Dascman's Appraisal of 2007

[dascman]

Let me start by saying that I don't post here very often anymore, due to the ever-decreasing standard of posts, coupled with (or mainly due to) the continued hijacking of threads by the pro/anti-GT factions, but as a proud and passionate Saints supporter, I feel this is still the most appropriate forum to appraise our 2007 season, and where, in my opinion, each player on the list stands as of today. I attended all games in Melbourne this year except today's (watched it in full since), and watched all away games from start to finish. These are my honest opinions, and I would love some feedback from others on the forum.

**CAUTION** VERY LONG POST

Jarryd Allen (36) - Admittedly I didn't see many VFL games this year, barely any actually, so I'm not really in a position to comment on Allen, but hopefully he is a long-term answer either as a KPP or 3rd-tall at either end of the ground. I'm sure others have more rounded opinions on him.

David Armitage (20) - Obviously we all have high hopes from Armo, and I think he was well handled throughout the year. He was unlucky that the 3 games he played were all losses, and coincided with our worst patch of the year. Nonetheless, he showed glimpses of class in the 1's, and better form in the 2's that will hopefully see him play a more extended role in the seniors next year. But let's not expect too much, too early. Give the kid time, and I'm sure he will develop into a very handy and solid midfielder.

Jayden Attard (43) - The surprise packet of the year. Started the year off with a pearler performance on Davey in Round 1, and whilst he tapered towards the end of the season, he really never gave in and always gave 100% for the cause, despite his lack of attacking ability. His ACL injury is most unfortunate, and I would leave him on the Rookie List for next season and see how he comes back from the horrific and unfortunate injury sustained.

Steven Baker (10) - Personally I think he was down on his usual form this year. Since his first suspension for hitting Murphy (which was totally unnecessary), I didn't think he was his usual self. I won't comment on the fact that he'll be out until Round 6 next season, suffice to say the AFL is inherently corrupt. Hopefully he will be in peak fitness by the time he gets back into the side, as he is crucial to our future successes with his tagging (just look at Ling this year).

Luke Ball (14) - Another year cruelled by injury. Possibly the most unfortunate player in the AFL, he never got out of 2nd gear this year, as hard as he tried. He really should've taken the whole 2nd half of the year off this year to get right for next year, but Luke's a proud boy, and hopefully with enough rest and a well-tailored pre-season we can start to see his 2005 AA form sooner, rather than later. Anyone advocating that we trade him...well they obviously don't remember his best form.

Shane Birss (22) - A handy 2nd-tier midfielder. He came into the side and played a few good games, a few ordinary ones, which is to be expected from a good ordinary midfielder. A decent finisher running into goal, he keeps another player honest most of the time and is no worse than the Powells and Thompsons of the past couple of years. Probably not in our very best side but certainly a handy backup player.

Jason Blake (27) - I'll preface my comment on Blake by saying I've never really been a fan of his. This year has been pretty much more of the same. Some decent games, some shockers. We all know he has limited ability and tries his guts out, but sometimes that just isn't enough. I think he'll still be at the club next year, but I'm not sure just how much we would tangibly lose if he weren't. His size is an asset, I suppose, and I believe he will be kept.

Barry Brooks (24) - Looks to be on borrowed time, mainly because he just hasn't delivered on his (admittedly limited) opportunities. If he was really tearing it up in the 2's I'm sure he would've been given more of a run, particularly considering our lack of solid ruckmen. But looks to be gone, I believe he'll be offered for trade, but eventually delisted if/when this fails.

Raphael Clarke (16) - A real enigma. Heart in mouth stuff every time he has the ball in the back-half. He just plays like he's in slow-motion a lot of the tine. Nonetheless, we need to persevere with him, but 2008 promises to be his make-or-break year. It will be year 5 for him, and he really needs to start delivering on his potential. I don't think his future is in the back-half, I think he could even be a tall wingman, but the back-half just isn't his go in my opinion. I'll watch him next year with great interest.

Xavier Clarke (3) - Personally I think he could become an extremely handy player WITH a full, uninterrupted pre-season under his belt. I don't think he's had one for a number of years. As it is I think he's just going through the motions. Doesn't have a role really, and is pretty inconsistent. I think he has a future though, and will probably be a 200-game player for the Saints, but he could certainly be better than he is. I think he'd make a dangerous half forward/forward pocket, if he keeps practising his shooting for goal.

