Looking back to look forward

saintbrat · Post: # 506098Post **saintbrat** » Sat 29 Dec 2007 10:19pm

found this article whilst looking for another. was probably posted at the time but I am certain the sentiments remain the same- and the honour he deserves just grows.

"""posted on a richmond fan forum
Here's a reason to hope St Kilda win the flag this year ....

Hope of the side
By Caroline Wilson
September 16, 2005

OF ALL the St Kilda heroes who did not win a flag, there are three in particular who, in their own different ways, have dedicated this September to Robert Harvey.

Stewart Loewe was at his 20-year school reunion at Peninsula Grammar 13 days ago. He kept, he said, half an eye on the qualifying final at AAMI Stadium during the first half but was forced to grab a chair and summon all the will he could muster to survive the second half of the game against Adelaide.

Immediately afterwards, he sent Harvey a text message, telling his friend he rated the performance "perhaps the best game you've ever played".

Danny Frawley was at home on the sofa with his 12-year-old daughter, Chelsea, who had been a flowergirl at Robert and Danielle Harvey's wedding. Frawley said at the start of 2005 that he planned to spend his weekends at the football watching his friend Harvey play out perhaps his last and - dare he hope it - first premiership season.

Frawley was moved to write a column in the Ballarat Courier about the armchair experience of the St Kilda-Adelaide game. He said that Chelsea - whose heroes are the two Nicks, Dal Santo and Riewoldt - realised that night that her father's quiet friend who laughed at all his jokes was also a football champion.

"I explained to her that players like Buckley, Hird and Voss get all the accolades because of their exposure in the media," wrote Frawley. "I told Chelsea that Rob has never craved the media attention and that he has always let his actions speak louder than his words."

Nathan Burke, a Saints assistant coach, was, naturally, sitting in the coach's box. In that last desperate quarter, he, too, saw that Harvey was a man on a mission. All three former Saints believe that the dual Brownlow medallist, who has finished in the top three of the club's best and fairest 10 times for four wins, lifted the entire team with his refusal to accept another lost spring.

Harvey's 300th game came in last year's preliminary final against Port Adelaide, with tonight's clash against Sydney taking his game total to 317. Between them, Harvey, Burke (the Saints' games record-holder on 323), Loewe (321) and Frawley (240) boasted 1200 games between them before tonight. As Frawley pointed out, the tally means a lot of games for no premierships. "Rob does not know it," wrote Frawley, "but he is also playing for a couple of guys who deserved to win a premiership. Stewart Loewe and Nathan Burke poured their hearts into the St Kilda Football Club.

"It would be near on criminal that Harvey, who has played nearly as many, would retire without tasting the ultimate success. Think about it. There would be almost 1000 games between them and not one premiership."

Loewe said the difference between victory and defeat in Adelaide was the man in St Kilda's No. 35 guernsey. "There is no doubt in my mind he lifted them over the line against Adelaide," added Loewe. "He kicked goals, he ran off the ball, he was brilliant.

"The truth is, we've had our time. We can only hang on to what we had and I wouldn't want Rob to feel any extra pressure from us. I just hope that if he does it, he does it for himself, his family and his teammates. Having said that, I will be there watching him and very happily jump on the bandwagon."

When Grant Thomas took the Saints by the scruff of the neck in his quest for success, he made a series of tough decisions. One was taking the captaincy from Harvey and rotating it to fast-track lessons in leadership in a club that had lacked it.

Harvey did not show it but he was quietly angry at losing the captaincy. He said nothing but was disappointed as the 2005 home-and-away series drew to a close and no one at the club officially approached him about playing on next season - something he now is strongly considering whatever happens over the next eight days.

And when the finals began, he set about stamping his authority upon the series and playing not only champion football but like a captain. His teammates have sensed it. Luke Ball, a future St Kilda captain who stood in for Riewoldt early this season, spoke in awestruck tones of Harvey's inspiration after the Adelaide victory.

Harvey's first season in 1988 marked him as the youngest AFL footballer in the competition when he made his debut as a skinny 16-year-old schoolboy from Seaford. In 2005, he is the oldest listed AFL player. Only Kevin Murray before him has shared both age extremes. Should Harvey's Saints win the flag, he will be - at 34 years 34 days - the oldest first-time premiership player in 82 years.

