Forget whos at FF, we're not going anywhere til this happens

[Solar]

actually your both right and both wrong. He will play as a swingman this season, not unlike his break out year last year. Watch for him to be used to shut down fast HFF (see judd), or go forward (kicked a bag of three when swung forward last year) and also some time in the middle.

He and a fit BJ give us great flexability in the team.

On the mids most people have things covered but would not be suprised if we see geary, eddy and armo in the team by rd 22.

[bigcarl]

(gilbert) kicked a bag of three when swung forward last year

i'd forgotten that.

gilbert's kicking for goal is actually not that bad ... probably statistically no worse than x, bj or schneider.

[bigcarl]

gilbert could also be a better HBF

How many HBF'ers do we have? I'd say we have at least 7.

But apart from Gram there is no pace in the backline and that is why he (gilbert) will play back.

well your mail is usually pretty good so i suspect that is what will happen. of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best decision.

personally i'd play xavier and raphael in the backline to add a bit more pace and whack bj and gram on the wings where their long kicking can be best utilised.

both are capable of goals from outside 50, which is something we desperately need.

c: gram, dal santo, bj
hf: gilbert, riewoldt, schneider
ff: gehrig, kosi, milne

[RBnW]

(gilbert) kicked a bag of three when swung forward last year

i'd forgotten that.

gilbert's kicking for goal is actually not that bad ... probably statistically no worse than x, bj or schneider.

given his limited opportunities going forward he is as good as X , not sure about a fit, lean and coached BJ ....... but as yet he is nowhere near to Schneider who is a proven 30 goals a year player IMHO

[plugger66]

gilbert could also be a better HBF

How many HBF'ers do we have? I'd say we have at least 7.

But apart from Gram there is no pace in the backline and that is why he (gilbert) will play back.

well your mail is usually pretty good so i suspect that is what will happen. of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best decision.

personally i'd play xavier and raphael in the backline to add a bit more pace and whack bj and gram on the wings where their long kicking can be best utilised.

both are capable of goals from outside 50, which is something we desperately need.

c: gram, dal santo, bj
hf: gilbert, riewoldt, schneider
ff: gehrig, kosi, milne

Raph may play back but he certainly will not add pace. Grammy will play HBF for his pace but reall they basically nearly all play on the ball except a few talls so he can still kick a few goals. IMO bj is far to slow to play as a genuine wingman. Maybe X could play there but I think he will play mainly as a HF. IMO your forward and centre line is far to tall and to slow. Any way it will not be the forwards that win you the game but the onballers as in 2004 when they were at their best.

[bigcarl]

given his limited opportunities going forward he is as good as X , not sure about a fit, lean and coached BJ ....... but as yet he is nowhere near to Schneider who is a proven 30 goals a year player IMHO

i'd like to see some stats for all of the above. how many goals, for example, did schneider kick for sydney last year and at what percentage accuracy?

[bigcarl]

Any way it will not be the forwards that win you the game but the onballers as in 2004 when they were at their best.

let's hope we don't underestimate actually putting a score on the board like we did last year

[plugger66]

Any way it will not be the forwards that win you the game but the onballers as in 2004 when they were at their best.

let's hope we don't underestimate actually putting a score on the board like we did last year

That was due to the poor form because of various reasons of the onballers. It causes the forwards to get ball to slowly in get a poor kick into the forward line.

[RBnW]

given his limited opportunities going forward he is as good as X , not sure about a fit, lean and coached BJ ....... but as yet he is nowhere near to Schneider who is a proven 30 goals a year player IMHO

i'd like to see some stats for all of the above. how many goals, for example, did schneider kick for sydney last year and at what percentage accuracy?

Here are the facts for Schneider
Career Matches: 77
Career Goals: 72
2007 Home & Away Totals
Matches: 20
Goals: 26
Marks: 95
Disposals: 317
Kicks: 207

Gilbert is 20 games and 7 goals.......and a side step

[bigcarl]

c: gram, dal santo, bj
hf: gilbert, riewoldt, schneider
ff: gehrig, kosi, milne

IMO your forward and centre line is far to tall and to slow.

of the above i'd really class only bj and perhaps kosi as being perhaps a little slow.

however both are very good players who compensate more than adequetely for their apparent lack of pace by their excellence in other areas.

i just think that with swift, long and direct delivery this type of a set-up would be very difficult to stop and would be very efficient at converting opportunities into goals ... something we didn't do in 2007

[bigcarl]

given his limited opportunities going forward he is as good as X , not sure about a fit, lean and coached BJ ....... but as yet he is nowhere near to Schneider who is a proven 30 goals a year player IMHO

i'd like to see some stats for all of the above. how many goals, for example, did schneider kick for sydney last year and at what percentage accuracy?