Matthew Clarke (28) - Hopefully his best work was done on the training ground teaching Koschitzke a few tricks in the ruck. His performances for the seniors were mediocre at best, and the ploy by Lyon in drafting him obviously didn't work as well as he'd have liked (I'm sure Robert Walls had something to do with it!). Still, a distinguished career, well done to him for his service to the game. A really likable bloke.

Nick Dal Santo (26) - Probably the most frustrating player at the club. Now we don't know if he's been injured (seriously or not) throughout the year, the fact is, he played 22 games, and probably only half were at all memorable. In my opinion, if Harvey plays on, Dal Santo needs to do EVERYTHING Harvey does in the pre-season, i.e. learn how to gut-run, and thus break a tag. As it is, it's pretty much the same story each week, where the opposition's best tagger goes straight to Dal Santo, and he struggles. We all know how good he looks in full-flight, but that isn't enough when he's getting as much attention as he is. A pass for the season for sure, but he could really be a far superior player with a few more strings to his bow.

Matthew Ferguson (21) - Surely he's on his last chance at the club. He's had 5 years to prove his worth, and he's really only shown fleeting glimpses. He looks a good size, I even think he could (at his fullest potential) be a replacement for Voss (either as the 3rd tall defender or forward). Probably give him 1 more year, make-or-break, and throw him down the gauntlet.

Aaron Fiora (17) - Much-maligned, but Fiora really excelled himself this year. He's played nearly 150 AFL games now, and this was certainly his best year of football. If his conversion was better for goal, he probably would've kicked 25-30 goals this year (he kicked 12.19 for the year), and was unselfish with others, so he really could've been more damaging. Well done to him though, he worked harder this year, and should finish in the top 5-10 in the B&F. A very solid year for Fiora, a player we always knew had talent.

Leigh Fisher (6) - A handy player for us. I think he works best as a small defender. Personally I think he could afford to drop a kg or 2 to gain some pace that he lacks, but other than that, he's handy. His kicking needs work as well, as when he was moved further up the ground this year, some of his passing was quite ordinary. Never gives in though, and with another full pre-season, hopefully his injury-proned last few years are permanently consigned to the past.

Sam Fisher (25) - Chips keeps getting better really. I'm critical of his defensive skills; he has a pretty slow-turning circle and doesn't instinctively take the body of his opponent in marking contests. But on the rebound he's fairly damaging and has been a really great late pickup in the draft. Once he polishes his defensive skills he will be an even better and more rounded player. A good year though.

Michael Gardiner (15) - I really hope he gets himself right and we see him out on the park next year. There really isn't much more to say. We didn't give up a lot to get him, but I'd still like some return on the gamble. Fingers crossed.

Fraser Gehrig (9) - Real pity he isn't going around again next year. Leaves a huge hole in the forward line. He gave us 8 years of great service though, and actually had a pretty good year this year as well overall. Well done Frase, you were a real cult figure down at the club, and you will really be missed. We lose a lot with him out of the team.

Sam Gilbert (19) - He is one to really get excited about. He's answered every challenge this year with flying colours. For someone so young, his enthusiasm is just infectious, I get excited seeing him do something proactive. He knows no other way. I think that further up the ground he could be even more damaging, as I even see him potentially as an Embley-type tall wingman. If he ends up where is though, we have still found a solid, exciting 200-game player for the Saints. Great find.

Brendon Goddard (18) - We really missed him after he went down with his ACL injury. Don't expect much next year either, as he will miss a fair chunk of the upcoming pre-season too. His field kicking is outstanding and well-documented, and the sooner we get him back in the side on top form the better, because he is really a gun, and a future B&F winner and possible captain. A real leader who was sorely missed this season.

Jason Gram (1) - Solid year without being spectacular. He frustrates me as well. I know he's only played about 60 AFL games, but really, he is a bit too inconsistent for mine. His defensive skills are similar to Sam Fisher (good on the rebound, but man-on-man he's quite ordinary because he doesn't take the body). His opponent also can get goal-side far too easily, which is why I think he's better suited to the wing. His kicking also needs work, it's a little erratic at times, but I think with practice that could be ironed out. A good player for us, an important player off half-back, and was probably playing injured in the 2nd half of the year.

James Gwilt (33) - Personally I don't think he will make it. Drafting him was a risk, and since the final in Adelaide 2 years ago he really hasn't done anything to suggest he will be a regular seniors player. He plays like Raph Clarke, i.e. in slow motion, and whilst he has a decent left-foot, I don't think he has much else going for him. If he were out of contract I'd look long and hard at delisting him.

Aaron Hamill (2) - Enough has been said about Aaron. We missed him this year, our list was basically 2 short all year without him and Gardiner. I'm not holding out much hope that he'll play again. Yes, he's determined, but determination doesn't equal fitness unfortunately. Fingers crossed.