"Is there any justice in football?" Frawley asked. "At Hawthorn, Jason Dunstall and Dermott Brereton shared 10 flags between them. Surely, come the biggest Saturday in September, I will not be able to control my emotions when the announcer calls out Rob Harvey. His name deserves to go into the history books with 'premiership player' printed beside it."

Although neither Frawley, Loewe nor Burke dare to articulate it, should Harvey finally climb football's favourite podium, he will do so on the shoulders not only of his 21 teammates but also the invisible silhouettes of three other beaten bodies.

THE FOUR AMIGOS: LOOKING BACK ON AN AMAZING PARTNERSHIP
SAINT GAMES
Robert Harvey 316
Nathan Burke 323
Danny Frawley 240
Stewart Loewe 321
TOTAL 1200
PREMIERSHIPS 0

This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/arti ... 75375.html

Huzzad · Post: # 506101Post **Huzzad** » Sat 29 Dec 2007 10:52pm

Thanks for that mate, hadn't seen that one before. Good article.

This year is definatly our last shot to give Harvs the premiership he deserves...

Post: # 506105Post **n1ck** » Sat 29 Dec 2007 11:31pm

Read it at the time, but gave me shivers all over again.

bobmurray · Post: # 506107Post **bobmurray** » Sat 29 Dec 2007 11:51pm

WOW....We are a club that has had some of the best players ever but somehow we have prospered on mediocrity......

Fingers crossed for 2008..............

midas_touch · Sun 30 Dec 2007 12:24am

Pretty good article there. It would be an incredible injustice if Harvey were to retire without having won a premiership. Really hoping that we can go all the way for him next year.

yipper · Post: # 506125Post **yipper** » Sun 30 Dec 2007 12:03pm

There is no doubt that the reason Harvs is going around again in 08 is because he believes that we can win the thing. Gehrig has also sensed that if he retired he may miss a chance to play in a premiership team. Both players are of the view that we are an excellent chance for a flag in 08'.

Bernard Shakey · Sun 30 Dec 2007 10:10pm

I spoke to him on that night after the game (as he was getting on the team bus).
Robert Harvey is the greatest gentleman to ever pull on a football boot and deserves to be rewarded with the ultimate prize, a Saints premiership.

rodgerfox · Post: # 506189Post **rodgerfox** » Sun 30 Dec 2007 11:29pm

midas_touch wrote:It would be an incredible injustice if Harvey were to retire without having won a premiership.

Going to be real unpopular here - but why does he deserve it?

Nothing in football comes because you deserve it.

Everyone works hard.

Everyone (well quite alot) love their club.

Plenty of blokes have played 300 games.

Plenty of blokes have stayed true to their club for less money.

Lots have played in losing GFs.

No ones deserves anything.

I'd love for him to get what he wants, but he doesn't deserve it more than many others.

Scoop · Post: # 506190Post **Scoop** » Sun 30 Dec 2007 11:50pm

rodgerfox wrote:
midas_touch wrote:It would be an incredible injustice if Harvey were to retire without having won a premiership.
Going to be real unpopular here - but why does he deserve it?

Nothing in football comes because you deserve it.

Everyone works hard.

Everyone (well quite alot) love their club.

Plenty of blokes have played 300 games.

Plenty of blokes have stayed true to their club for less money.

Lots have played in losing GFs.

No ones deserves anything.

I'd love for him to get what he wants, but he doesn't deserve it more than many others.

RF.........I am without speech!!

saint66au · Post: # 506210Post **saint66au** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 10:07am

Rodg..you are entitled to your opinion of course...but if you know a good nuclear fallout shelter Id suggest you go hide in it for...umm...a year or so????

Interesting article. I know Tiges fans who are convinced to this day that Spud's heart was still partly at St Kilda even when coaching the Tiggers. They were furious when he made a point of keeping the Tigers out on the ground to farewell Burkey...a sign that his heart wqas really at Moorabbin apparently

SENsei · Post: # 506217Post **SENsei** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 10:56am

I agree with Rodger Fox also, but I just loved that article and I love Robert Harvey.

I can think of nothing better than him being a premiership player, but he doesn't have a pre-ordained right to it above anyone else.

Many greats of the game don't have premiership medallions - Bobby Skilton, Kevin Murray, Nathan Buckley, Robert Flower, Grant Thomas.

