3 veterans are done

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meher baba
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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064827Post meher baba »

WellardSaint wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 8:25am
meher baba wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 7:02am Why are so many fans obsessed after a win with bagging individual players and demanding they be cut? AFL clubs have big lists nowadays: what’s more important is who we can recruit, not who we cut

I reckon Webster and Ross could conceivably go round another year. Membrey isn’t looking too hot ATM but if dropping him means bringing Sharman back, I’d rather stick with Tim.
Big lists?
Lists have shrunk since the good old days.
If Seb, Tim and JWeb are way past their best, we need to say 'thanks heaps for your loyalty' but we replace em with 18 y.o. guys with big upside and potential
Absolutely, if you can find me some 18 year olds with big upside and potential. Outside of the end of season draft, which at best provides us with three quality young players per annum, the current system is stacked against Melbourne clubs in terms of recruiting young talented players. So these clubs, including St Kilda, fill the bottom spots on their lists with mature age recruits, rejects from the draft who show some promise, and Irishmen.

Therefore IMO here's no absolutely urgency in getting players like Webster, Ross and Membrey off our list, particularly if they are prepared to play on for less money than before. We will never have trouble finding list space for young players of proven quality. And we seem to have enough space on our list for plenty of experimental players. I find the way some fans on forums seem to get a thrill out of writing off a loyal player to be rather sickening. Perhaps they resent the fact that their footy careers didn't go as well as they wanted and this sort of carry on makes them feel superior to some of the men who have made a go of it.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064835Post saintkid »

Devilhead wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 8:00am Sharman couldn't do any worse than Membrey

He might even take a mark
That's what I have been saying for a while now. Playing Membrey over Sharman at this stage of a very average list development and with a view to the future, is just plain dumb and short-visioned.

Ross and Membery are finished. Webster still has a little to offer but I agree he is also not part of the future, when we finally can challenge again.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064839Post B.M »

Not potting any of those guys - it’s more about where the list is at - and acknowledging it’s time to rebuild

They have been absolute rippers to borrow a phrase

And they possibly could go round again - just not at StK

I’m probably Seb’s biggest supporter - as I acknowledge his achievements over 200 games
But he isn’t a part of the next successful team - nor is his performance keeping anyone out

Webster - still a courageous soldier
And if he was 27 or under - definitely keep - but he’s not

Tim - struggling. Too good for VFL but struggling at AFL level

I also think
Crouch is done ✅

Jones is done ✅

Campbell is done ✅


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064855Post seano1 »

Be a hard call , Boss still needs wins to help for new year to sell memberships but also must have an eye on who needs an operation for injuries…get them done now in readiness for pre season training and give the newbies games to see are they part of the future or just Sandy’splayers


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064868Post saintkid »

seano1 wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 11:04am Be a hard call , Boss still needs wins to help for new year to sell memberships but also must have an eye on who needs an operation for injuries…get them done now in readiness for pre season training and give the newbies games to see are they part of the future or just Sandy’splayers
Tired of this thinking. Sounds ok in theory but time and time again it fails. Get them right for pre-season training, yet they will break down again at the beginning or during the new season, as in the past.
We need to clean out once and for all and properly rebuild, otherwise we will be treading water down the lower end for more years to come.
The better clubs make the hard calls well before our club does on senior players that are past their use by date because it has a long-lasting, detrimental effect on list development and effective improvement.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064893Post SinCitySainter »

You cannot just have a clear out and go to the draft needing 6 or 7 players. Then you end up with picks in the 70s and 80s who you have to give 2 year contracts to and whose chance of ever being good enough to become a regular AFL player is about 1 in 20. You can bring in a bunch of 26/27 year old cast off's from other clubs like Bonner but that is how you ensure mid-table obscurity.

The only solution is to trade out players with some value and try to gain some high end draft picks and build that way. Accept propping up the table for a few years but at least have a plan to take us forward.

Right now we don't have a plan except to try to drag our opposition down to our level and maybe strangle out a few wins. That is not a direction to take the club forward that is a strategy for the now not for the future. Anyone who thinks this game plan of strangling the opposition to create a 10 goal dog fight is a way to get us up and challenging has drunk the coolaid. I just hope Bassett is not as deluded.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064897Post saintkid »

SinCitySainter wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 12:11pm You cannot just have a clear out and go to the draft needing 6 or 7 players. Then you end up with picks in the 70s and 80s who you have to give 2 year contracts to and whose chance of ever being good enough to become a regular AFL player is about 1 in 20. You can bring in a bunch of 26/27 year old cast off's from other clubs like Bonner but that is how you ensure mid-table obscurity.

