My chat with Greg Westaway today

[rodgerfox]

Footy is all about messiahs and heroes. Eddie is the Collingwood messiah - saved them from ruin, made them a power again. (just can't win a flag!!)
Carlton have latched onto another messiah in Pratt!! He will save them so they hope!! Matthews has been the messiah at Brisbane - before him they were nothing.

Roos at Sydney has delivered the chocolates - before him Plugger was the man.

Point is - so what. There has to be someone to follow who will lead us to the promised land. Butterss almost did it - but then has lost the plot in the last 12-18 months. Without someone putting their hand up and saying I can do this - what do you get? nothing.. Nothing will change. Having said that - I don't believe Westaway is the media player type. He is more the football captain type - come on boys, roll the sleeves up and let's get on with it. I'm here - I am in charge, but others can do the media. He is connected and respected in business. He does have top end of town contacts like all the presidents do - so what? he is a bit media shy!! Burke is better on TV than he is - so what. Is he a messiah - maybe, maybe not. I don't care - he is just offering to do what RB and co. are not doing at present. Run our club with an eye on success BOTH on and off field. If RB can come out and tell how things will get better / what he will do differently that will make a difference - then let's hear from him SOON. At present - the only ppl making all the right noises is Westaway and Burke.

Spot on.

The human race has depended on messiahs since religion began.

Yet our own supporters heap shiit on our club about being 'the' club with a messiah complex.

It's ridiculous.

The media publish it, and they lap it up.

Expect it from opposition supporters, but not our own.

[rodgerfox]

Looking forward the flag in 2008 which Westaway and his boys will apparently deliver, as we can't wait for RB and his boys to do it any longer. I am to presume that the new leadership, once they get in, will deliver star players to RL to fix all deficiencies in the team -they will also miraculously find a cure for long-term and chronically injured injured players. With our new list fully 100% fit, then the flag is ours. I think there is a serious case of rose-coloured glasses going on with some. Don't be sucked in by bells and whistles -if you want these new guys in, demand of them a premiership as members..write to Westaway and his crew and lay it on the line exatly what you as members want..I fear he will be selling you the Sydney Harbour Bridge next.

Speaking for myself here, I don't believe this is what this challenge is about.

The club, under the current Board, is masking some serious cracks. Serious, serious cracks.

This isn't about taking the next step that the current Board aren't capable of - it's about acting now on issues within the club that could bring it to it's knees if not addressed.

[saint66au]

Greg Westaway is NOT the Messiah....



















He's just a very naughty boy

(cant believe its taken this long for someone to do this gag!!)

[JeffDunne]

Some good points in this thread even if it reads a bit like a Monty Python script.

IMO, where St Kilda is different to other clubs is not the 'messiah complex' (as others have highlighted that happens at most clubs), but that many supporters choose to follow individuals rather than the club. The debates around this board challenge providing more evidence of that.

I am staggered at the lack of criticism the incumbents have received over their plan to allow the AFL decide who should be running the club. I can't think of another membership based club that would tolerate that from their leadership.

[GrumpyOne]

Greg Westaway is NOT the Messiah....

He's just a very naughty boy

(cant believe its taken this long for someone to do this gag!!)

Sorry 66, I've already done that, and I don't think I was the first either.

But my good mate the evil mod probably deleted or moved it, so you're OK.

[spert]

These are cracks the challengers are coming up with.. its all to do with RB and his occasionally abrasive and erratic personality which is annoying some in the background. Westaway and his crew have no plan, just a lot of generic talk .. In reality, with a bit of good recruiting/ trading and a good pre-season, our club is every chance of being back in the finals in 2008, as many were realising at season's end before all this stuff came along.

[saint patrick]

Some good points in this thread even if it reads a bit like Monty Python script.

IMO, where St Kilda is different to other clubs is not the 'messiah complex' (as others have highlighted that happens at most clubs), but that many supporters choose to follow individuals rather than the club. The debates around this board challenge providing more evidence of that.

I am staggered at the lack of criticism the incumbents have received over their plan to allow the AFL decide who should be running the club. I can't think of another membership based club that would tolerate that from their leadership.