Many others have nearly got them by default - Mario Bortolotto, Josh Mahoney, Richard Hadley...come to mind.

No one deserves it more than Harvey, but no one deserves it less either.

Have a great new year's folks. Here's to getting what we crave in 2008.

st_Trav_ofWA · Mon 31 Dec 2007 10:57am

rodgerfox wrote:
midas_touch wrote:It would be an incredible injustice if Harvey were to retire without having won a premiership.
Going to be real unpopular here - but why does he deserve it? - dude you need to be posting elsewhere
this is a st kilda fan forum

Nothing in football comes because you deserve it. - True but the years of hard work earns the right to deserve it

Everyone works hard. - not as hard as banger works

Everyone (well quite alot) love their club. - but few have loved the club throuhg the lows that bangers has seen at this club

Plenty of blokes have played 300 games. - yeah how many have played over 300 games with two brownlows and one year whiped out from a knee reco ? how many can say they have played to the standard of Bangers ? to quote Scribe "not many.. if any..."

Plenty of blokes have stayed true to their club for less money. - its not about the money its the service he's provided in those years and staying loyal when he could of jumped ship to win a flag else where. Bangers doesnt want a flag he wants a St Kilda Flag

Lots have played in losing GFs. - but most havent been at a club who for the majority of their carreer have been soo far off from a flag to get so close only to stumble and then again be 15 teams away from the flag .

No ones deserves anything. - wrong hard work deserves reward but life aint always fair and what is deserved is not always obtained one things for sure if bangers never gets that flag he can still walk away with his head held high

I'd love for him to get what he wants, but he doesn't deserve it more than many others. - honestly mate there are some rules of being a saints man and the major one is you never ever bag the greats you name me one player outside of st kilda who has done what bangers has done and that inbodies what bangers means to this club and who doesnt have the recognition of a flag and ill debate their deserving of a flag til im blue in the face !

SENsei · Post: # 506219Post **SENsei** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 11:04am

In Rodger's defence, he didn't 'bag a great'. He 'bagged' the use of the word 'deserved', from what I read.

yipper · Post: # 506221Post **yipper** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 11:06am

Rodg is right to a point. Harvs does not have any special rights to be a premiership player - the great Trevor Barker never even played in a final!! However, in the modern world of AFL and the almighty dollar driven society that we live in - it is refreshing to see a player conduct himself in such an exemplary manner on and off-field the way Harvs does. We also know he has passed on many a lucrative offer to leave the Saints for greener?? pastures. We also know that he has been hurt by the club before, been disappointed by it's actions off-field and seen the worst times imaginable at the Saints. The fact that he loves the saints to death and plays for love of his team and his mates is an endearingly old-fashioned trait that we all love and relate to. He is our humble champion and we want him to be a premiership player. He deserves success, because of the qualities he possesses and the way he plays the game. Sure, no more than any other great player from anywhere - but he is one of ours, he has displayed loyalty, leadership and courage all through his career. He is a champion and he deserves that flag.

rodgerfox · Post: # 506222Post **rodgerfox** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 11:09am

st_Trav_ofWA wrote:
rodgerfox wrote:
midas_touch wrote:It would be an incredible injustice if Harvey were to retire without having won a premiership.
Going to be real unpopular here - but why does he deserve it? - dude you need to be posting elsewhere
this is a st kilda fan forum

Nothing in football comes because you deserve it. - True but the years of hard work earns the right to deserve it

Everyone works hard. - not as hard as banger works

Everyone (well quite alot) love their club. - but few have loved the club throuhg the lows that bangers has seen at this club

Plenty of blokes have played 300 games. - yeah how many have played over 300 games with two brownlows and one year whiped out from a knee reco ? how many can say they have played to the standard of Bangers ? to quote Scribe "not many.. if any..."

Plenty of blokes have stayed true to their club for less money. - its not about the money its the service he's provided in those years and staying loyal when he could of jumped ship to win a flag else where. Bangers doesnt want a flag he wants a St Kilda Flag

Lots have played in losing GFs. - but most havent been at a club who for the majority of their carreer have been soo far off from a flag to get so close only to stumble and then again be 15 teams away from the flag .

