When we appointed Lyon, were expectations lowered?

[Beej]

No, they were heightened. After all, that's why you replace a coach, because you think another can do better.

I don't subscribe to the idea that we needed to take a step back to take two steps forward. That's nonsense and is nothing more than an excuse for a bad year.

No doubt that at the end of 2006 following the defeat to Melbourne the board had a look at our list and our achievements over the previous three years and thought "I think we deserve better" and credit to them for not resting on their laurels and accepting a spot in the finals as a job well done. Rightfully so they demanded more and wanted to push on.

They probably thought, "if we can make a couple of prelims with GT in charge, imagine what we could do with a better coach?" and who could blame them with the players we currently have at our disposal. For all its weaknesses, it's the best core of footballers we have assembled since I've been a supporter. Is that a recipe for success? Not always and as we've seen this year, it's not a recipe for finals football either.

For whatever reason, Thomas' position as coach became untenable, he was sacked and we moved for Lyon. Whether or not our board hired Lyon knowing that he would need a transitional season is debateable. In my opinion Butterss thought we had found the best possible candidate to deliver that improvement immediately. The players certainly expected to be involved in September. Twelve months on and thus far it's safe to suggest things haven't panned out as we would have liked and 2007 has been wasted.

Lets just say for arguments sake that it is unfair to judge Ross Lyon after one year, how long can we use the fact that he was previously untried as an excuse? How long before he's allowed to be judged like any other coach? If we get off to a similar start next season the pressure will be piled on Lyon. How he handles it remains to be seen and if we miss out on the finals for a second consecutive year then in my opinion his time is up.

This club has a history of shooting itself in the foot and the last twelve months has been a brief summary of our history.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

short answer...no

we need an asshole coach who is outside st kilda to take us to the next level for a sustained period of time...

we will get there

ross the boss is the man to do it

[JeffDunne]

What we really need to do this offseason is to complete what was promised last year.

There's been a huge shakeup in the coaching ranks and we need to be active to ensure Ross has the best possible off-field setup. If we need to rack up a $1m loss to do it, then bloody well do it.

Ross aint the problem - lack of support is.

[joffaboy]

Ross aint the problem - lack of support is.

Have to agree.

Lost Starchevich before the season, the new bloke from Carlton (cant remember his name) worked hard but our soft tissue injuries still persisted until midway through the season.

The club has to support the footy dept more and fund it with all available resources.

[JeffDunne]

There's a few positions at the club I think we need to review and the fitness staff is just one of them.

Ken Sheldon's one I'd definately look at. I don't have a problem with Kenny but I reckon he's out of his depth.

[Solar]

There's a few positions at the club I think we need to review and the fitness staff is just one of them.

Ken Sheldon's one I'd definately look at. I don't have a problem with Kenny but I reckon he's out of his depth.

would look at sheedy for that spot IMO

[plugger66]

There's a few positions at the club I think we need to review and the fitness staff is just one of them.

Ken Sheldon's one I'd definately look at. I don't have a problem with Kenny but I reckon he's out of his depth.

Please explain what ha has to do with the way we play. He is the footy manager.

[JeffDunne]

There's a few positions at the club I think we need to review and the fitness staff is just one of them.

Ken Sheldon's one I'd definately look at. I don't have a problem with Kenny but I reckon he's out of his depth.

Please explain what ha has to do with the way we play. He is the footy manager.

Where did I say it did?

Having said that, Bakes would have been handy in the West Coast game.

[Oh When the Saints]

How can you expect the same results from a different team?

We have now effectively lost 9 players from the side that won the 2005 Qualifying Final.

9 players.


Now ... can someone please answer me this question.

Is it correct to expect the same result from a team where half the side is different to the one that was a finals contender?


If the board thought that changing a coach would yield better results ... they were deluded.

Deluded.


St Kilda between 2005 and 2007 have undergone a massive transitional phase.

Peckett, Powell, Thompson, Voss, Gehrig, Jones, Penny, Hamill.

All those players were in the top 15 in our B&F in 2004 ... they are all GONE.

GONE.


It takes time for their replacements to mature and reach the same level of performance.


If Ross Lyon is the wrong man for the job at St Kilda, then the whole methodology, the whole appointment process was flawed.

Badly flawed.

For that you can only blame the sub-committee and in turn the board. Not Ross Lyon.

If we get off to a similar start next season the pressure will be piled on Lyon.

What?

4-3 ??


That was a good start ... the same start as 2005/2006.


Or do you mean when we went 0-4 in the next four games, when we have 24-26 players to select from on our list, and played THREE of the top FOUR teams of 2007 ???

[Statsman]

Yep, short term expectations were certainly lowered with the change of coach.

Its unrealistic to expect Ross Lyon to come into the club, make changes to our game plan and have the players make the adjustments and improve immediately. That improvement was always going to take 12-24 months. Couple that with the horror run we had with injuries earlier in the season and it was always going to be tough.

I'd say our result this season was a par score. However we definitely need to improve on that in 2008 if the club's decision to change coaches is to be vindicated.

[bigcarl]

I expected a hell of a lot more.

were were constantly told that gt couldn't coach a pig to be dirty, anyone could coach this list to the finals, he wasn't the man to take us forward etc, etc, etc.

it's way too late now but i have fond memories of the gt era ... they were exciting times and september was a month to look forward to.

i've been disappointed in the game plan and the apparent lack of passion in many matches this year.

we've gone backwards and hawthorn, collingwood, geelong and a few others have sailed right past us

imo lyon gets one more "make-or-break" season.

we're good enough to finish top 4 even without gehrig.

10-point wins against teams like carlton and the tigers aren't what i'd call an improvement

[Oh When the Saints]

were were constantly told that gt couldn't coach a pig to be dirty, anyone could coach this list to the finals, he wasn't the man to take us forward etc, etc, etc.