Robert Harvey (35) - A living legend. The first half of his season was outstanding, really vintage Harvey. His last few games up until he got injured I thought were quite ordinary by his standards. Maybe he was feeling the pinch of the season. I think he's got one last hurrah left in him, and I really hope that he does play again so he can have a proper FINALS send-off. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll get his premiership that he's craving, and that will be a great tragedy of football.

Lenny Hayes (7) - Given that he didn't have a pre-season this year really, he had a solid season I think. He played his best footy in the last 6 or 8 games, and particularly last week against West Coast we started to see the Lenny of old, with his fierce tackling and penetrating kicks deep inside 50. I'd like to see him kick more goals to hurt his opponent, but he just lacks that bit of pace to zip away from his opponents. Still, a great player who will benefit immeasurably from a full pre-season.

Brad Howard (30) - From my limited exposure to him, I'm not quite sure what his best position is. Still very light on, obviously needs more time and a couple more pre-seasons under his belt before we really know, but for a draft pick as high as 27, he'd want to show something to repay faith.

Max Hudghton (8) - His year was destroyed by injury, and I fear for his future. These soft-tissue injuries can really take hold of a player of his age (particularly given his history), but I hope he can go around again because our back-line fades badly without his experienced presence and leadership. I've always been a fan, and hopefully he can bounce back after a disappointing 2007.

Clinton Jones (38) - To me, he didn't show enough in the seniors to warrant retention on the senior list. Seems to know how to find the ball (maybe its the hair), but really he looks like he'd be more at home at Bondi than at a footy club! Seriously though, I'd rookie him again next year, and with a good pre-season, and with quality on-ballers around him, hopefully he can take another step forward next year, in what will be his make-or-break year.

Justin Koschitzke (23) - I was absolutely rapt to see him get through the whole year without a serious injury. Hopefully this is a turning point in his career. He has never had this sort of continuity really since 2001, and hopefully he will launch himself into the pre-season at full steam. This season he was solid, I thought. Didn't really tear it up that often, and in the most memorable of his games (West Coast in Perth), he didn't see 2nd half action, which pretty much sums up his career so far. Huge upside though, and given the faith and patience we've shown in him through his injury-riddled career, if he were to leave that would be one of the worst stabs-in-the-back that you'll ever see. Expect an announcement pertaining to re-signing shortly.

Matt Maguire (31) - Ordinary year. Never really got going, but again, he didn't have a pre-season. The fact he got out on the park this year was a credit to his hard work and dedication. He will benefit from a full pre-season, and will hopefully be the Maguire of old next season. Probably our most important player structurally after Riewoldt.

Andrew McQualter (32) - Appears to be John Beveridge's biggest draft blunder of the past few years. I just don't know what his future holds. Has to be trade bait after only seeing very limited (and very ordinary) senior football this year, which is a pity, because he has a dip, but just seems to lack the skill to succeed at this level. His only hope I think would be to turn into a real in-and-under type player feeding the ball out. To do this however, he would have to work extremely hard on his fitness and earn his spot (Jobe Watson did it, Cross did it), and I think that is McQualter's last hope at our club (that's if he survives delisting/trading this year).

Steven Milne (44) - Decent year. More of the same from Milne. I'm not a big fan of his, some of his decision making is mind-boggling at best. Needs to stay at home I think. He will sorely miss Gehrig I think; he kicked a lot of goals roving off Gehrig's dropped marks or spillages. Wouldn't be the worst move in the world if he were moved on or delisted, but I think he'll be there next year. His defensive skills need serious work though, possibly the worst tackler in the AFL.

Leigh Montagna (11) - Showed a marked improvement this year. Took the next step in his development as a solid midfielder. Lacked consistency, and will need to learn to cope with the extra attention he is sure to start getting (if it hasn't already). One of the success stories this year for sure though was Joey's form. Hopefully he can take another big leap forward next year and really become elite. Heaven knows we need pace and his quality through the midfield if we are to improve as a football club.

Phil Raymond (34) - Must be gone. I haven't seen any of him, but after 3 years, none of us have in the seniors. Back in the SANFL next year I'm sure.

Nick Riewoldt (12) - Our probable B&F (again). Another solid year from Riewoldt. His kicking woes are well-documented and I'm sure he will spend a lot of time over the summer working on this aspect of his game. I think he gets a pretty good run from the umpires, but that comes from his hard work and earning the front position in his marking contests. I'd like to see him stay closer to goal more often. Remember he kicked 67.32 in 2004 and 60.35 in 2006. This year he kicked 42.26. His accuracy wasn't diabolical, but 70 shots on goal isn't enough. He needs to be edging closer to 90-100 shots at goal for us to really be a formidable outfit. Still, a solid year for Riewoldt.