No ones deserves anything. - wrong hard work deserves reward but life aint always fair and what is deserved is not always obtained one things for sure if bangers never gets that flag he can still walk away with his head held high

I'd love for him to get what he wants, but he doesn't deserve it more than many others. - honestly mate there are some rules of being a saints man and the major one is you never ever bag the greats you name me one player outside of st kilda who has done what bangers has done and that inbodies what bangers means to this club and who doesnt have the recognition of a flag and ill debate their deserving of a flag til im blue in the face !

I perhaps didn't express my opinion as well as I could have.

See SENSaintsational's post. He expressed my opinion better than I did!

Footy, and sport is not decided by what's fair. Not by what's just. Not by what is 'deserved'.

Footy and sport in general, is loaded with hard luck stories and tales of 'tragedy'.

That's what makes the highs so high - because the lows can be so very, very low.

I'm not bagging Harvey. Never have, never will.

I just don't buy into the theory that anyone deserves a flag based on anything other than the fact that the team they are a part of, score more than their opponents on the last Saturday in September.

Individuals don't win flags, teams do. Harves is the third best footballer I've ever seen - but in a team sport, that doesn't mean anything.

Is there anyone in the game I'd love to see win a flag more than Harves however? No way. Not even close.

Saints43 · Post: # 506226Post **Saints43** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 11:25am

I reckon you can say that he deserves it.

He is a part of the sum. The sum doesn't deserve it because it hasn't been good enough. But the part has been. Well and truly.

Let's hope it happens...

No one deserves it more than Harvey, but no one deserves it less either.

Troy Bond deserved it less. Much less.

yipper · Post: # 506227Post **yipper** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 11:28am

Saints43 wrote:I reckon you can say that he deserves it.

He is a part of the sum. The sum doesn't deserve it because it hasn't been good enough. But the part has been. Well and truly.

Let's hope it happens...

No one deserves it more than Harvey, but no one deserves it less either.

Troy Bond deserved it less. Much less.

And Shane Ellen!!

BAM! (shhhh) · Mon 31 Dec 2007 12:03pm

Personally, I have no hesitation saying that of all players without a premiership currently playing, Harvery deserves it more than anyone.

However, I can see Rodger's point, given the post he responded to saying it would be a "massive injustice" if Harvey were to retire without one. Rodger took issue with the concept of deserving, perhaps (and correct me if I'm wrong Rodger) it would have been more accurate to talk about justice.

Justice has nothing whatsoever to do with and individual winning a premiership.

Many have gone lacking who deserved to win, many have won who did nothing to deserve it. In this thread we've got the names Burke, Loewe and Frawley. All three could be said to have deserved, but there's no injustice in them not attaining.

Robert Harvey deserves to be a premiership player, but should it not happen there is no injustice in it at all. He's one man and a premiership is a team award.

st_Trav_ofWA · Mon 31 Dec 2007 12:05pm

SENsaintsational wrote:I agree with Rodger Fox also, but I just loved that article and I love Robert Harvey.

I can think of nothing better than him being a premiership player, but he doesn't have a pre-ordained right to it above anyone else.

Many greats of the game don't have premiership medallions - Bobby Skilton, Kevin Murray, Nathan Buckley, Robert Flower, Grant Thomas.

Many others have nearly got them by default - Mario Bortolotto, Josh Mahoney, Richard Hadley...come to mind.

No one deserves it more than Harvey, but no one deserves it less either.

Have a great new year's folks. Here's to getting what we crave in 2008.

better hope B4e doesnt read that

SENsei · Post: # 506246Post **SENsei** » Mon 31 Dec 2007 12:09pm

Are you seriously saying that Grant Thomas didn't deserve to be among the greats without a premiership? He is a former Victorian centre half back I'll have you know!!

He does have a replica premiership wok though, I believe. He refuses to smile at it.

st_Trav_ofWA · Mon 31 Dec 2007 12:19pm

SENsaintsational wrote:Are you seriously saying that Grant Thomas didn't deserve to be among the greats without a premiership? He is a former Victorian centre half back I'll have you know!!

He does have a replica premiership wok though, I believe. He refuses to smile at it.

more a tounge in cheek dig a B4E's love affair with any thing GT related

ahhh i remember the wonderful wizbang wok carlton did very well to win the wok and come september win the wooden spoon to match the wok