This is what I don't get.

People believing what they are told.


Everyone's excuse for getting stuck into the board/coach about going backwards is that "we were told ......"

Fair dinkum.


Surely people use their own brain and their own eyes to make a judgement?

Look at what you see yourself, and make up your own mind.


Don't base your expectations in life on what others tell you ... you are bound to enjoy a failed and unhappy existence.

[Beej]

If the board thought that changing a coach would yield better results ... they were deluded.

Deluded.

We finished 8th last season mate. The same result this year would've been a spot in the 8 and an early exit. You think that was too much to ask for?

Ross Lyon would be bitterly disappointed we didn't make the finals, the players would be bitterly disappointed we didn't make the finals, heck, everyone on this board besides you thinks we've underachieved this season. And you somehow think that the board didn't sack the coach to yield better results. FFS.

Can you imagine the uproar if Butterss appointed Lyon and at the press conference said "we don't expect to be in the finals"!? Come on, sunshine. The core of our list are in their mid-20s, we didn't need a transitional season, it was forced upon us.

Of course the board expected a change of coach to yield better results.

Someone who takes a club to three consecutive finals series for only the second time in its history doesn't get jogged on because the board are expecting the following season to be a transitional one. He gets sacked because the club demand more.

How many coaches from memory have been sacked after making the finals?

Our club doesn't know how to handle success - when it's within sight, we panic because we expect that elusive flag to be delivered overnight and when that flag invariably does not come, we pull the gun out and shoot ourselves in the foot. That is the St Kilda FC.

Continuity is what delivers flags. Not a scatter-gun approach to coaches which, if you look back through our history, it's riddled with exactly that.

[Oh When the Saints]

Ross Lyon would be bitterly disappointed we didn't make the finals, the players would be bitterly disappointed we didn't make the finals, heck, everyone on this board besides you thinks we've underachieved this season. And you somehow think that the board didn't sack the coach to yield better results. FFS.

I am bitterly disappointed, but also very optimistic about the future.

Forgive me if I'm not a depressive person ... I tend to move on.


Of course the board didn't sack the coach to yield better results.

The board sacked the coach because he had a personal spat with the President and the key director (Mark Kellet) and because they were influenced by pressure from the AFL.

The board was vindictive, egotistical and purely driven by a corrupted vision of reality.

Look ... they may have thought that St Kilda would be more successful under a new coach.

Who knows?


Plainly it wasn't the motivation for the sacking. Plainly.


Two members of the board and the CEO hated Grant Thomas.


It was a bitter, personal feud in which emotion got in the way of objectivity.

If the St Kilda football club had wanted to enjoy a better season in 2007 than it did in 2006, it would never have sacked Grant Thomas. That is my own personal judgement.

We finished 8th last season mate. The same result this year would've been a spot in the 8 and an early exit. You think that was too much to ask for?

Yep. When you appoint a new coach you are going to go backwards in the short term IMO.

The core of our list are in their mid-20s, we didn't need a transitional season, it was forced upon us.

With Peckett, Powell, Thompson, Voss and Gehrig (starting 22 players) all retiring within 12 months of each other, you don't expect there to be a transitional period?

Things should just hum along nicely without disruption to the side?

Someone who takes a club to three consecutive finals series for only the second time in its history doesn't get jogged on because the board are expecting the following season to be a transitional one. He gets sacked because the club demand more.

No, he doesn't get sacked because the club demands more.

He gets sacked because of a fallout with members of the board and a refusal to accept certain conditions put to him.

He gets sacked because: "Our club doesn't know how to handle success - when it's within sight, we panic because we expect that elusive flag to be delivered overnight and when that flag invariably does not come, we pull the gun out and shoot ourselves in the foot. That is the St Kilda FC."


That's why he gets sacked ...

[rodgerfox]

Look ... they may have thought that St Kilda would be more successful under a new coach...

No, they thought they - the Board, would be successful under a new coach. Their power was being diluted.

The same reason Stan was sacked.

Exactly the same.

[bigcarl]

were were constantly told that gt couldn't coach a pig to be dirty, anyone could coach this list to the finals, he wasn't the man to take us forward etc, etc, etc.

This is what I don't get.

People believing what they are told.

Everyone's excuse for getting stuck into the board/coach about going backwards is that "we were told ......"

i didn't believe it for a second.

i admired what gt had done for st kilda and imo his legacy is very good. i'm on record from the very start as saying i thought his dismissal was a mistake.

... but all the geniuses knew better.

that isn't to say that RL won't make it as a coach.

however it has set the club back at least a year and we will be lucky if what is still a very good list doesn't fall to pieces.

[Beej]

If the St Kilda football club had wanted to enjoy a better season in 2007 than it did in 2006, it would never have sacked Grant Thomas. That is my own personal judgement.

Changed your tune a bit haven't you?

*remembers you registering a new account after Ross Lyon had been appointed so you could save your 2007th post for Grand Final day after we lifted the cup*

DELUDED.

[vacuous space]

My expectations were exactly the same before GT was sacked and after RL was appointed. The expectations around here only lowered when we lost four in a row, and then suddenly all kinds of excuses started coming out. We should have done better this year. We should do better next year.

[gO.SainTs]

When I heard that RL would be appointed as the new Saints coach, I saw that he was assistant coach at Sydney with Paul Roos, who got his side into the Grand Final... Twice. So I thought, hey, we might have a chance here.

I believe what some people say that we are still adapting to the Sydney style of play and the new gameplan.

I have a pretty good feeling for the 2008 season

[The_Dud]

i thought we'd definetly make the finals, most likely top 4

disappointing year

[redwhite&blackblood]

I expected us to finish where we are for 2 years