Michael Rix (29) - Never been a fan of his. He is VFL standard, and he is really found wanting in the AFL. In a perfect world he would be delisted, but given that our ruck stocks are far from perfect, especially with Clarke retiring, I think he will survive another year. He battles, nothing more. Will never make it in the AFL.

Justin Sweeney (37) - Attitude problems of the past have been well-known on the forum. If these are still present, delist him. He's kicked quite a few goals for Casey for a number of years, but we are still yet to see him have a decent run in the seniors despite our injury woes over the past couple of years. There must be a reason for this, which I am not privy to. I want to see him succeed, you can never have enough dangerous forwards. But if he is at the club next season, then surely it is make or break.


Andrew Thompson (4) - A great servant for the club. I'm really glad he was given a proper send-off today. He deserves it. He has served the club fantastically well with what could probably be described as 'limited ability'. Captained the club on occasion and really toiled manfully in an often ordinary side. Another one who probably deserved a premiership for sheer hard work, but it wasn't to be. Thanks for the memories, Thommo. A great bloke too who deserves the best of luck in his retirement.

Brett Voss (13) - A finished footballer for me. I think the game has passed him by unfortunately. He has lost his pace, and his courage alone isn't enough to cut it in the modern game. At the start of the year I thought he could maybe play the 3rd-tall role consistently in Hamill's absence, but it hasn't quite worked. I would delist him if he's off contract, but he has been a fantastic servant for the club as well, who deserves a proper send-off in a perfect world.

Fergus Watts (5) - A lot of people consider him the long-term answer as a key forward, particularly with Fraser gone, but I'm not so sure. I hope we get decent return given that we sacrificed a first-round pick to get him, but I'm not so sure if we will. Next year looms as a big one for him. Last year was ruined by injury admittedly, but this year I'm not sure just how much he showed in the 2's. I hope he makes it, and am prepared to give him more time to do so.

Rookies - Geary, Eddy, Van Rheenan, Wall - I don't know enough about any of them to comment really, suffice to say that the benefit of being able to have 5 rookies compared with the 1 or 2 in the past is immeasurable. 2 were promoted, and from all reports the 4 others all showed varying degrees of talent as well. We are overdue to have some success through the rookie draft.

What We Need

1) A top-line ruckman

This is well-documented. Everybody knows it, so I won't expand.

Who I Want To Get:
Jamie Charman (Bris) - Which club doesn't?
Darren Jolly (Syd) - Rumour has it he wants to return to Victoria. I'd go all out to get him if this were the case. He isn't a gun, but boy would be be handy.

Who Is More Realistic:
Cameron Wood (Bris) - With Leuenberger looking the goods and Charman probably staying, not sure what his Brisbane future holds. Has shown obvious talent and has seen senior footy. Would be a valuable acquisition.
John Meesen (Adel) - Crows supporters have been crying out for him to see more senior action, but an apparent fallout with Neil Craig coupled with a desire to return to Victoria has seen this curtailed. Probably the most realistic target, my Geelong-supporting mate reckons he's a gun, and having not seen enough of him I can't really comment. Nonetheless, he was a high draft pick and must warrant a decent look.

2) Pace through the midfield

This is also well-documented. We are found wanting against the best sides in this aspect. We need pacey midfielders. Again though, every club does, and only the very best sides have much of it. Nonetheless, we would be well served to either find it through the draft, or through trading.

Who I Want To Get:
Brett Peake (Frem) - Whilst he is from WA, he may have fallen out of favour, particularly given his ill-discipline over the past week. A long-shot, but he has genuine pace and is a good finisher and is worth a good look.

Justin Sherman (Bris) - Stagnated this year. Seems to maybe have lost his spot. Worth a look because I think he is very much a confidence player. Maybe needs a new start...or maybe he will be better next year with the Lions given some continuity.

Chris Judd (WCE) - Thought I'd throw him in. I think he'd be fairly handy.

3) A 3rd tall/medium forward

Well with Fraser gone maybe we need a 2nd tall forward now...I'm suggesting more that we need to take the pressure off Riewoldt and Koschitzke by putting a 3rd tall down there to play a role, kick some goals, and keep a defender honest. Very few teams have 3 quality tall defenders, and this is one area where we could exploit teams with an extra forward.

