Either first strike and your out or just allow drug use!

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

The Peanut
Club Player
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue 08 Feb 2005 1:18pm
Location: Malvern East
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Post: # 445773Post The Peanut »

Eastern wrote:The real facts are that none of us fans would know even 1% of what really is happening.

Let's not forget that a lot of the illicit (I refuse to use the term recreational) drugs are out of your system in 6-8 hours, meaning that occasional users are very unlikely to get caught. It is only the serious users that get caught and that is why the AFL chose the 3 strikes policy.

If the policy gets changed to 2 strikes, what happens with the three guys who are already on 2 strikes (it is alleged that 2 of them have since changed clubs)?

The way I see it; drugs in the AFL is heading down the same path as drugs in society. IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE BEFORE IT GETS BETTER

How to deal with it in a balanced manner = VERY DIFFICULT !!
That’s right – as supporters we don’t know very much at all of what goes on in our own club, not to mention other clubs and the AFL constabulary themselves.

The reason why I use the word ‘recreational’ drugs is to demonstrate the clear difference between them and ‘performance enhancing’ drugs, but of course even many performance enhancing drugs vary greatly from each other and are taken for varying specific outcomes.

My understanding is that traces of some recreational drugs can remain in the system for much longer periods of time than 6 – 8 hours and their effect and longitivity in the system can depend on the bodyweight of the person and individual metabolism. This is general knowledge for young people who have occupations where they are regularly tested, such as in the mines. But six to eight hours would make players very nervous for a player who may have had a substance dropped into 'that wild fruit punch’ the night before, and they feel a bit strange the next morning.

Yes, Drug problems will probably get worse before they get better, if the problems do ever get better in our lifetime. Society is forever changing and as we correct one social problem it appears to trigger another.

I have not thought much about sportspeople and the’ illicit drug problem’ but the more this current saga continues, the more I think that the AFL has got their policy right. Backing down on their three strikes policy won’t change a thing apart from triggering further corruption within the system because there is so much money involved. It will also put some kids through hell and ruin their careers along with further damaging our beloved game, when the purpose of the policy is to send a message to the community that drugs will not be tolerated in AFL, and provide the players with professional support and some time to correct their habits for those already involved.

The three strikes policy should include the players club having some involvement in supporting them in their rehabilitation process and it is my understanding they do have. I believe that the AFL had professional advice from people working in this area before they set the policy in motion, so I would imagine the way they have set it up is considered best practice to support and protect the player, the club and the AFL throughout their rehabilitation process. If they get to the third strike then they get the punishment, end of story.

This process is responsible imo and supports the player and the community in general. If you just kick a player out if they get caught or name them straight away does anyone really think that will help them.

I can now see why the players association are up in arms over the issue of medical records being publicised. All medical records should be locked in very secure places and in my past experience of providing security for medical records is that extra locks are placed on the cabinets to ensure the utmost of security. This betrayal to society by channel 7 will not only effect sporting people, it effectively puts everyone in the community at risk of having their private matters between them and their doctors being made public.

Some players that are making a stand may not be involved in illicit drugs themselves but may know or suspect another player in the system that are or have had a problem or partaken a substance on a night after a terrible loss in a recreational setting when they have had too much to drink - or whatever.

The one good thing that may come out of this extraordinary situation may be that it will provide the community with some thinking about the problems in our community. This should give everyone a better understanding of the illicit drugs issue and the damage the old fashioned hard line sometimes causes. When there is no understanding, compassion and professional support for the people who have been affected by this serious problem, it will never go away.

Not so long ago the AFL needed to take a tough stand on racial vilification too but they did in such a way that it showed some compassion for the offenders and provided suitable educational programs. It appeared to me at the time that the AFL broke through new ground on this issue and consequently other codes followed suit.

The old Peanut isn't a goody-two-shoes or a pro-AFL-puppet by any stretch of the imagination. I am well aware of the serious corruption that has manifested itself throughout many areas of the organisation, but until further information comes to hand I am standing up in support of them and AFLPA on thier current stand regarding this issue.

End of rant


User avatar
carn_sainter
Club Player
Posts: 1470
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 4:49pm
Been thanked: 62 times

Post: # 445779Post carn_sainter »

It's a good system...it's a very invasive system

People need to understand that it's not a case of being caught once and then left alone...it is a zero tolerance system - caught once and there is intervention

but, the afl isn't bowing to the media and other low life gossipers by revealing the person's name...that's a good thing

people cry for 'zero tolerance' and suspensions after one use...do they recognise how many people have been caught once and how ridiculous the comp would be if they had all been suspended/sacked?

everyone points to the amount of money these players make...well, they deserve all that money...you can't live in a market capitalist system and say they don't...it's ridiculous to expect so god damn much from these footballers as human beings


plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Post: # 445786Post plugger66 »

carn_sainter wrote:It's a good system...it's a very invasive system

People need to understand that it's not a case of being caught once and then left alone...it is a zero tolerance system - caught once and there is intervention

but, the afl isn't bowing to the media and other low life gossipers by revealing the person's name...that's a good thing

people cry for 'zero tolerance' and suspensions after one use...do they recognise how many people have been caught once and how ridiculous the comp would be if they had all been suspended/sacked?

everyone points to the amount of money these players make...well, they deserve all that money...you can't live in a market capitalist system and say they don't...it's ridiculous to expect so god damn much from these footballers as human beings
Thank goodness someone understands the players case. Imangine after being caught once you are on the front page of every paper in Australia. Know come on guys how many reading this have tried drugs. Many I would suggest. Do you really think they deserve to be on the front page if they were stupid once and got caught.

Next season I think it will go to one chance and on the second you will be named. A lot fairer I think. Remember at the moment the AFL are the only sport in Australia testing for recreational drugs out of competition. And if you are stupid enough to have them and are caught on match day it is 2 years suspension.


User avatar
Brewer
Club Player
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun 06 May 2007 1:52pm

Post: # 445843Post Brewer »

I think essentially this debate comes down to the same problem that all debates do.

Does a '3 strikes' policy promote drug use?

Do injecting rooms and needle programs promote drug use?

Does sex education and condom availability promote underage sex?


Whether it is the AFL or the clubs themselves that do the testing strikes me as a bit academic. Personally I think that both the AFL and the club should be informed if a player tests positive to illicit substances, and work together to monitor the player and give them any help they need to get on the right path. If a player is up for trade then that information needs to be disclosed to prospective destination teams.

Whether the drugs are performance-enhancing or not is irrelevant, it is too difficult to draw a line these days and I believe that there is no place for drugs in an athlete's life, period.

For all we know, the AFL's policy may be working perfectly. If this latest 'scandal' is simply a matter of 2 players who tested positive, and the system has put them onto counselling etc to get themselves straight, then what's the problem? It's only the scumbags who 'found' and sold the medical records that have stirred the pot and then the hardcore 'immediate suspension and imprisonment' crowd that are kicking up a stink.

I'd definitely support the 3 strikes policy if testing were more frequent, eg test every player in 4 of the winning teams every week, but at the moment its main problem seems to be the public perception of being too casual and too lenient.
Last edited by Brewer on Thu 30 Aug 2007 11:31am, edited 1 time in total.


The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Post: # 445844Post stinger »

Bernard Shakey wrote:Outlaw outlaw motorcycle clubs, end of illicit drug problem.

The only reason they thrive is because they are supplied by organised crime, which makes them even more incidious.

Why do these kids (that's what they are) use drugs?
Too much money, too much spare time on their hands, boredom.

AFL has to do more to develop these kids as well rounded human beings.
yep....ain't going to happen though.....


...the things i could tell you..... :twisted:


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Post Reply