The only solution is to trade out players with some value and try to gain some high end draft picks and build that way. Accept propping up the table for a few years but at least have a plan to take us forward.

Right now we don't have a plan except to try to drag our opposition down to our level and maybe strangle out a few wins. That is not a direction to take the club forward that is a strategy for the now not for the future. Anyone who thinks this game plan of strangling the opposition to create a 10 goal dog fight is a way to get us up and challenging has drunk the coolaid. I just hope Bassett is not as deluded.
Fair call and I am not saying a clean out in one year. Should have been done in stages over the last few years. We aren't proactive enough with players who have had their time and are not going to improve the club, hence the poor list situation at present.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064919Post B.M »

This year we should bring in at least 4 if not 5 draftees

Pick 5
Pick 19 Battle
Pick 23
Pick 41
Pick 59

Zak Jones delist
Seb Ross delist
Tim Membrey delist
Webster delist

Brad Crouch - Medical


That gives us the following youth
Nas, Owens, Windhager, Caminiti, Phillipou, Hotton, Van Es, Keeler, McLennan, Wilson, Collard, Garcia, Schoenmaker
Plus 5 x 18yos

Core
Dow, Clark, Marshall, Steele, Henry, Hill, Sinclair, King, Sharman, Cordy,


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064922Post maverick »

Keep Battle, pick 19 is not enough
Force FA to be pick 7-8 or keep and pay him big money scaling down over 6 years

We will get pick 7 - Ashcroft will be pick 2~3 and there will be another academy pick no doubt.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064926Post asiu »

Therefore IMO here's no absolutely urgency in getting players like Webster, Ross and Membrey off our list, particularly if they are prepared to play on for less money than before. We will never have trouble finding list space for young players of proven quality. And we seem to have enough space on our list for plenty of experimental players.
besides my desiring to not see the back of Members yet
'n keeping Webster bias ,
there's sense in that read


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064937Post Sanctorum »

CURLY wrote: Sat 08 Jun 2024 11:32pm
B.M wrote: Sat 08 Jun 2024 11:20pm Webster was well beaten by Long tonight

Slipping over constantly

He’s a good player but I think we need to find a better one
Long had 10 and a goal was being pumped up for chasing people.
I wouldn't say Long beat Jimmy last night, let alone comprehensively, as you suggest BM, he had 13 disposals and played a serviceable game. He will hold his spot in the team, especially while Stocker is unavailable. With Dougal Howard out for a while it's important that the back 6 continue their effective combination.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064985Post Otiman »

I don't disagree but we really missed Webster at the start of the year. Need 1 more small defender, Paton is the obvious choice just needs some confidence back.

Give him Charlie Cameron next week.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2064997Post B.M »

We don’t get any say in Battle

He’s out of contract and an unrestricted free agent


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065343Post Saints58 »

ShakenNotStirred wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 3:29am
B.M wrote: Sat 08 Jun 2024 11:14pm 3 of my favourite Saints

Great servants of the club over a long period

Webster
Ross
Membrey

Done ✅

Good careers but are running on empty

In
Sharman, Schoenmaker, Garcia
And at years end Jones.

No further upside to him. Cut him loose and move on. Go to the draft.

Same with Campbell although a cracking VFL player can he give us something at AFL level. Unfortunately depth only.

Heath looking a prospect.














Love the post great servants of the club membery, Ross, Webster but all finished better off putting in youth who are playing well at sandy Like Ari, Garcia and Pou to HB really think he would go well there getting his hands on the footy and is a big kick.

move Bonnar to the HF as a goal kicker he has played there for port might work.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065357Post Life Long Saint »

B.M wrote: Sat 08 Jun 2024 11:34pm Long was excellent
You have a very strange definition of excellent!
10 possessions at 40% efficiency. That's a long way from excellent.
His opponent had 13 at 84%.
Thought Jimmy did OK.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065363Post B.M »

He was their most dangerous forward- that much was obvious


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065375Post Life Long Saint »

B.M wrote: Tue 11 Jun 2024 4:57pm He was their most dangerous forward- that much was obvious
Let's be clear, there is nothing obvious about that performance.