Couldn't agree more JD...Butterss attempt to derail the challenge by refering it to his mate Andrew at the AFL at the expense of the members is as you say unprecedented and was the final nail in this boards coffin

If that is not the act of a desperate ,dictator who can see the writing on the wall I don't know what is

Westaway reponded to it as he should have by calling it a joke..

That 2 very capable current board members have defected and see the current board as unworkable says a lot about why this board challenge is required..

And despite the fact that some here see Thompson and Burkes roles as mindless stool pigeons I regard their presence as giving added weight that there are problems at the club that will not be solved under the
current administration under RB

Roll on EGM

[Shaggy]

No-one thinks Westway is a Messiah but the majority of us also don't think we need a detailed business plan in front of us to form a view that he is a better option than RB.

We have been close to premiership favorites last 2 years, great TV exposure this year and yet still bottom of the revenue pile. Go figure ... some would call it incompetence ... middle management problems ... GT/RL/other names problems ... or Board problems?

5,000 of us are saying its the Board. Some can wait for the business plan before making their minds up but they should not pretend we are the ones who are naive.

[GrumpyOne]

Speaking for myself here, I don't believe this is what this challenge is about.

The club, under the current Board, is masking some serious cracks. Serious, serious cracks.

This isn't about taking the next step that the current Board aren't capable of - it's about acting now on issues within the club that could bring it to it's knees if not addressed.

Rodger...... Maaate!

In my 18mths on the forum, that is the best post you have ever made.

Deserves entry to the SS Mensa fraternity.

Seriously.

[JeffDunne]

TBH, I don't think people are voting for the challengers, I think they are voting against the incumbents.

Rarely do people 'win' office. It's incumbents that lose it (there's ample evidence in state and federal elections to back up that theory).

Rod and his supporters IMO know that and are doing everything possible to make sure people don't get the chance. They aren't lobbying for votes and I'm sure are spending many long hours trying to deny people their say.

Rod's first salvo in this process was to try and link the viability of the club to him being in office (many of his supporters are still pushing that line). His next was to try and get the AFL to act as arbitrators. That failed too. I have no doubt his next move will be to challenge the legality of the challenge.

People can question the financial management abilities of the challengers all they like, but we now have a situation where if members are denied their vote the financial cost to the club could be massive.

[saintsRrising]

I think that in part you are right JD....that members are reacting against the current Board.....or at least it has made them open to other offers....it has made them willing to listen.



But my assessment is that they are voting FOR NB and AT...

My GUESS is that if NB and AT were not involved then FF would have dramtaically less proxies than the 5000 that they currently have.



Why else would so many give their proxies toa President that most know virtually nothing about so quickly???

[JeffDunne]

I believe simply because so many are disenchanted by what has happened over the past 12-18 months.

People are voting for the challengers because they trust them more than the incumbents. No doubt AT & NB help in winning that trust, but I doubt that would be enough if people were happy with the performance of the incumbents. Actually, I'm sure it wouldn't. People usually don't vote for change for the sake of change. They need to become disillusioned first. When they do any half credible alternative will suffice. Just ask Jeff Kennett and Steve 'who' Bracks.

[joffaboy]

People can question the financial management abilities of the challengers all they like, but we now have a situation where if members are denied their vote the financial cost to the club could be massive.

How will this occur?

Sorry have I missed something here? I recall RB saying that the incumbants and FFS should put their detailed financial plans into the AFl for consideration and if the FFS was better they would walk away.

I took that as an extention to his presser when he said it was incumbant on the board to look at all new plans and if it was in the boards view superior to their own, they were duty bound to recommend it to to the members as the best alternative.

He then went one further an asked the AFL to independantly look at both plans and said that if the FFs was better he would walk away wheich meant there would be no EGM and the FFs would take over.

Of course the por messiah Westaway storm trooper came on here and shouted down any suggestion with their tirade of abuse toward Butters and the AFL, claiming of course, that RB was in the AFl pocket and it would not be independant (of course no proof, but the usual pro - Westaway gutter tactics by his supporters, which we are getting all too familiar with after less than a week).

If Butters specifically stated that he wanted to deny the members a vote, well that is against the constitution and I join everyone in roundly condemning Butters and ask why he hasn't been charged for breach of Directors Duties either under common law or Corporations Act?

