A YEAR IS A LONG TIME IN FOOTBALL

[CURLY]

This time last year the experts were all over Geelongs list and coaches. There list was shown to have that many apparent flaws in it there was no way they could make the eight let alone challenge for the flag. We all heard the following assumptions.

There midfield was one paced
Ottens wasnt up to it in the ruck or key foward
Steve Johnson was trade bait that no one wanted
Cam Mooney was a loose cannon and unreliable
They lacked key fowards
Kelly would never be back to his best
King was finished
Ablett was good but needed to do more
Bartal and Ling were good honest players but lacked flair
Varcoe was a waste of a top 10 pick
Harley and Egan were undersized to go with key forwards
Hunt wouldnt put his body in

A year later they are the "THE GREATEST SIDE OF ALL TIME" according to some. There list has no holes and have so much depth no one will come close for five years. What has changed surely the inclusion of Selwood hasnt solved there pace issues or N ABLETT cant be called a key forward how much can be put down to being virtually injury free all season and having a early start to the pre season. They didnt blood heaps of kids or put games into blokes to have a look at them they picked there best 22 every week. Every year is a new begining and every club will be hoping 3-4 players have seasons out of the box and turn there years around. Will it be us can get 20 of our best 22 on the park foer a 22 games an d give it a tilt I think we can.

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

Spot on, exactly right, u get a fully fit Saints list on the park for the entire season and we can also go places only problem is injuries will happen this is a certainty and quality sides can cover this with depth sadly at this stage we have no depth.

[spert]

Agree about injuries..never underestimate the effect one or two injuries to key players can cause. If you have a forward, back or onballer in and out of the team, that little bit of unbalance can mean the difference in many games. Geelong were so lucky to have reasonably inury-free year -luck plays a big part especially in a sudden impact sport, not just good fitness regimes alone. Geelong also puts a lot of work into development whereas our club has a history of poor player development and that is one reason we have not had ongoing success..nothing changed under Thomas's reign, it was all about here and now, similar to the current board challenge -people looking for a quick fix as soon as something goes a bit wrong..find a scapegoat. I have seen good signs already that RL is developing young players and this is great for the future as the importance of good recruiting and development can be seen in successful clubs.

[GrumpyOne]

Don't under-estimate the work of Balmey in getting the cats fuctioning as a united group.

[Dan Warna]

concur, the geelong team list isn't that different from 07, their attitude, fitness and confidence are the difference, barely the players.

selwood i think is the only addition but really one player?

cam mooney has gone from being a bit of a bit player who chips in for a few goals every couple of games and suspended for the others, to being a geniune quality forward.

[CURLY]

The continual talk of the depth in there list lets go through there back up key position players.

Henry Playfair
Sam Hunt
Mathew Spencer
Charlie Gardener
Tom Lonergan
Tom Hawkins

As far as I can see not one of these players would make our best 22, yes the Tomahawk has the potential but were looking at this year so if Mooney went down the whole season could of been differant.

There midfield that basically went through uninterupted there back ups were.

Tim Callen
Ryan Gamble
Kane Tenace
Brent Prismall

Again who would make our best 22. That means starting at full strength Prismall maybe the others couldnt hold down a spot last year. Once again having your best 22 a majority is the key being able to not only pick players you want but drop players when there form drops. Even being able to give a player a extra week afetr an injury.

[busso mick]

Geelong of this year remind me of Carlton 1995 who lost only 2 games all year. They had a similar run with injuries and when you have the same blokes out on the park every week and start winning you build the intangible called confidence.

The thing with Geelong this year that stood out for me is their willingness to play on at all costs, even deep in defence they were very attacking and prepared to run hard into space. This is something that we have to learn to do better, but having the same core group (in particular the same back 6) out on the park week in week out will be a great start for us next year. As you say Curly a year ago the experts didn't give them a chance, they finished 9th like us this year with turmoil in the ranks. They have also had disappointments at the pointy end of the year like us, so there should be historical motivation within us from the playing group. With a bit of luck there is no reason we can't be in their shoes this time next year.

