Dylan Howard

[joffaboy]

Is everything I hate about the supposed "profession" of jounalism.

1) Tramples on individual rights (mabye even breaking the law)for ratings
2) uses chequebook jouna;ism to "buy" private information
3) Gave up his source to police - did not protect his source
4) Was proven to be a liar last night on TFS when he outright lied about the AFL given his "story" its blessing
5) Revealed Micheal Brauns name with no proof, virtually inferring he was a performance enhancing drug user
6) Bought the video of Brendan Fevola (more chequebook journalism) from Ireland.

The guy is typical of the depth to which journalism has sunk. To reveal private documents under the guise of the "public right to know" is sick making in the extreme.

This is the type of journalism that gives the profession, as a whole, a bad name.

Journalism already has a poor reputation. Watch media watch at any time and you will see the lengths supposed journo's will go to get a story, not caring for ethics or decency.

IMHO Howard is the epitimy of the gutter crawling, bottom feeding, ambulance chasing, sensationalist ethics free garbage that passes for a journalist nowdays.

Would be interested in how the usual suspects and defenders of the fourth estate, defend this great example of your supposed profession?

[B W and R all over]

Not defending him, but part of the blame should go to the Channel 7 news director who clearly had a major part to play in all this.

[evertonfc]

Agree with the first two posts - and an excellent point is raised by the second.

It's just such a shame that sex sells, and there's an industry for it.

[Riewoldting]

Disagree with you BWR all over.

ALL of the blame should go to the news director.

No fan of Howard but he is taking a big one for the team right here. And he will be rewarded for his loyalty, make no mistake.

Re: validity or otherwise of journalism

Yes it is disgusting the depths to which some will go for a scoop, but thus it has been and thus it will ever be.

As an institution and a profession, journalism certainly has an important role to play, but unfortunately it will always be driven by the love of the dollar. Your dollar.

Personal morals and industry ethics used to mean something, especially with respect to press journalists. With the advent of broadcast journalism over the past half-century, that side of the profession has been eroded beyond repair.

The alternative is a monopolistic state-run media.

[osama milne laden]

Even Patrick Smith has taken time off his latest obsession (Ray Horsbrough) to slag Dylsee.

A bit different from 2004 when Pat, in his capacity as head of the football writers' association, continually defended Hutchy over the incorrect naming of one of our players.

[evertonfc]

As an institution and a profession, journalism certainly has an important role to play, but unfortunately it will always be driven by the love of the dollar. Your dollar.

Exactly.

People should stop investing their hard-earned cash and spare time into watching/reading News Ltd, Fairfax, Nine and Seven if they think the product/service is not up to scratch.

Market forces determine media. They are responsible to shareholders and out to make a profit. The ONLY way they will change things is if people vote with their dollars and cents.

If you don't like what's out there, don't just complain on internet forums, do something real; stop fattening up the bottom line of Murdoch, Packer and Stokes - that will hurt them and force them to change.

[cowboy18]

Market forces determine media. They are responsible to shareholders and out to make a profit. The ONLY way they will change things is if people vote with their dollars and cents.

On a tangent and not disagreeing with what's been written - there's one tangible impediment to the whole "market forces" notion and that's media monopolies.

For many unwilling to miss out on their access to certain treats that the big media operators supply, the likes of News, PBL, Fairfax, Seven etc. are their only reasonable source. There seems little ability to unbundle many of their offerings. Datacasting and digital television should have provided the opportunity for a media where genuine competition fuelled better services and wider offerings - yet we're stuck with the status quo of big players limiting what we can see. And more insidiously, how we see it.

The protection of media monopolies is ridiculous given the pretences we have to globalization and free trade.

Couple that with the cynical dumbing down of the populace (and how we willingly accept our "news" now) and a world where important issues are resolved with soundbites rather than facts and it all paints a grim picture of what now passes for news.

[meher baba]

To be fair to journalists, it has to be said that reporters on commercial news and TV shows are at the bottom of the journalistic food chain: only one rung above talkback hosts IMO.

So seeing Howard as epitomising everything that is wrong about journalism is a bit like seeing parking officials as epitomising everything that is wrong with government.

To me, unashamed party propagandists like Piers Akerman and flippant press gallery hacks like Matt Price and Michael Brissenden who can't report on anything with a straight face embody all that is wrong with journalism in this country today.

[joffaboy]

If you don't like what's out there, don't just complain on internet forums, do something real; stop fattening up the bottom line of Murdoch, Packer and Stokes - that will hurt them and force them to change.

So here we have it. A "professions" ethics prosituted for the almighty $.

To blithely blame market forces for the lack of ethics and professionalism just shows the lack of due care and a total disregard for the so called professions code of conduct.

Really pitiful, and journos wonder why the community and society have no confidence in them and treat them with contempt.

Really piss weak response, but typical of a journo. Abbrogate all responsibility and blame the punter.

[evertonfc]

Ultimately then, Cowboy, for you, it's a question of priorties about your consumption habits and what you're prepared to compromise on, isn't it?