Is this so? Can somebody point me to the quote where Butters wanted to override the consitution of the club?

If not whats with this BS spin? Is it because Westaway and his ticket have something to hide and wont present his financial plans?

Every time I ask this question i get shouted down by the members of the Westaway stormtroopers, or personally insulted by the forums no.1 bully.

I really am getting tired of the slurs and mistruths going on ATM.

So I am asking, imploring the tutt tutters on here to show me where the President blatantly wanted to breach the constitution - and also give me the source and quote.

I will join you all with condemnation of Butters and ask for his immediate resignation if the oft repeated allegations are substantiated and corroborated.

if not well...............

[Dis Believer]

I have not posted on the board topic until now. Now I simply cannot refrain any longer. I cannot believe the passion and abuse that have come out of all of this debate. After 3 decades as a loyal Sainter, i feel i am only now starting to understand the nature of the club.

Why are people so devout in their support of this guy or that guy? Why are they so derisive of those whose opinions differ from their own? Let's not forget people - this is a footy club, not a political party. It's about winning premierships and being successful on and off the field.

For those who are supporting RB - I say this, 7 or 8 years with one of the best lists in our history, and we still haven't made the last day in September. Yes we have improved under the incumbents, and I was very supportive of RB, GT and BW in early days, but $1m profits are not as good in the trophy cabinet as the major silverware. A football club is not a profit organisation - profits are only useful as a tool to improve the club onfield.

For those who care to know I will be supporting FF and sending my proxy in this week.

I don't need to see a detailed financial plan, what I need to see is an alternative that I feel has the skills, credentials and ambition to make improvements. I need to see that they share my vision of the future and understand what needs to be done to create that improvement.

I believe that RB is a lot like GT in that he was the right man for the right time, but that time has now passed. It was all about the club up until about 18 months ago, but it appears to be all about keeping the job now.

There are several deal-breakers for mine - the public spat with GT, sacking a succesful coach for personal reasons, the injury problem failing to be addressed and most recently the approach to Handy Andy to take the vote away from the members.

For all the drama queens, this is not an implosion or further proof of our mediocrity. This is the standard mechanism of change for an AFL club, and I see it as our collective rejection of the acceptance of mediocrity - in the past the cult of celebrity, or "Messiah" as some have taken to calling it, would have seen us clinging to the chosen one all the way down the drain, declaring undying loyalty. Now we have set our sights higher, and when we see that a servant of the club has gone as far as they can and begun to stagnate, we demand that they step aside and make way for those that can take us to the next level.

Much as GT was seen as a victim of the very culture change he sought to instigate, I believe RB is going down the very same path. Both should be proud of what they have acheived - their success has put them out of a job (albeit unpaid in RB's case).

[saint66au]

I believe simply because so many are disenchanted by what has happened over the past 12-18 months.

People are voting for the challengers because they trust them more than the incumbents. No doubt AT & NB help in winning that trust, but I doubt that would be enough if people were happy with the performance of the incumbents. Actually, I'm sure it wouldn't. People usually don't vote for change for the sake of change. They need to become disillusioned first. When they do any half credible alternative will suffice. Just ask Jeff Kennett and Steve 'who' Bracks.

Good point...note the very very different attitude from the Members when Steve Bedwell stuck his nose in. We werent so ready to abandon the incumbents then

[stinger]

Joffaboy,

Please explain how someone who is personally calling members of supporter groups and the like, is "hiding behind Nathan Burke"

doesn't look like he is hiding to me...i might give him a call.....

[joffaboy]

They need to become disillusioned first. When they do any half credible alternative will suffice. Just ask Jeff Kennett and Steve 'who' Bracks.

And the new ticket is certainly "half" credible. It is the other half I am most concerned about.

I have decided I cant vote for either ticket. Eacj are equally worthless in my eyes.

Butters has to go, but Westaway has shown he is as slimy and not fit to be president with his gutter comments.

A pox on both their houses.

I really hope the new board (it will be Westaway and his ticket for sure) carry through with their promises and can raise the revenue side I things.

Heartened to hear that anything R.Lyon wants R.Lyon will get - that is great news.