Who I Want To Get:
Ryan O'Keefe (Syd) - He'd be perfect. The exact prototype I'm suggesting. But this is wishful thinking and won't happen.

Who Is More Realistic:
Ryan Murphy (Frem) - Struggled this year and apparently wants a move back to Victoria. Struggled for form and consistency this year, and seems to have lost his place to Adam Campbell and to some extent Tarrant in the Freo forward line. Victorian clubs will be circling, and he is a beautiful kick and still quite young. Worth a look.

Obviously we cannot fill all of these positions through trades, but these are just some ideas for improving our list.

Coaching

I'll preface the following remarks pertaining to coaching by saying that overall, I think coaching is wildly overrated in football. Players escape a lot of criticism because coaches are often the first scapegoat. For me, a coach's most important role in this day and age is to motivate. Football has become 'over-coached' in my opinion, and as a result the game is suffering for it. Nonetheless, this is my opinion.

John Barker (Forward Line Coach) - I don't know where we got him from, but our forward-line certainly didn't function with the same fluency and consistency as in past years often enough this year to vindicate his position. Should be moved on.

Anthony Rock (Midfield Coach) - I think our midfield would get a pass mark this year overall. I don't know what Rock brought to the position, but the improvement of Montagna and Fiora were definite positives. A pre-season into Hayes and Ball will also improve it immeasurably. Came with good credentials, and I'm sure he will be around next year.

Stephen Silvagni (Back Line Coach) - Also came with good credentials, our back line was fairly good this year under obvious duress for much of the time. Having Gwilt as our no. 1 tall back was never going to win games, and SOS had to construct a patchwork defence for much of the first half of the year. He needs to take Fisher and Gram aside and teach them the fundamentals of body-on-body defending IMO, and this will just make the unit even stronger. A fully-fit Maguire would make it a formidable outfit.

Ross Lyon (Head Coach) - I was never expecting much from the side this year to be brutally honest. I expected to make the 8, no doubt, and the fact that we haven't is bitterly disappointing. Some of the results (see Collingwood, North Melbourne, Essendon and Bulldogs games) were just deplorable, and Lyon probably should bear the brunt of some of that. But by-and-large, I think the playing group is equally to blame. As a unit they are not as mentally tough as they should be, and Lyon needs to instill this in them over the summer. A first year for any head coach is always difficult, and next year I'm sure will be much better for him, the players, and hopefully, the long-suffering St Kilda supporters.

Fortius Quo Fidelius.

[SaintBot]

interesting suggestion in Ryan Murphy...if it is true that he wants to come to Vic then i would hope the club would straight away look at off-loading a third/fourth rounder for him

wouldnt give anything more though as we still have Watts who could come good

[woooosaints]

great analysis man

[evertonfc]

If there's a chance Ryan Murphy will be traded, we should be all over him.

I'm a massive fan of his. Heaps of potential.

[saintsRrising]

Good thoughtful post...one after my own heart

I would agree with much of it...but would note:

*Roo I think was a fair bit better than solid....asa key forward I thought he stepped up this year. He seems more cpable of taking statonary contested marks and was using his body well. The main feature I would like him to addis kicking goals on the run....as he seems to avoid this and chips the ball off.....often to poor options when he should be slotting them through. Through footy history this is what the best of the best CHFs do...and which Roo needs to do alot more of.


* Sam Fisher. With his delivery of the ball into the forward line in the second half of the year I was very disappointed. He gained lots of footbal....had down all the hard work in running it down....but his last passwas often wayward.


*Ross. The second half of the year the players started to deliver the game plan that Roos wants. The players can now put the brakes on oponents and resume kicking ok scores. However our problem of not being able to deliver 4 quarters efforsts often enough post-streak reamains.....and getting the saints to play 4 quarters more consistently remains RL's biggest challenge.


TRADES.... you lost me here though. Perhaps ???? you did not really intend the Saints to be going after so many players.....and instead put upa wishlist of who you would like. So many trades would be destructive...

this will be RL's first proper trade period....and aftera season he will be clearer in his mind who he wants.

I would not favour a lot of trades...as I think in in general you lose on trades.

We need to develop our own......we need more mids and so RL is going to have to work hard to develop some mids from Mini, Armo, Geary or Howard..........and to get Fiora, Birrs and X to all improve that little bit more. hopefully ball's operation proves to bea success.

Some lateral thinking is perhaps required....and so perhaps some mid time for Gilbert and Gram....

BJ will be back...but aftera kneee in 2008 I would mainly like to see him used ona flank or wing.