Here are the facts for Schneider
Career Matches: 77
Career Goals: 72
2007 Home & Away Totals
Matches: 20
Goals: 26
Marks: 95
Disposals: 317
Kicks: 207

Gilbert is 20 games and 7 goals.......and a side step

thanks. it was really their percentage accuracy i was interested in, though, since gilbert spent most of last season back

[Solar]

gilbert could also be a better HBF

How many HBF'ers do we have? I'd say we have at least 7.

But apart from Gram there is no pace in the backline and that is why he (gilbert) will play back.

well your mail is usually pretty good so i suspect that is what will happen. of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best decision.

personally i'd play xavier and raphael in the backline to add a bit more pace and whack bj and gram on the wings where their long kicking can be best utilised.

both are capable of goals from outside 50, which is something we desperately need.

c: gram, dal santo, bj
hf: gilbert, riewoldt, schneider
ff: gehrig, kosi, milne

Raph may play back but he certainly will not add pace. Grammy will play HBF for his pace but reall they basically nearly all play on the ball except a few talls so he can still kick a few goals. IMO bj is far to slow to play as a genuine wingman. Maybe X could play there but I think he will play mainly as a HF. IMO your forward and centre line is far to tall and to slow. Any way it will not be the forwards that win you the game but the onballers as in 2004 when they were at their best.

pace down back is only useful in holding pacy small forward IMO. I could see the likes of howard or geary given a go as a rebounding HB (in addition to chips) which will release gram to play some more time on a wing/HF like he was starting to late last year. Pace is great but the ability to read the play, take marks and hit player up rebounding out of 50 is a lot more important (thus this is where chips comes into his own)

carl I like the midfield - forward set up but perhaps look to work gilbert off the bench to play as a typical utility (fwd/mid/back). I could see X starting as a HF but the position is up for grabs for someone that is quick enough to get the ball once it hits the ground. I've always been a big fan of fergs, who has a great motor, good skills and nice marking skills, but I would suggest his books are marked. If BJ can get some match fitness under his belt it's not beyond him as well.

[plugger66]

gilbert could also be a better HBF

How many HBF'ers do we have? I'd say we have at least 7.

But apart from Gram there is no pace in the backline and that is why he (gilbert) will play back.

well your mail is usually pretty good so i suspect that is what will happen. of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best decision.

personally i'd play xavier and raphael in the backline to add a bit more pace and whack bj and gram on the wings where their long kicking can be best utilised.

both are capable of goals from outside 50, which is something we desperately need.

c: gram, dal santo, bj
hf: gilbert, riewoldt, schneider
ff: gehrig, kosi, milne

Raph may play back but he certainly will not add pace. Grammy will play HBF for his pace but reall they basically nearly all play on the ball except a few talls so he can still kick a few goals. IMO bj is far to slow to play as a genuine wingman. Maybe X could play there but I think he will play mainly as a HF. IMO your forward and centre line is far to tall and to slow. Any way it will not be the forwards that win you the game but the onballers as in 2004 when they were at their best.

pace down back is only useful in holding pacy small forward IMO. I could see the likes of howard or geary given a go as a rebounding HB (in addition to chips) which will release gram to play some more time on a wing/HF like he was starting to late last year. Pace is great but the ability to read the play, take marks and hit player up rebounding out of 50 is a lot more important (thus this is where chips comes into his own)

carl I like the midfield - forward set up but perhaps look to work gilbert off the bench to play as a typical utility (fwd/mid/back). I could see X starting as a HF but the position is up for grabs for someone that is quick enough to get the ball once it hits the ground. I've always been a big fan of fergs, who has a great motor, good skills and nice marking skills, but I would suggest his books are marked. If BJ can get some match fitness under his belt it's not beyond him as well.

I think you need pace down back for not only holding fast small forwards but more for the run they give you and thats were Grammy comes into his own. I cant remember Grammy plying much in the forward line late last year but if he did he obviously didnt impress that much. IMO he is much better straght ahead player than one that needs to turn alot.

[Solar]

gilbert could also be a better HBF

How many HBF'ers do we have? I'd say we have at least 7.

But apart from Gram there is no pace in the backline and that is why he (gilbert) will play back.

well your mail is usually pretty good so i suspect that is what will happen. of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best decision.

personally i'd play xavier and raphael in the backline to add a bit more pace and whack bj and gram on the wings where their long kicking can be best utilised.

both are capable of goals from outside 50, which is something we desperately need.

c: gram, dal santo, bj
hf: gilbert, riewoldt, schneider
ff: gehrig, kosi, milne

Raph may play back but he certainly will not add pace. Grammy will play HBF for his pace but reall they basically nearly all play on the ball except a few talls so he can still kick a few goals. IMO bj is far to slow to play as a genuine wingman. Maybe X could play there but I think he will play mainly as a HF. IMO your forward and centre line is far to tall and to slow. Any way it will not be the forwards that win you the game but the onballers as in 2004 when they were at their best.

pace down back is only useful in holding pacy small forward IMO. I could see the likes of howard or geary given a go as a rebounding HB (in addition to chips) which will release gram to play some more time on a wing/HF like he was starting to late last year. Pace is great but the ability to read the play, take marks and hit player up rebounding out of 50 is a lot more important (thus this is where chips comes into his own)

carl I like the midfield - forward set up but perhaps look to work gilbert off the bench to play as a typical utility (fwd/mid/back). I could see X starting as a HF but the position is up for grabs for someone that is quick enough to get the ball once it hits the ground. I've always been a big fan of fergs, who has a great motor, good skills and nice marking skills, but I would suggest his books are marked. If BJ can get some match fitness under his belt it's not beyond him as well.