I will now bow out of the debate. Have said my piece, and am sick of being shouted down and insulted by the pro messiah mentality desperates who make up the membership of the STKFC. I understand the loser mentality comes from 1 flag in one hundered years, but until this mentality changes we could never hope to have a spirit like North Melbourne for example.

Butters and Thomas tried to change it and failed. Heres hope the new white knight and his "New Leadership" mentality can do what countless have tried and failed before.

This club needs a kick up its arse. Everyone is sick of the old boy network.

Am certainly disheartened to hear supporters already happy the New President will have his companies hands on mailouts and another will get the catering contract for Saints matches.

The more things change the more things stay the same.

Swapping the old old boys for the new old boys.

Cheers - hope you all dont get too upset when i critisise the new messiahs in the seasons ahead.

[saint patrick]

I have not posted on the board topic until now. Now I simply cannot refrain any longer. I cannot believe the passion and abuse that have come out of all of this debate. After 3 decades as a loyal Sainter, i feel i am only now starting to understand the nature of the club.

Why are people so devout in their support of this guy or that guy? Why are they so derisive of those whose opinions differ from their own? Let's not forget people - this is a footy club, not a political party. It's about winning premierships and being successful on and off the field.

For those who are supporting RB - I say this, 7 or 8 years with one of the best lists in our history, and we still haven't made the last day in September. Yes we have improved under the incumbents, and I was very supportive of RB, GT and BW in early days, but $1m profits are not as good in the trophy cabinet as the major silverware. A football club is not a profit organisation - profits are only useful as a tool to improve the club onfield.

For those who care to know I will be supporting FF and sending my proxy in this week.

I don't need to see a detailed financial plan, what I need to see is an alternative that I feel has the skills, credentials and ambition to make improvements. I need to see that they share my vision of the future and understand what needs to be done to create that improvement.

I believe that RB is a lot like GT in that he was the right man for the right time, but that time has now passed. It was all about the club up until about 18 months ago, but it appears to be all about keeping the job now.

There are several deal-breakers for mine - the public spat with GT, sacking a succesful coach for personal reasons, the injury problem failing to be addressed and most recently the approach to Handy Andy to take the vote away from the members.

For all the drama queens, this is not an implosion or further proof of our mediocrity. This is the standard mechanism of change for an AFL club, and I see it as our collective rejection of the acceptance of mediocrity - in the past the cult of celebrity, or "Messiah" as some have taken to calling it, would have seen us clinging to the chosen one all the way down the drain, declaring undying loyalty. Now we have set our sights higher, and when we see that a servant of the club has gone as far as they can and begun to stagnate, we demand that they step aside and make way for those that can take us to the next level.

Much as GT was seen as a victim of the very culture change he sought to instigate, I believe RB is going down the very same path. Both should be proud of what they have acheived - their success has put them out of a job (albeit unpaid in RB's case).

Brilliant post TB..The clear,concise voice of reason that has hit the nail square on the head..well done

[saint patrick]

[quote="joffaboy"Cheers - hope you all dont get too upset when i critisise the new messiahs in the seasons ahead.[/quote]

Joffa I understand that you and I have diametrically opposed views on the current challenge to the board but wouldn't it be more constructive to accept and support which ever board the members choose rather than willing the new board to fail in the future to score the personal petty "I was right all along points".

I too will no longer post on this issue...have had my say and will accept the decision of the majorityof the St.Kilda members and support the club whichever way it goes.

Just so important that we go into 08 as a united force....

United we'll stand a great chance of realising our potential and very overdue success ....divided we will fall harder than ever before IMO

[Shaggy]

Cheers - hope you all dont get too upset when i critisise the new messiahs in the seasons ahead.

Fair enough if they are accompanied by your training reports at the same time. Bloody good reports last pre season. Hope you kept your fitness to cycle down to the club this pre-season . Looking forward to the read thanks in advance and throw as much rubbish on the board (whatever the make up) as you like in the mean time

[joffaboy]

[quote="joffaboy"Cheers - hope you all dont get too upset when i critisise the new messiahs in the seasons ahead.