I mean, if you have to watch footy, doing so on Seven probably isn't that big a deal...because you don't really have a choice if you want to watch footy that badly, so you'll accept the compromise. Capiche?

But for news, well, who says you have to watch Seven and Dylan Howard?

- Get your daily offerings from AAP's wire service
- Listen to ABC radio
- Watch SBS and ABC TV news at night
- Don't watch commercials on commercial TV

And I guarentee, you'll be minimising the pesky problems of gutter journalism journalism and commercial TV.

[joffaboy]

- Watch SBS and ABC TV news at night
- Don't watch commercials on commercial TV

And I guarentee, you'll be minimising the pesky problems of gutter journalism journalism and commercial TV.

lol - the current political neo cons in govt have made sure that "independant" news has been dumbed down to typical journalistic standards.

I mean Stan grant FFS Amazed he hasn't brought his guitar on set and seranaded us during World News

Journalism and journalists do themselves a disservice with their pathetic self regulation.

Absolutely pathetic and laughable for a "profession".

[evertonfc]

If you don't like what's out there, don't just complain on internet forums, do something real; stop fattening up the bottom line of Murdoch, Packer and Stokes - that will hurt them and force them to change.

So here we have it. A "professions" ethics prosituted for the almighty $.

To blithely blame market forces for the lack of ethics and professionalism just shows the lack of due care and a total disregard for the so called professions code of conduct.

Really pitiful, and journos wonder why the community and society have no confidence in them and treat them with contempt.

Really piss weak response, but typical of a journo. Abbrogate all responsibility and blame the punter.

Why are you attacking me for? You seem obsessed with me.

I'm not a journalist - I'm just unsure as to why they get such a hard run when people pay and consume their stuff 24/7.

It doesn't make much sense to me. You harp on about this code of ethics and all this crap - sure, it's gone down in recent years, but trust me, the people journalists are responsible too are not you, it's their desk editor.

Their desk editor is responsible to their editor-in-chief.

The editor-in-chief is responsible to the CFO and CEO.

The CFOs and CEOs are responsible to shareholders who demand a profit.

The shareholders demand to make money, and this filters all the way down the line. It's just like any business.

I wish all the journalists rebelled and started up their own, not-for-profit rag which only used great bits of reporting. But they need to put food on the table for their families, and to be honest, anonymoys posters who post threads like these on an internet forum are just bugs on the windscreen.

- Watch SBS and ABC TV news at night
- Don't watch commercials on commercial TV

And I guarentee, you'll be minimising the pesky problems of gutter journalism journalism and commercial TV.

lol - the current political neo cons in govt have made sure that "independant" news has been dumbed down to typical journalistic standards.

I mean Stan grant FFS Amazed he hasn't brought his guitar on set and seranaded us during World News

Journalism and journalists do themselves a disservice with their pathetic self regulation.

Absolutely pathetic and laughable for a "profession".

Can I ask, why do you care so much?

If they self-regulate, so what? Isn't that their business? They can call themselves a profession if they like. Meh, I don't have a problem with it. It's just a name. Being a doctor or a prostitute may also be considered a profession. So what?

It's getting a bit old and stale, Joff.

[HarveysDeciple]

Interesting thing in my Journalism course.

there are 6 core units you must complete, and then a littany of electives that you can pick to fill in the other two units you need to reach your minimum of 8.

where do you think Journalism ethics sits?
Yes thats right its an elective....not a core unit.

[evertonfc]

Interesting thing in my Journalism course.

there are 6 core units you must complete, and then a littany of electives that you can pick to fill in the other two units you need to reach your minimum of 8.

where do you think Journalism ethics sits?
Yes thats right its an elective....not a core unit.

Journalist courses look like a laugh-and-a-half to me.

Seriously, have a crack at an MBA, and you'll probably learn more about journalism by reverse osmosis.

[meher baba]

where do you think Journalism ethics sits?

Perhaps under J in the Oxford Dictionary of Oxymorons.

[cowboy18]

Ultimately then, Cowboy, for you, it's a question of priorties about your consumption habits and what you're prepared to compromise on, isn't it?

I mean, if you have to watch footy, doing so on Seven probably isn't that big a deal...because you don't really have a choice if you want to watch footy that badly, so you'll accept the compromise. Capiche?

Capisce!

I've no argument that you need to make a choice - that's clear. I was arguing tangentially that I want more choice and that the mechanism should have been there to allow us to do that.

But back to the topic - I'm not sure why there should be no criticism of crappy journalism once the choice has been made to view it.

Media is far more interactive now - passive acceptance of whatever tripe is spouted by journalists is subject to far more scrunity by unregulated sources like these forums.

Critically evaluating the bottom feeders that play such an important role in shaping opinions is a fair exercise. And when they cheat/lie/misrepresent or even simply opine, even more so.

[cowboy18]

I'm not a journalist - I'm just unsure as to why they get such a hard run when people pay and consume their stuff 24/7.

Sounds like the McDonalds defence!



I'm quite underwhelmed by them as well.

[evertonfc]

ut back to the topic - I'm not sure why there should be no criticism of crappy journalism once the choice has been made to view it.

