourth VFL game in a row.

Former top-10 pick Clark racked up 31 possessions, nine clearances (five from the centre square) and six tackles and, like Crouch, he has to be in the mix to add to St Kilda’s meat-and-potatoes midfield against West Coast in Perth this week.

But the Saints’ midfield is desperately crying out for some explosiveness and dash, given it has this year been one-paced and boring.

Lyon has made a point of stating no team in the past 15 years has played more players aged 21-and-under and yet made finals – as St Kilda did last year.

But where is that fight and spread and midfield polish?

Lyon started the process against Melbourne by handing Liam Henry centre-square opportunities and putting Liam Stocker to Christian Petracca.

But the Seb Ross-Marcus Windhager-Jack Steele trio has been the go-to weapon this year, with Steele (243) leading centre-square involvements from Windhager (157) and Ross (133). Jack Sinclair is fourth with 83.

In a season going nowhere – sitting 15th with just three wins – it is time to release the handbrake. St Kilda’s midfield has actually been relatively poor across Lyon’s 18-month tenure – ranked 17th in points from stoppages this year, as they were in 2023.

Their clearance-differential has gone from 15th to 10th, their contested-possession differential from fifth to 12th.

But with St Kilda’s defence the sixth-easiest to score against after being the second-hardest in 2023, the midfield is exposed. As Lyon said: “We are trying to build out a midfield which we have always got concerns about every week.”

No.10 draft pick Mattaes Phillipou was to be the touch of class, but has been demoted to the VFL twice and his output has dropped 47 per cent year-on-year, based on Champion Data ratings. Phillipou had six kicks from 17 touches and 45 ranking points in his latest VFL game.

Crouch has been missed, Zak Jones has bounced between AFL and VFL, winger Mason Wood has missed five games with injury, and Henry’s hamstring issue after two excellent games was horribly timed.

So with that in mind, how does Lyon get something out of this season to springboard into 2025?

He has lauded elite runner Darcy Wilson’s contested play and yet the No.18 draft pick has not attended a single centre bounce for the Saints in 2024.

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera screams of class off half back or a wing and yet he hasn’t sniffed the centre square once either.

Mitch Owens, excellent as a half-forward and pinch-hitting ruckman last year, has dropped 16 per cent in overall output and has only nine centre square involvements.

Time to change the mix-up?

Former Blue Paddy Dow is as advertised – two games averaging four clearances and 18 possessions, but only 42 per cent kicking efficiency. As David King would say, where is his ability to punish?

Jack Steele has been lion-hearted, averaging 26 disposals, 5.7 clearances, 7.6 tackles and 63 per cent kicking efficiency, but only his pressure is officially rated elite. He is football’s 21st-rated pure midfielder, with Ross 52nd and Windhager 66th of 72 mids across the AFL (not including wingmen, flankers or dual-position players).

At Sydney, Isaac Heeney is ranked first and Chad Warner ninth (Errol Gulden is a wing).

Gold Coast has Matt Rowell (third) and Noah Anderson (14th), the Bulldogs have Marcus Bontempelli (second) and Adam Treloar (13th), while the Blues have Patrick Cripps (fifth) and Sam Walsh (17th).

The Saints know it desperately lacks A-graders in the midfield. At least they can draft one with a bottom-six finish, as they try to find another through free agency.

Now Lyon has the back half of a season to reinvigorate the playing list so those rival free agents watching on believe it might be a group capable of something next season.


Teflon
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
Has thanked: 728 times
Been thanked: 1762 times

Re: Innovate or perish. Part 2

Post: # 2062472Post Teflon »

SaintPav wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 1:11am
Scollop wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:47am
Teflon wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:36am
SaintPav wrote: Sun 26 May 2024 12:02am Why anyone would be invested in one person is very strange and irrational.

Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.