Any kids we are likely to draft at pick 8/9 are not likely to feature much in 2008.


W& L Matthews LOVES having two big ruckmen in his team. ...and even though Charman is only 25...I cannot see Matthews letting either W or L go anytime soon.




Now lastly on Gilbert.....eventually I think he will settle into being our FB. This is in part because aprt from Max we do not seem to have anyone else that has the initial pace required to play on fast leading FFs. Maguire and sam Fisher are too slow. allen I have not seen enough of to comment. So i think once he has some beef that he may take over from Max.

[Dan Warna]

very interesting post.

I think your assessment of the coaching is fair.

disagree on a few of the player posts.

ball in particular doesn't get enough credit IMO. he did have his brain sundered by whelan and showed enormous courage.

I think against carlton we just bludgeoned them with raw talent and same with richmond both times, wins, but not as we should have done.

we seem to lack team cohesion and play as a collection of individuals rather than a team.

lenny, voss, dal, max, baker, ball are some of the exceptions, they do the unreported stuff, the blocks, shepherds, etc.

[Dan Warna]

with the exception of the games after his head injury and the game when he played after the corky (last week) ball has been consistently good for us.

Judd has had a stellar career, however with him struggling with OP he may never be the player he was.

[nicko016]

Really good and detailed post. I think you're pretty spot on with what we need.

Definately need a topline ruckmen unless Gardiner magically comes good. With Gehrig going we need Kosi forward so he can kick 50+ goals and with no ruckmen he'll have to play their and our forward line will struggle.

We also need some pace through the midfield. Sherman and Peake would be perfect players to target as their value may have gone done since they have seemed to have sort of struggled after initially bursting on the scene. What they've got more compared to some of our quicker players is the real ability to take the game on to a point where they may even get themselves in trouble. Another player we could try and target, without knowing what his contract situation is, is Brent Prismall. He's not quick but has footy smarts and the ability to think quicker than others. Started off the year well but got dropped after only one bad game and hasn't had a look in since. Ideally, though we need two midfielders. A quick outside midfielder and a reliable, consistent, tough midfielder like Cross or Corey. Occasionaly we struggle around the stoppages when we suddenyl seem to go mising in terms of the hard ball. However, these players generally have to be developed from your own team. We're still lacking some depth in the midfield and could do with both an inside and an outside midfielder. Or, alternatively it would be great to have a player both capable of being an inside mid winning clearences but still quick and hard-running like a Foley. But there's not too many off them around. I always thought Brent Moloney was a bit like this but there are injury clouds over him. Nut that type of player could help out a lot.

But for us to be a contendor next year and do what Geelong has done this year after where they were last year we are going to need all our capable players to finally deliver. For me, for us to be top two we're going to need Reiwodlt and Dal Santo to really step up and become top-5 players in the comp like Ablett has done this year. At least, Geelong have shown it can be turned around so that is what we have to aim to do and if players like the Clarkes, Fiora finally realise their potential we could get there. However, at the moment unless we had drastic improvement a good solid year would see us about 5-7 but an oustanding season could see us 1-2 if some players make big improvements to the maximum of their potential.

[Dan Warna]

sherman is struggling in 07 with form, perhaps he is/was a one hit wonder...was dropped recently. dont think he is particular fast though.

Gram has been used as a virtual tagging defender it was good to see him make a couple of runs today after a quite defencive season by and large.

for pace we have gram, fiora and x.clarke, thats not a bad trio to build on.

fiora's kicking for goal today ><

[plugger66]

sherman is struggling in 07 with form, perhaps he is/was a one hit wonder...was dropped recently. dont think he is particular fast though.

Gram has been used as a virtual tagging defender it was good to see him make a couple of runs today after a quite defencive season by and large.

for pace we have gram, fiora and x.clarke, thats not a bad trio to build on.

fiora's kicking for goal today ><

I must be missing something but if X is fast so is Mark Jackson.

[markinUSA]

That was an absolutely brilliant analysis of our list. Thank you for all the time and thought you put into it. I really appreciated it.

I thought to myself- I wish I knew as much about football as you do!

Cheers
Mark

[Stephen Theodore]

Was a great post. Obviously had a lot of time put into it. Extremely interesting reading.

[StSteven]

That was an absolutely brilliant analysis of our list. Thank you for all the time and thought you put into it. I really appreciated it.

I thought to myself- I wish I knew as much about football as you do!

Cheers
Mark

Totally agree....thanks.

What is depressing is the number of "ifs" related to injury. Can we afford to go into 2008 with only "hope" but no "evidence" around Gardiner and Hammil. Two places filled by players that have contributed zero to St K FC in 2007.

