Potential selection problems...

[rexy]

Baker has been good over the years but is nowhere near a sure bet for the 22. actually I hope that he wont be able to win a spot in our side due to good form and fitness of the players already playing.

Maguire and Goddard are walk ins if fit and I'd suggest Allen may be required as we need another tall deep down back.

You severely under rate how good Baker is. We had to fight for Bakers scribble last year which shows that he is rated by the coaching staff also. Baker best 22, no problems.

[Armoooo]

I just had a look at the Richmond game, there is no doubt that Xavier is in our 22!!
To tell you the truth I'm not sure if Max is up to it anymore, it hurts me to say it and I hope he proves me wrong but the game seems to have passed him...

My 22 would now be looking like this....
FB: Baker Maguire Gilbert
HB: Gram S.Fisher Goddard
C: Xavier Hayes Montagna
HF: Schneider Riewoldt C.Gardiner
FF: Gehrig Koschiztke Milne
R: King Ball Dal Santo
I/C: Gardiner Harvey Armitage Geary
Emg: Too bloody many, L.Fisher, Hudghton, Raph, Fiora, Birss, Dempster, Blake, Rix, Gwilt, Allen etc...
I also believe that we need a bit of youth and self believe (ala Collingwood) aswell as a high level of fitness and intensity (ala Geelong) however we still have the skill and forward potency we have always had...

[Huzzad]

Baker has been good over the years but is nowhere near a sure bet for the 22. actually I hope that he wont be able to win a spot in our side due to good form and fitness of the players already playing.

Maguire and Goddard are walk ins if fit and I'd suggest Allen may be required as we need another tall deep down back.

You severely under rate how good Baker is. We had to fight for Bakers scribble last year which shows that he is rated by the coaching staff also. Baker best 22, no problems.

I concur

[fugazi]

X is in the starting 18 when fit, one of the fastest and more skilful...no doubt about his worth when his body is right.

The first 5 weeks without Baker will allow the fringe players to shore up a regular spot :
Fiora vs Armo vs Geary vs Birss vs Raph vs L. Fisher vs Blake vs Dempster vs C.Gardiner vs Milne

Goddard is a certainty to return to the starting 18, Maguire if fit is a starter, and imo so is Schneider

B: Gilbert.............Max...............S Fisher
HB: Goddard.........Maguire...........Gram
C: Montagna.........Hayes............X-Man
HF: Schneider.......Reiwoldt.........???
FF: Kosi...............Gehrig............???
R: King, Ball, Dal Santo
I/C: M.Gardiner, Harvey, Baker, ???

These are the 3 question mark spots in our full team, at this stage they would go to Blake, Milne, and C.Gardiner....but could easily turn into Armo, Geary and Fiora/ Raph.

[Oh When the Saints]

Schneider is a walk up start, and by the end of the year will be in the best 12 players at the club IMO.

B: __(A)__, M. Hudghton, S. Baker
HB: J. Gram, M. Maguire, S. Fisher
C: X. Clarke, N. Dal Santo, L. Montagna
HF: __(B)__, N. Riewoldt, A. Schneider
F: F. Gehrig, J. Koschitzke, S. Milne
Foll: S. King, L. Hayes, L. Ball
I/C: __(C)__, M. Gardiner, R. Harvey, B. Goddard

(A) Back pocket spot = R. Clarke, L. Fisher, J. Geary, S. Dempster, J. Blake
(B) Half forward spot = C. Gardiner, C. Jones, D. Armitage, S. Gilbert
(C) Fourth bench spot = J. Blake, S. Gilbert, A. Fiora, R. Clarke, S. Birss, D. Armitage

[fugazi]

owts....it may be early days, but don't you reckon Gilbert is a walk up start in the back 6?, as is Goddard when fit...which pushes L.Fisher into a tagging role and up against Dempster, Blake and Baker for that role. Also, with the arrival of Schneider, I think Milne is under the most pressure of his career...will need to kick and assist goals week in week out....won't be able to work thru those flat spots like he has the last couple of years.

[Quixote]

Suggestions that X Clarke, Blake and Baker are not in our 22 are ludicrous.

[Otiman]

I think, from an overall team balance and structure perspective, that I would have C. Gardiner ahead of Milne.

[F_Q_F]

It will probably be down to match ups to say who will get the last few spots in the team.

IMO Armitage is in our best 22, Lyon wants us to be the best tackling side in the league and his hardness and goal kicking ability will put him ahead Birss and Fiora.

[saintly]

If geary, armitage, xclarke, jones, L fisher, C gardiner, Schneider all play well next week, i would have no idea who to pick for round 1.