[saintsRrising]

The continual talk of the depth in there list lets go through there back up key position players.

Henry Playfair
Sam Hunt
Mathew Spencer
Charlie Gardener
Tom Lonergan
Tom Hawkins

As far as I can see not one of these players would make our best 22, yes the Tomahawk has the potential but were looking at this year so if Mooney went down the whole season could of been differant.

There midfield that basically went through uninterupted there back ups were.

Tim Callen
Ryan Gamble
Kane Tenace
Brent Prismall

Again who would make our best 22. That means starting at full strength Prismall maybe the others couldnt hold down a spot last year. Once again having your best 22 a majority is the key being able to not only pick players you want but drop players when there form drops. Even being able to give a player a extra week afetr an injury.

So from the players you have listed Hawkins, Tenace and Prismall all are capable of on 2007 form of making a contribution.


So what did the Saints have up our sleaves in our reserves = Nil!!!!
???

Also lets compare:

Rucks:

Ottens, King & Blake vs Gardiner (who has not played), Rix and Kosi


Geelong easily.


Half Forwards.... err we don't have one!!!!! We only have 1 forward pocket in Milne.

Geelong easily.


Mids.

Geelong have several more players than can run through the midfield.



Depth. Attard (great at stopping but does not win a lot of ball), Blake, CJ, Rix were all playing in our 22 and none are better than Geelongs bottom six players.



Yes the top end of our best 22 looks good....but the bottom end of our best 22 is not (as judged by 2007 form) as good as the Cats bottom 6.



The Cats had unrealised talent...and in 2007 yes they got them fit but also they got many to step and achieve at a much higher level.


Yes at the saints we have many players who have great potential....but too many players go missing for twoo many quarters...and in too many games....and fora long time this applied to the Cats as well.


Current under-achievers (ignoring fitness and injury) at the Saints currently include;


Dal..may sound harsh...but if he could be consistently good he would be AWESOME. He could bea great player rather than just beinga very good player.


X... needs to kick at goal better...needs more 4 quarter efforts


Raph.... a big underachiever at present. Needs to be more aware of his opponents.


Fiora...stepped up in a big way in 2007, but if he could kick at goal better could be anything. He greatly improved his consistency.

Milne. Perhaps harsh as FPs do tend to be inconsistent....but he goes missing too often (though if there were more small forwards to spread the load and tags he would probably go better).





The saints list hasa lot of potential......but it is not just a matter of getting all our players physically fit....Lyon has to get into their headspoace and get them mentally fit too.

We have so many players that could and should be delivery more than they are.

[CURLY]

Rucks Yes GEELONG easily Key Forwards St Kilda easily. Its exactlty what im pointing out before this year our midfield was far superior to Geelongs. Would you of been happy for thse trades at the beggining of the year?

BALL for Bartell
Dal Santo for Ablett
Hayes for Corey
Baker for Ling
Gram for Enright
Goddard for Mackie
Joey for Kelly

I dont think so Yes Steve Johnson has had a great season but would you have been happy for the club to take the risk with him?

[saintsRrising]

And my point is that it is not enough to get them fully fit and on the park (though yes this is very important).....you also have to get into their heads.

Rucks Yes GEELONG easily Key Forwards St Kilda easily.

But when you look ata forward line as a unit of six players then that is when we fall over.....

Its exactlty what im pointing out before this year our midfield was far superior to Geelongs.

Before this year we also had Thommo still in his prime, Pecket and Powell.


In 2007 we did not have their successors to these 3 playing AFL standard football. This a is a big hole that needs filling... Geelong had more mids that they can run thru the middle than us...it was true last year and more so this season.

Yes we have some cream at the top....but not enough depth in our midfield. Even the Eagles cream (2007) of Judd, Kerr and Cousins would struggle if it did not have its next tier to support it.


We BADLY need Armo and Birss to step up.....

I dont think so Yes Steve Johnson has had a great season but would you have been happy for the club to take the risk with him?

.....and my point is that Geelong got their underachievers to achieve....and yes fitness helped.....but a big part was also getting the players to improve individually.

ie Ablett becominga mid.