I think you need pace down back for not only holding fast small forwards but more for the run they give you and thats were Grammy comes into his own. I cant remember Grammy plying much in the forward line late last year but if he did he obviously didnt impress that much. IMO he is much better straght ahead player than one that needs to turn alot.

it was more a run through wing position that he played which allowed him to kick more games. If he does play HF it's more the midfield HF which allows him to continue to be a straight ahead player (unlike someone like x which can lead as well as run forward)

you can run without pace, just look at harvey. All I am suggesting is that it comes down to match ups and who we can free up to give us that rebound. BJ and chips, hell even fish at times have given us great rebound so gram should not be pigeon holed in the HB rebounder role (for his sake and the teams).

[saintsRrising]

Versatility......I think RL is looking for this in 2008.,,,both in individuals and in team structure.

There was an interesting grab from Goose in today's HS about him wanting to play on short and tall players.....

As he also referred to the game plan...i expect the short and tall comment has stemmed from RL's desires.


Gram I expect to mainly play HB......with Sam Fisher that gives us two excellent running HBs...and with Gram a very pacey one.

Last year RL described BJ as "the Saints point of difference"......and he referred to his kicking and him playing HB to wing......and so this is where I expect him to play....setting up Saints play AND importantly being our main player to kick in from FB.

In 2007 our kick ins were by and large poor......BJ will really improve this aspect of our play.

He will have some time in the midfield or going forward...but I expect him mainly being given the task of setting up play and this is better done down back.


Gilbert will be a swing man. How much he plays down back may well depend on Dempster. IF Dempster can grab a spot in the 22 RL will have two mobile players that can shut down players. I expect Gilbert to be given a variety of roles......BP, HBF, FB.....tagger in the midfield, wing, HFF, FP

Gilbert to be our Mr Versatile......probably spending most of his time in the back half but will be well used in a variety of positions from game to game and within games.

[hAyES]

HB and wing is the perfect position for Goddard, sometimes even HF because his kicking for goal is too good to never give him a run there.

[Zed]

No doubt the quality of the midfield since 04 & 05 seasons has gone down.

Montagna the only one that has markedly improved since then. We need a few others to step up to join Ball, Hayes, Dal Santo & Montagna as 'A' grade midfielders (note - I am assuming that Ball has overcome his injuries). Harvey is probably slipping back to a 'B' grade midfielder this year.

I think Leigh Fisher has the potential to make a good "B grade" midfielder, but only X has the potential to step up to being an "A" grader this year. On potential, Armo & Gilbert could be "A" graders, but we would have to invest 12 months in both those guys. (I'm not convinced Gilbo's best value to the team is midfield anyway)

We need to create add another 2 A graders before we can go top 4 again.

[Saints94]

No doubt the quality of the midfield since 04 & 05 seasons has gone down.

Montagna the only one that has markedly improved since then. We need a few others to step up to join Ball, Hayes, Dal Santo & Montagna as 'A' grade midfielders (note - I am assuming that Ball has overcome his injuries). Harvey is probably slipping back to a 'B' grade midfielder this year.

I think Leigh Fisher has the potential to make a good "B grade" midfielder, but only X has the potential to step up to being an "A" grader this year. On potential, Armo & Gilbert could be "A" graders, but we would have to invest 12 months in both those guys. (I'm not convinced Gilbo's best value to the team is midfield anyway)

We need to create add another 2 A graders before we can go top 4 again.

Gilbert has every right to be an A grade midfielder he showed that he can during the year playing in the midfield and coming of half back

[Saints94]

Leigh Fisher is to slow to become a midfielder he can

be a tagger or a backman that suits him fine

[Otiman]

I see Leigh Fisher as a Powell type player, aggressive and a great tackler. Slow but works hard in the stoppages. Can also play back on small and mid forwards. Very versatile defensive player which Ross Lyon loves, I just can't see him in our best 22 given everyone being fit.

[Saints94]

Powelly wasnt a backman!

[Otiman]

Didn't have the height for it. I was referring to his work at stoppages.

[Saints94]

Didn't have the height for it. I was referring to his work at stoppages.

Well you said he was like powell

[Otiman]

Well you said he was like powell

Yep, slow but useful.

[Saints94]

Yeah. But you said he was like Powelly " he can play down back"