[bigcarl]

I think, from an overall team balance and structure perspective, that I would have C. Gardiner ahead of Milne.

i like the look of charlie too. only reservation i have about him as a forward is can he put a score on the board? ie convert opportunities to cold, hard goals.

i've no such doubts about milne

[Sobraz]

I would expect Armo to overtake X this year, and would pay him in a midfield role round 1, ahead of X... We have seen X go to water too often throughout his career, and has not taken the next step... Armo is a tank of a boy and will bruise the opposition when he gets an opportunity..

Buckley made a great point the other night.. When a player has the ball in his hands, from a mark or free kick, he controls the game.. He tells players where to lead and directs the traffic.. Great example fo this is BJ.. This is something X does not do.. As it were, Buckley made the point when X had the ball, and was at his indecisive best..

He has to be a smarter player, and this includes picking his contests better.. he often goes in head first, and his courage is often to his detriment.. X should be competing with Charlie and Milne, as the 5/6 forward, working up the ground.. Big year for him, and Armo..

[Mr X from the West]

I would expect Armo to overtake X this year, and would pay him in a midfield role round 1, ahead of X... We have seen X go to water too often throughout his career, and has not taken the next step... Armo is a tank of a boy and will bruise the opposition when he gets an opportunity..

Buckley made a great point the other night.. When a player has the ball in his hands, from a mark or free kick, he controls the game.. He tells players where to lead and directs the traffic.. Great example fo this is BJ.. This is something X does not do.. As it were, Buckley made the point when X had the ball, and was at his indecisive best..

He has to be a smarter player, and this includes picking his contests better.. he often goes in head first, and his courage is often to his detriment.. X should be competing with Charlie and Milne, as the 5/6 forward, working up the ground.. Big year for him, and Armo..

I have NEVER seen X-man go to water. He has been injured, yes, but that is the only thing that has EVER held him back.

[aussiejones]

all about putting a score on the board, which we often failed to do last year.

AMEN

[St Chris]

If this truly is a thread about Round 1 (not another best 22 thread), then picking a team to beat the Swans is the priority. The game will be won between the 50m Arcs, so picking a strong, tough midfield is crucial.

Milne for mine hasn't shown anywhere near best 22 form in the Nob cup so far, so he misses. Jones takes the small forward role, where his lack of raw skill isn't so apparent (...get the red thing, put it between the big sticks...)

Blake Gets a spot on the bench to match up on Goodes, but I'd have C Gardiner back in for the Blues game.

Baker, Maguire and Goddard fit back in when available.

B: L Fisher Hudghton R Clarke

HB: Gram S Fisher Gilbert

C: Montagna Hayes Dal Santo

HF: Schneider Riewoldt X Clarke

F: Gehrig Koschitzke Jones

Foll: King Blake Ball

Int: Geary M Gardiner Armitage Harvey

Em: Fiora Milne C Gardiner

[Ralphy]

id drop x clarke,

and have c gardiner in,

[Spinner]

id drop x clarke,

and have c gardiner in,

Did you want to include some information as to why you believe that?

....Maybe some reasoning, some facts...basically some sort of explanation to allow me to attempt to understand your opinion....

Because without some detailed discussion....I really don't care what you think when you fail to tell me why you think that way.

It is a discussion forum.

[To the top]

The debate around X. Clarke not being in the side only serves to highlight that Schnieder and Milne are in competition for one spot in the forward line.

And, on disclosed form last week, Schnieder wins.

Milne will have to play and play a very big part on Saturday to bridge the gap once we are narrowed down to 22 players.

And then perform consistently, including against top sides.

Good position to be in, no doubt, but they are the facts.

Simply X. Clarke is in our top few and is a certainty for selection, as is his brother.

At full strength, and on reputation plus disclosed practice match form :-

L. Fisher Hudgden Gilbert
Gram Maguire S. Fisher
Reiwoldt Goddard Hayes
X. Clarke Koschitzke C. Gardiner
Montagna Gehrig Schnieder
King Dal Santo Ball
M. Gardiner Harvey Armitage R. Clarke

C. Gardiner and Armitage have, so far, done the work to have got a guernsey.

If they continue to impress this week, they will be there in Week 1 (and particularly if we have a couple un-available).

And Geary has to be right in the mix, with the versatile Blake who will get a gig down back whilst Hudgden and Maguire are absent.

Injuries will give some an opportunity, and if they nail the opportunity it is going to become very, very interesting.

Which is exactly what we want.

[FullMonty]

For what its worth I'd have Charlie Gardiner before X and Raf wouldn't get a game after he made Soooo many clangers against the Bombers that nearly cost us the game.