Joffa I understand that you and I have diametrically opposed views on the current challenge to the board but wouldn't it be more constructive to accept and support which ever board the members choose rather than willing the new board to fail in the future to score the personal petty "I was right all along points".

I too will no longer post on this issue...have had my say and will accept the decision of the majorityof the St.Kilda members and support the club whichever way it goes.[/quote]

Re-read my post.

I said I hope the new board fulfilled its promises and increased its revenue and is successful.

However if it deserves critisism I will certainly give it. ATM anything this new lot does is great according to some on here and anything that amounts to critisism is shouted down.

Well i am sick of it and congratulations to the Westaway stormtroopers, you have shouted down any dissent or any questions regarding the credibility of the new group

As for supporting a board - pfft. I support the football team, not a bunch of old boys who will use the club for their business networking I dont "support" any board. Never have never will. Sorry I'm not a cheersquad like some on here.

[joffaboy]

Cheers - hope you all dont get too upset when i critisise the new messiahs in the seasons ahead.

Fair enough if they are accompanied by your training reports at the same time. Bloody good reports last pre season. Hope you kept your fitness to cycle down to the club this pre-season . Looking forward to the read thanks in advance and throw as much rubbish on the board (whatever the make up) as you like in the mean time

hehehehehehehehehe - no worries mate. Hoping to give an early pre - season report to the faithfull.

Stuff the politics, early November I'll be on the 80k round trip from Altona to Moorabbin. A great ride around the bay.

cheers.

[JeffDunne]

People can question the financial management abilities of the challengers all they like, but we now have a situation where if members are denied their vote the financial cost to the club could be massive.

How will this occur?

If people that are disenchanted are denied their right to a vote, I can see many thousands of supporters either failing to renew memberships, sponsoships, reserve seating and the like.

The club is going backwards on all those measures already. A season out of the finals would be enough to put pressure on all those areas. Denying disenchanted members the vote now could be a disaster.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

I believe simply because so many are disenchanted by what has happened over the past 12-18 months.

People are voting for the challengers because they trust them more than the incumbents. No doubt AT & NB help in winning that trust, but I doubt that would be enough if people were happy with the performance of the incumbents. Actually, I'm sure it wouldn't. People usually don't vote for change for the sake of change. They need to become disillusioned first. When they do any half credible alternative will suffice. Just ask Jeff Kennett and Steve 'who' Bracks.

It concerns me a bit to be honest. This is being run as a political campaign, small target, engage the supporter group leaders (factions), and let the disenchantment with Butterss do the rest.

Now, I know many people have done some reasearch and have their beefs, like yourself JD.

However, a board for St. KFC is a business move, not a political one. While I'm not convinced that cost slash debt reduction was the best way forward, now that we're out of the hole, I'm wary that we might be about to jump right back into it. I haven't seen any real business process put to the challengers, I've actually seen people advocating AGAINST a 5 year business plan. I feel we're not doing our due diligence.

Frankly, outlining potential but unrevealed sponsors, talking about spending more, talking about training facilities, those are the first slides on a powerpoint show... heck, even claiming to have 5000 proxies already is a sales move, it says "this is great, jump on board". Next, I'd like to have a view of where they want the business of St. KFC to be in 5 years (debt/balance/credit), I'd like to know what level of employer they expect to be in 5 years, I'd like to know who they see filling key posts in 5 years, and what new posts or changing posts they envisage.

THEN, I'd like to see an outline of how they'd like to get there. Investments, diversifications, resources, org chart. Year 1, year 2, year 3, year 4. I want to be able to benchmark them.

THEN, I'd like to see the current admin go through the same process.
As a business team, the RB crew has fulfilled their mandate and gotten us out of debt. They've made many mistakes along the way too. I'd like to be able to make an informed decision before I cast a vote, and not be barracking for anyone.

For mine, I hope this doesn't get done via proxy votes, as given that I'm not affiliated with any of the groups, and given the climate of public opinion, I doubt I'll get anything concrete to make my mind up on until the EGM.

Given the sentiment on this site however, which I do think is pretty indicative of the majority, I don't expect that to happen.

[snoopygirl]

Can someone get Greg Westaway to give Joffaboy a call? Reckon he'll be able to sway him as he has done with many other posters on here that have had personal contact with him.