1 goal from their most dangerous forward...Explains why they struggled to score for most of the match.
In a team that went at 76.7% disposal efficiency for that game, you reckon that a player that went at 40% was a winner?

Just to translate...That's four effective disposals for the game.

I think there's something in that for all of us!


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065378Post B.M »

You forgot to mention 2 goal assists 4 tackles 2 clearances i50


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065431Post skeptic »

He was ok.

If he kicked the 2 gimme goals that he completely fluffed, he might have been a match winner but he didn’t and wasn’t

He was an effective pressure player but it always boils down to the same thing… effort counts for less than damage. He was almost damaging


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065439Post cwrcyn »

If there's a total clean-out this year, then who do you de-list the following year? Every club is obliged to de-list at least 3 players each year. You can't lave yourself with a situation where you have a year where you can't de-list anyone because you've invested in so many kids and have no retiring veterans.

I'd be surprised if there's more than 5 players who'll be moved on.

Mostly likely 2024

Allison (shown next to nothing)
Campbell (age)
Jones (out of favour)
Ross (fading, ageing)
Paton (out of favour, limited skillset)

Most likely 2025

Crouch
Webster
Membrey
Byrnes


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065440Post Life Long Saint »

B.M wrote: Tue 11 Jun 2024 6:33pm You forgot to mention 2 goal assists 4 tackles 2 clearances i50
Didn't forget at all...Just saw them as not enough to offset the 4 effective disposals.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065465Post mad saint guy »

B.M wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 10:15am
I also think
Crouch is done ✅

Jones is done ✅

Campbell is done ✅
I think it's premature to write off Crouch. He was our best midfielder last year and has had a season ruined by injury so far. Putting up huge numbers in the VFL at the moment and realistically should be in the 22 right now.

Jones I agree on. I've generally been a fan but he just doesn't seem effective any more. His ongoing durability issues are probably the cause of his early demise.

Campbell is our Cordy in the ruck. Unfortunately for Tom, Marshall is far more durable than Howard. We need Cordy when Howard goes down and we need Campbell when Marshall goes down. If we pick up a capable, readymade ruck option then we can move Campbell on, but if we don't and Ro does an ACL in round 1 2025 we'll be kicking ourselves if our ruck options for the rest of the year are Heath and Keeler while Campbell is on another list.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065505Post B.M »

I think you’ll find Crouch’s knee is the issue.


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065571Post Teflon »

SinCitySainter wrote: Sun 09 Jun 2024 12:11pm You cannot just have a clear out and go to the draft needing 6 or 7 players. Then you end up with picks in the 70s and 80s who you have to give 2 year contracts to and whose chance of ever being good enough to become a regular AFL player is about 1 in 20. You can bring in a bunch of 26/27 year old cast off's from other clubs like Bonner but that is how you ensure mid-table obscurity.

The only solution is to trade out players with some value and try to gain some high end draft picks and build that way. Accept propping up the table for a few years but at least have a plan to take us forward.

Right now we don't have a plan except to try to drag our opposition down to our level and maybe strangle out a few wins. That is not a direction to take the club forward that is a strategy for the now not for the future. Anyone who thinks this game plan of strangling the opposition to create a 10 goal dog fight is a way to get us up and challenging has drunk the coolaid. I just hope Bassett is not as deluded.
That assume the game plan demands that the team score low and don’t try to score
Q1 sat night the team forward 50 looked dangerous
after that wasn’t game plan changes
Anyway the coach is on record saying he and the coaching group and players know they need to score more so this rubbish that it’s all “game plan” is Herald Sun cliches nonsense


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Re: 3 veterans are done

Post: # 2065572Post Teflon »

Life Long Saint wrote: Tue 11 Jun 2024 6:27pm
B.M wrote: Tue 11 Jun 2024 4:57pm He was their most dangerous forward- that much was obvious
Let's be clear, there is nothing obvious about that performance.

1 goal from their most dangerous forward...Explains why they struggled to score for most of the match.
In a team that went at 76.7% disposal efficiency for that game, you reckon that a player that went at 40% was a winner?

Just to translate...That's four effective disposals for the game.

I think there's something in that for all of us!
Long ??? Most dangerous forward???????
I’m gonna ask BM once ….are you ok ?


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