Ottens are last playing well week in week out..

Mooney playing well we in week out and controlling his aggression...

Turning Steve around....


Add these improvements to their steady players and you geta a much improved team.


We need to get more out of our underachievers as wel.....


It was said about the Ctas for years....only if.....

Well the same can be said about the Saints...only if...

[saintsRrising]

I should add that on the optimistic side that I saw signs that Ross L was in fact doing exactly that in 2007.....getting our under achievers to perform better.

...and we hope that Misson, Ross S and the AIS gus will rectify the fitness and player conditioning side.

[CURLY]

Johnson Mooney Chapman Yes
Stokes Ablett Kelly NO

Our best forward six this year with Roo G Kosi Milne X and Goddard and HARVS would be comparable if fit.

[CURLY]

Just thought I would rehash this old topic. Just to show how quickly things can turn. Always room to be positive.

[Secret Kiel]

I was part of a growing chorus in 2007 that Lyon was never going go win us a flag. True story. Lots of people were talking about it back then.

[kosifantutti]

I was part of a growing chorus in 2007 that Lyon was never going go win us a flag. True story. Lots of people were talking about it back then.

Lucky we lost those two Grand Finals. We wouldn’t want you to be wrong.

[Secret Kiel]

I was part of a growing chorus in 2007 that Lyon was never going go win us a flag. True story. Lots of people were talking about it back then.

Lucky we lost those two Grand Finals. We wouldn’t want you to be wrong.

I predicted the correct margins too.

[Enrico_Misso]

Whatever did happen to Dan Warner?

[Scollop]

I should add that on the optimistic side that I saw signs that Ross L was in fact doing exactly that in 2007.....getting our under achievers to perform better.

...and we hope that Misson, Ross S and the AIS gus will rectify the fitness and player conditioning side.

Couple of key figures were missing and the Cats had the guys and we didn't

Steven Dank and The Weapon

[saynta]

I should add that on the optimistic side that I saw signs that Ross L was in fact doing exactly that in 2007.....getting our under achievers to perform better.

...and we hope that Misson, Ross S and the AIS gus will rectify the fitness and player conditioning side.

Couple of key figures were missing and the Cats had the guys and we didn't

Steven Dank and The Weapon

Hammer. nail, head.

[CURLY]

Drag out this old thread and its even more relevent.

[spert]

This time last year the experts were all over Geelongs list and coaches. There list was shown to have that many apparent flaws in it there was no way they could make the eight let alone challenge for the flag. We all heard the following assumptions.

There midfield was one paced
Ottens wasnt up to it in the ruck or key foward
Steve Johnson was trade bait that no one wanted
Cam Mooney was a loose cannon and unreliable
They lacked key fowards
Kelly would never be back to his best
King was finished
Ablett was good but needed to do more
Bartal and Ling were good honest players but lacked flair
Varcoe was a waste of a top 10 pick
Harley and Egan were undersized to go with key forwards
Hunt wouldnt put his body in

A year later they are the "THE GREATEST SIDE OF ALL TIME" according to some. There list has no holes and have so much depth no one will come close for five years. What has changed surely the inclusion of Selwood hasnt solved there pace issues or N ABLETT cant be called a key forward how much can be put down to being virtually injury free all season and having a early start to the pre season. They didnt blood heaps of kids or put games into blokes to have a look at them they picked there best 22 every week. Every year is a new begining and every club will be hoping 3-4 players have seasons out of the box and turn there years around. Will it be us can get 20 of our best 22 on the park foer a 22 games an d give it a tilt I think we can.

Geelong had excellent strong leadership from the top and the players you mentioned were still highly regarded by the club, maybe not from outsiders or the media. They just identified weaknesses and addressed it, even brought Balme in to keep Thommo focussed in the coaches box.

[Scollop]

CURLY is saying if the umpires don't screw us next year, we are a good chance to go all the way.

As long as they pay us the free kicks we deserve in every game, we will be in contention in 2025 and playing deep in September

Might even get a Brownlow medalist

Good one CURLs