[meher baba]

While I admire OWTS's enthusiasm for Schneider. I for one would be fairly cautious about getting carried away about any of Schneider, Dempster, C Gardiner or even King at this early stage. The idea that reject first team players from another club are going to effortlessly supplant early draft picks from previous years and other proven performers is always pretty doubtful.

We have seen quite a few regular first team or fringe players from other clubs switch to the Saints in recent years. Apart from Gehrig and Hamill, who were elite players, most of the others - Penny, Powell, Guerra, Knobel, Ackland, McGough, M Clarke - showed a great deal of early promise before eventually displaying problems that were probably a factor in why their previous clubs had delisted them or weren't dying in a ditch to hang on to them.

But, that said, I must say that Schneider and King have both looked first rate in the NAB cup. C Gardiner looked ok as well, although he has clearly made a much bigger impression on others among you.

[St DAC]

Steven King is the best ruckman at St Kilda period. The concept that (when fit, as he currently is) he is not a walk-up start as first ruck is laughable.

Clarke, X is an automatic first 18 player, simply based on his skills, courage and versatility. Clarke, R is not, but probably gets a game as Ross seems to like him in the team. For mine, he and Gilbert are competing for a spot, and I'd prefer Gilbert.

Schneider wasn't wooed here to play for the Scorps, so I'd expect him in the side. Milne has been pretty good in the NAB without dominating, and is both dangerous as a forward and a better assist player than is usually acknowledged, so I'd include them both.

It's gunna be tough for the match committee to pick a side for R1 ...

My side (for R1) :

L. Fisher Max Gilbert
Gram S. Fisher R. Clarke
X. Clarke Hayes Montagna
Schneider Riewoldt C. Gardiner
Milne Gehrig Koschitzke
King Dal Santo Ball
M. Gardiner Harvey Armitage Blake

There's a few unlucky blokes; Birrs and Geary in particular. When available, I'd like to slot Maguire, BJ and Bakes in there somewhere, but I'm not sure who to leave out!

[vacuous space]

The debate around X. Clarke not being in the side only serves to highlight that Schnieder and Milne are in competition for one spot in the forward line.

But Schneider didn't play as a forward the other night. After he kicked his goal the other night, he ran back to the wing, and got the next centre clearance. He said in an interview after the trade that RL had sold him on a move to St. Kilda on the promise of more midfield time. When Matt Maguire was asked recently what our forward setup would be, he didn't even mention Schneider. He mentioned the three talls plus Milne, Charlie Gardiner and Clinton Jones.

[saintsRrising]

The debate around X. Clarke not being in the side only serves to highlight that Schnieder and Milne are in competition for one spot in the forward line.

But Schneider didn't play as a forward the other night. After he kicked his goal the other night, he ran back to the wing, and got the next centre clearance. He said in an interview after the trade that RL had sold him on a move to St. Kilda on the promise of more midfield time. When Matt Maguire was asked recently what our forward setup would be, he didn't even mention Schneider. He mentioned the three talls plus Milne, Charlie Gardiner and Clinton Jones.

Indeed...

At least at the start of the year I expect Scneider to be played in that role with pleanty of midfield time...but yes still running forwrd to kick goals.


RL seems likeely to play all of GTrain, kosi and Roo when fit....and C gardiner if he continues his form will be in as the medoum forward.

This leaves two smalls....one of which could bea rotationg mid.


3 talls
1 medium

2 small...Milne. Jones....may be X...or rtationg mids.

If Jones continues his good form then Rl will be tempted to play him for the forward pressure he can exert....and as we know Rl is keen to improves this aspect.

[bigcarl]

When Matt Maguire was asked recently what our forward setup would be, he didn't even mention Schneider. He mentioned the three talls plus Milne, Charlie Gardiner and Clinton Jones.

sounds like a pretty good mix to me so long as charlie and clinton can actually steer the big leather pill through the sticks occasionally.

i like both of them as players but still need to be convinced that they can actually put a score on the board ... a desirable quality in a forward I would have thought.

how about the 3 Divas, milne, charlie (or gilbert) and a resting midfielder, which would give dal santo, ball, montagna, xman, harvey, schneider or jones an occasional shot at kicking goals.

[saintsRrising]

While Gilbert can go forward....and as a swingman will be handy...to me he is showing everything you want in a modern backman...



He can tackle
He has good pace
He likes a run and bounce...and combines this with good dodging
Is a handy spoiler...and will get better (his early start against Lucas was very good...and with experience he will get better)


He can there be very good defensively.....while is also very attacking.


With Kosi, Roo, GTrain and Charlie all available I do not think that Gilbert is needed asa permanent forward.

secondly I think his current skill set is better suited down back.