[Statsman]

Thanks for a magnificent analysis Dascman. That's one of the best posts this season. With form like that, it's a shame you don't post more often these days.

[carn_sainter]

Good Original Post, to which i'll just add a few players off the top of my head: (Raph, X, CJ, Brooks, Goose, Ball)


Raph Clarke is a really and truly good footballer.

Anyone who has bagged him (given his injury history, fitness and the role he was thrust into) is an idiot...plain and simple should not be acknowledged when they talk about football.

He is right up there with Kosi and Roo as having the best eyes for the ball in flight at the club. He is a step ahead when spoiling the ball and knows exactly where it is going. He is very long and rangy, so he can get to most balls in the air.

His hands need some strength for sticking grabs and his disposal will lift with experience, confidence and continuity.

But he is a natural footballer.
______________________________

X Clarke is polished disposal away from being a hyper-damaging footballer. His nous for a crumb is as god as Raph's for a spoil. He always gets front and centre right to where the ball drops, better than Milne. He is quick enough (but loses his feet too often) and has a nice grab and good tackle, all he needs now is to nail his kicking down and he will be a gun around the forward half of the ground.
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Clint Jones is a dud. I persist with players a bit, i still think Brooks has something to give thanks to his ability as a forward, but Clint Jones is going nowhere. He can't be conditioned any further, his skills are set in stone, he can only nail an easy chase down tackle...i just think he is the apotheosis of speed not skill getting a game.
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Brooks can be a good leading forward. He can be a Forward/Ruckman while Kosi plays as a Ruck/Forward if Gardiner doesn't get up (If Gardiner does, Kosi plays much more forward and Brooks is struggling for a game). He has great hands, is good on a lead and in a pack, brings the ball to ground, has lovely disposal...

Query on ground level skills and also tackling and his confidence problems may be terminal but, Fraser was never a gun at ground level or tackling either...

I really hope we persist with Brooks as a forward; he has more potential than Watts.
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Maguire is a real concern for me. I know he has had some tough circumstances but i really thought he was a genunie shadow of his former self...My hope is a full pre-season will sort him out, but then again i thought he would have made more improvement in a good solid couple of months of footy than he did...

This is absurd but i'm almost concerned the game has passed him by...he was mentally slow, lost at times, giving away too many frees and really unaware...

Positive is his disposal improved. He said last week he has no excuses and is fully right...so now a full pre-season is needed...Physically he can be fine, but mentally i have some concerns about Goose...
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Ball is the player i am most excited about...as Ross Lyon said, his smarts and tackling are 2nd to none...get his conditioning right, and we have an elite player on our hands...maybe not truly elite, but a real gun all the same...would make a huge difference to us.

[Oh When the Saints]

All posts from trolls have been removed.


Great post dasman.

Terrific and honest summation of the list, and pretty accurate with much of the analysis.

I am probably not as harsh on RL as you are, but your view is the majority one, and you have supported well ...

[dascman]

Good thoughtful post...one after my own heart

TRADES.... you lost me here though. Perhaps ???? you did not really intend the Saints to be going after so many players.....and instead put upa wishlist of who you would like. So many trades would be destructive...

this will be RL's first proper trade period....and aftera season he will be clearer in his mind who he wants.

I would not favour a lot of trades...as I think in in general you lose on trades.

We need to develop our own......we need more mids and so RL is going to have to work hard to develop some mids from Mini, Armo, Geary or Howard..........and to get Fiora, Birrs and X to all improve that little bit more. hopefully ball's operation proves to bea success.

Some lateral thinking is perhaps required....and so perhaps some mid time for Gilbert and Gram....

BJ will be back...but aftera kneee in 2008 I would mainly like to see him used ona flank or wing.

Any kids we are likely to draft at pick 8/9 are not likely to feature much in 2008.


W& L Matthews LOVES having two big ruckmen in his team. ...and even though Charman is only 25...I cannot see Matthews letting either W or L go anytime soon.

Thanks for the first comment mate. Trust me you're one of the few who I also enjoy reading, certainly one with a particularly reasoned argument.

And just on trades, I was never trying to suggest that we should trade for all 3. It was more of a team-needs type thing, and the sort of prototype player I was suggesting. Obviously it's unrealistic to trade for all of those players, and it probably would prove detrimental if we did. I was merely exemplifying the sort of players I think we require. It is all the more rewarding if we meet these needs through the draft with a promising 18-year old potential 15 year player anyway.

[Carl Mynott]

A very good analysis that made for a very good read.