Well I don't think anyone is saying you can't criticise, but it's my view that if you want to make a difference, hit them where it hurts - and where it hurts for these bigawfulheartless media companies is on the bottom line.

If you don't buy their product, it will send a big message that they have to improve their standards and cater for what YOU want if they want YOUR money.

Sad as it may be - companies should want to produce the best stuff they can, not the best selling - it's how I believe consumers can get one back over big media and shape as customise it as they see fit.

Sounds like the McDonalds defence!

I'm quite underwhelmed by them as well.

Notice that when familes starting spending their money elsewhere on healthier alternatives, Maccas sharpened up their game?

Coincidence?

[cowboy18]

Not sure one person switching off would matter anyway (in my case I can't watch it because of the nighlty battle over which of Transformers/TMNT/Thomas) is showing on our box)

In terms of hitting where it hurts it's interesting to see how the Christian Right in the US have marshalled forces to do that via a major revenue raising stream - their advertisers.

Happens here too - companies pulling adverts away from a program on seven "the L word" after "the Saltshakers" got into them.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/ ... 59542.html


I'm not sure people feel strongly enough about crappy journalism to do this ( I don't, I prefer to whinge and moan and move on) but once our opinion makers choose to deceive it's important that they be held to task.

[congorozides]

Did I mention I hate Hutchy? Tosser.

[joffaboy]

Yes thats right its an elective....not a core unit.

That says it all HD.

In my professions post grad it is the first core unit that everybodyb]HAS[/B] to do. No option, dont do it and you dont get your post grad.

[joffaboy]

Why are you attacking me for? You seem obsessed with me.

lol - you really have a sense of self importance dont you

You harp on about this code of ethics and all this crap -

so ethics in a profession is crap hey - hmmmm I see.

sure, it's gone down in recent years, but trust me, the people journalists are responsible too are not you, it's their desk editor.

If it is a profession they have a greater responsibility to the name of that profession. Doesn't matter if you think it is crap or not.

The CFOs and CEOs are responsible to shareholders who demand a profit.

The shareholders demand to make money, and this filters all the way down the line. It's just like any business.

lol - this type of simplistic Milton Friedman free market mentality when out with button up shoes. Business ethic is a little more complex than this very simple concept - but carry on, you amuse me with your bush lawyer defence of the indefensible

I wish all the journalists rebelled and started up their own, not-for-profit rag which only used great bits of reporting. But they need to put food on the table for their families, and to be honest, anonymoys posters who post threads like these on an internet forum are just bugs on the windscreen.

Drug dealers need to put food on the table as well, so do gun runner, so do people smugglers, and to be honest, ignorant simpletons who haven't a clue are laughable and make fools of themselves.

You really are clueless with you laizze faire 19th century take on business, ethics, integrity and professionalism. Ever heard of CSR? No not the sugar mill.

really it is incredibly funny to watch someone who obviously believes the rubbish he posts here

- Watch SBS and ABC TV news at night
- Don't watch commercials on commercial TV

And I guarentee, you'll be minimising the pesky problems of gutter journalism journalism and commercial TV.

Again straight back to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. You sound like someone who knows the cost (or revenue) of everything but the value of nothing. Really this rigid narrow minded thinking flys directly in the face of all modern business practices generally partaken by businesses and professionals.

Can I ask, why do you care so much?

Ask away

If they self-regulate, so what? Isn't that their business?

Because they live in our society. or do you believe that all of societies standards are just a slave to profit making? If they affect the standards of the society they live in they deserve to be scrutinised by that society.

They can call themselves a profession if they like. Meh, I don't have a problem with it. It's just a name. Being a doctor or a prostitute may also be considered a profession. So what?

Spoken by someone who obviously is either not a professional or has no professional standards.,

Professions occupy a privileged position in society. Due to the professionals within that professional derive benefits from that society privilege such as higher salaries and elevated status. For this privilige that profession is expected to contribute to society in a meaningful and productive manner.

Most professions with a good reputation have earnt it through integrity and professional ethics, codes of conduct etc. Many professions are only earnt through tertiary and post tertiary education. This education costs the society a great deal of money (even with HECS, your taxes pay for our higher education).

It would be impossible for someone with the mentality that a sex worker has the same status in society as a medical practitioner to understand this and that ethics and standards are important to the fabric of both profession and society.

Oh and BTW sex workers have a role to play in our society, just like journalists do, but both are on a par when it comes to status and reputation.

It's getting a bit old and stale, Joff.

thats becausae you dont have the capacity to even comprehend what it takes to be a professional. Your own blatherings have shown this.

[congorozides]

Fair rant Joffa. I certainly didnt read any of it but it was long. took up half the page. No idea what you are on about. Time to get a hobby or something.

Did I mention that Hutchy was a tosser?

[JeffDunne]

I'm starting to dislike anyone with the surname Howard.

[evertonfc]

Fair rant Joffa. I certainly didnt read any of it but it was long. took up half the page. No idea what you are on about. Time to get a hobby or something.

Can't argue with any of that. Rant is exactly the right word.