Weirdorama or what.
I understand that but we are not talking about your relationship with Trollop
I appreciate there’s a kinda weird sycophantic love going on there but let’s keep this to footy shall we?
No. You should continue talking about weird stuff. Footy is obviously not your area of expertise :)
Does he need a mirror? 🤦‍♂️😂
I think you two need a room….😂


“Yeah….nah””
Teflon
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 23139
Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
Has thanked: 728 times
Been thanked: 1762 times

Re: Innovate or perish. Part 2

Post: # 2062473Post Teflon »

bigcarl wrote: Wed 29 May 2024 11:31am Jon Ralph, heraldsun.com.au


Ross Lyon is about to bring some basic and humble cuisine back into the St Kilda midfield when it actually needs a sprinkle of caviar.

As Lyon surveyed the wreckage of the Saints’ loss to Melbourne on Sunday, he again bemoaned his decimated midfield and cast his eyes to the VFL.

Brad Crouch had just come back from a knee injury and Hunter Clark was playing his fourth VFL game in a row.

Former top-10 pick Clark racked up 31 possessions, nine clearances (five from the centre square) and six tackles and, like Crouch, he has to be in the mix to add to St Kilda’s meat-and-potatoes midfield against West Coast in Perth this week.

But the Saints’ midfield is desperately crying out for some explosiveness and dash, given it has this year been one-paced and boring.

Lyon has made a point of stating no team in the past 15 years has played more players aged 21-and-under and yet made finals – as St Kilda did last year.

But where is that fight and spread and midfield polish?

Lyon started the process against Melbourne by handing Liam Henry centre-square opportunities and putting Liam Stocker to Christian Petracca.

But the Seb Ross-Marcus Windhager-Jack Steele trio has been the go-to weapon this year, with Steele (243) leading centre-square involvements from Windhager (157) and Ross (133). Jack Sinclair is fourth with 83.

In a season going nowhere – sitting 15th with just three wins – it is time to release the handbrake. St Kilda’s midfield has actually been relatively poor across Lyon’s 18-month tenure – ranked 17th in points from stoppages this year, as they were in 2023.

Their clearance-differential has gone from 15th to 10th, their contested-possession differential from fifth to 12th.

But with St Kilda’s defence the sixth-easiest to score against after being the second-hardest in 2023, the midfield is exposed. As Lyon said: “We are trying to build out a midfield which we have always got concerns about every week.”

No.10 draft pick Mattaes Phillipou was to be the touch of class, but has been demoted to the VFL twice and his output has dropped 47 per cent year-on-year, based on Champion Data ratings. Phillipou had six kicks from 17 touches and 45 ranking points in his latest VFL game.

Crouch has been missed, Zak Jones has bounced between AFL and VFL, winger Mason Wood has missed five games with injury, and Henry’s hamstring issue after two excellent games was horribly timed.

So with that in mind, how does Lyon get something out of this season to springboard into 2025?

He has lauded elite runner Darcy Wilson’s contested play and yet the No.18 draft pick has not attended a single centre bounce for the Saints in 2024.

Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera screams of class off half back or a wing and yet he hasn’t sniffed the centre square once either.

Mitch Owens, excellent as a half-forward and pinch-hitting ruckman last year, has dropped 16 per cent in overall output and has only nine centre square involvements.

Time to change the mix-up?

Former Blue Paddy Dow is as advertised – two games averaging four clearances and 18 possessions, but only 42 per cent kicking efficiency. As David King would say, where is his ability to punish?

Jack Steele has been lion-hearted, averaging 26 disposals, 5.7 clearances, 7.6 tackles and 63 per cent kicking efficiency, but only his pressure is officially rated elite. He is football’s 21st-rated pure midfielder, with Ross 52nd and Windhager 66th of 72 mids across the AFL (not including wingmen, flankers or dual-position players).

At Sydney, Isaac Heeney is ranked first and Chad Warner ninth (Errol Gulden is a wing).

Gold Coast has Matt Rowell (third) and Noah Anderson (14th), the Bulldogs have Marcus Bontempelli (second) and Adam Treloar (13th), while the Blues have Patrick Cripps (fifth) and Sam Walsh (17th).

The Saints know it desperately lacks A-graders in the midfield. At least they can draft one with a bottom-six finish, as they try to find another through free agency.

Now Lyon has the back half of a season to reinvigorate the playing list so those rival free agents watching on believe it might be a group capable of something next season.
Probably Ralph’s most sensible article in years..


“Yeah….nah””
Post Reply