[dascman]

Thanks for a magnificent analysis Dascman. That's one of the best posts this season. With form like that, it's a shame you don't post more often these days.

Cheers Statsman! Again, you are another poster I enjoy reading, and I really would love to post here more often. But with thread after thread being hijacked by factionalism, agendas and just plain idiocy from a small minority, I just don't give the time or the effort to wade into that sort of crap. I'm pleased that the feedback has been positive though!

[Saintgaz]

Yeah, great analysis.
Raph reminds me a bit of Mark Waugh. He has exquisite skills and flows beautifully. When he runs it never looks like he's exerting himself but he get s around nicely. Definitely reads the play well and has a good nous.
If he's fit and learns to kick straight I wonder if he could play FF (with a bit more bulk)?

Brett Peake is quick and has great endurance, but his disposal is very ordinary. He doesn't have a lot of penetration in his kicking so that's what I'd worry about.

[Sam23]

If there's a chance Ryan Murphy will be traded, we should be all over him.

I'm a massive fan of his. Heaps of potential.

Was lucky to get a game this week for Fremantle, was a late change in and they had 7 players dropped for disciplinary reasons.


NO THANKYOU, another slow, good hands, good leap player who will cost a high DP, so similar to Watts

[SaintBot]

If there's a chance Ryan Murphy will be traded, we should be all over him.

I'm a massive fan of his. Heaps of potential.

Was lucky to get a game this week for Fremantle, was a late change in and they had 7 players dropped for disciplinary reasons.


NO THANKYOU, another slow, good hands, good leap player who will cost a high DP, so similar to Watts

unlike watts however, murphy has showed very promising signs in the AFL

last year he kicked 5 goals against carlton and 4 against essendon

again id rather not give away to much for him as Watts could turn out just fine with some afl experience but if we just let him slip our sights i wouldnt be happy

[awesome_days]

Good OP

For me the following things this year:

Highlights
1) Harvey's 350 & win v WCE
2) Win v Swans at TD
3) J Kosi - playing so many games this year

Lowlights
1) Stevie Baker fiasco
2) Shame game v Hawthorn (not the actual game, having 23 fit(eligible) players with Baker suspended for a brain fade. Poor injury management for a club to be that injury riddled)
3) Lack of 4-quarter efforts

Most improved
1) Gilbert - enough has been said about him already
2) Montagna - gone from fringe player to consistent 1st choice midfielder
3) Fiora - if his kicking was straight he could nearly have been AA & top 3 best & fairest

Our list/team next year
Trade if possible/Delistings/Retirements
Thompson (r)
Gherig (r)
M Clarke (r)
Raymond - 2/3 years without a look-in. Only player not playing shame game
Ferguson - did not look like a player in his two games this year
Voss - good player for us, game has passed him
Jones - got the ball & can not use it. Was no improvement in disposal from start of season to the end.
Wall - 3 years on AFL lists & doesnt seem to be strong support for him (I have never seen him play)

Look to trade - but keep if no suitable one found
Blake
Gwilt
Milne
Brooks
Rix
Watts

Promote from Rookies (based on match reports etc, haven't seen play
Geary - made an emergency for a reason
Eddy - reports seem to suggest he will be a good player

Our Team
B: Baker Hughton S Fisher
HB: Gilbert Maguire R Clarke
C: Gram Montagna Fiora
HF: X Clarke Koschitzke Riewoldt
FF: Goddard Brooks Ball
Foll: Gardiner Haves Dal Santo
Int: Harvey L Fisher Armitage Hamill

[evertonfc]

Right, I've had the chance to have a really good look at that original post.

I tell ya, I'm struggling to find points I disagree. An excellent, accurate and unbiased post if ever there was one.

As far as concise, one-paragraph appraisals go, that was as good as it gets.

Can I just point out this board has been given a massive injection of sanity in the past 24 hours by the return of statsman and dascman - not that they ever totally went away

Stick around guys - your thought provoking threads are lifting the Football Intelligence Quota (FIQ ) of this board infinitely.

Keep up the good work. Really looking to your posts as we get towards trade week when it becomes clear which players are available and which players of ours could be on their way out.

[The_Dud]

good post, but your bias against Milne clearly showed

our 3rd highest goal kicker for the year, and from what i can recall without reviewing the game, we scored 3 goals directly from passes from Milne, and 2 DIRECTLY from tackles from him

since people won't be able to bag Gehrig out everytime we lose next year, as they did this year, i'm afraid milnes gonna cop an absolutely (mostly unwarrented) hiding next year