Interesting article by Voss' brother

[JeffDunne]

I think every single St Kilda player should read that article.

I think every single St Kilda supporter should read that article.

And then both should read the article next to it - http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/b ... 80844.html

Because even if we win tonight and Essendon lose, I guarantee the Bombers will play with dash, dare and guile, and give their fans something to get excited about.

When the AFL start auditing membership figures I'll start using them as a measure of supporter satisfaction.

Both articles are gross simplifications.

[cowboy18]

Because even if we win tonight and Essendon lose, I guarantee the Bombers will play with dash, dare and guile, and give their fans something to get excited about.

I'm way, way past being excited about losing in an exciting fashion.

That's the kind of mediocrity and shallowness that defined our culture for so many years. I'm over it.

I want St Kilda to win. Whatever it takes. If they need to grind, so be it. If they can blast another team off the park, so be it.

They can definitely play an exciting and attacking style of football and have done so this year on a few occasions - never for 4 quarters - but seem to lack the confidence

[brown-coat]

He's right about us not playing as a team, but his other comments seem to be founded on ignorance.

It's not foot speed and it's not skill level, as has been widely reported. It's merely intent. Great teams are willing to look out for one another.

It's not foot speed?!?!?!?! Poor comment.

We also can't kick goals. We could play together as a team but our crappy forward players and goal scared midfielders will spray it all over the place and lose us games as they have been all year and most of last year.

We lack reliable goalkickers to win games.

It's the coach and his negative frightened margin protecting gameplan. We never go in for the kill, we get a lead and try to protect it.

Simple minded article voss.

[Dan Warna]

actually I think Essendon are ripe for the 'lyon/roos' close down strategy.

they are fast and agressive, but like us in 97, hate being shut down.

in fact they have picked up a lot of habits from knights.

[Richter]

It's only his perspective, but from where I sit it rings true. As a matter of interest who are our worker bees ? Blake would have to be one, can't think of too many others. Maybe Max. Who else would fit the bill?

Try Luke Ball, Lenny Hayes, Robert Harvey, Sam Fisher, Max Hudghton, Nick Riewoldt for starters.

I agree with brown-coat, a very simple minded unprovable article that merely trades on his stature as a triple premiership winning captain rather than actually adding anything useful or interesting to the debate. Gerard Healey's article in the Sun is a much more incisive read IMO.

[spert]

Max works hard as we know, but I think he is slowing down and can't spring as high, so he is going to struggle this year I think, same as Harvs to a slightly lesser extent. That's two of our acknowledged hardest workers who are falling away for the pace of the game in 2008.

Blake does give his all, but some weeks good, some weeks bad.

This season, Riewoldt, Ball, Hayes and CJones are our best examples of how to work hard and make a contest of everything.

Kozi has become lazy as has NDS -no passion in their games...two highly skilled players who are just doing enough..just.

[Behind Play]

How true, I was only discussing the same topic with mate @ the dogies game.
If true, what is Ross doing?

[Lennon]

I sense the St Kilda leaders do not take enough ownership for the performance of the team. That nobody is willing to stand up and say, "Hey, as a group we are not doing this well enough and if I need to play a different role or support another player, then I will put aside my own ego and do it".

I would have said our captain and vice captain were among the few who seemed to give a crap against the Cats.

As for Gehrig - if you're going to play decoy, your opponent can't run down the field and do damage themselves.

Voss's motivation for writing this article seems to be to defend Gehrig and sink the boot into the Saints leaders.


While I DO agree that a lot of the Saints players do not play for each other... these are NOT the examples I would have used.

[Buckets]

He's right about us not playing as a team, but his other comments seem to be founded on ignorance.

It's not foot speed and it's not skill level, as has been widely reported. It's merely intent. Great teams are willing to look out for one another.

It's not foot speed?!?!?!?! Poor comment.

We also can't kick goals. We could play together as a team but our crappy forward players and goal scared midfielders will spray it all over the place and lose us games as they have been all year and most of last year.

We lack reliable goalkickers to win games.

It's the coach and his negative frightened margin protecting gameplan. We never go in for the kill, we get a lead and try to protect it.

Simple minded article voss.

I fail to see how Vossy could be accused of ignorance, especially when he talks about things football! He has had what 3 yrs in total on the bench in the coach's box and the commentary box and before that 3 premiership medalions as undoubtably the best team in 50 years!
Voss is right on the money and the funny thing is that Buckley on AW said the same thing last week while commentating the game. We don't play for the team, there is no helping out our guys, they are more worried about making sure that they dont stuff up!
We have proved that we dont worry about the speed of the game when we play as a single unit looking out for one another with the same goal in sight!

[rodgerfox]

As for Gehrig - if you're going to play decoy, your opponent can't run down the field and do damage themselves.

Absolutely.

The moment the defender senses you're simply a decoy, clearly he will play looser.

Gehrig shouldn't have been a decoy - but actually tagged Scarlett.

[vacuous space]

Kozi has become lazy as has NDS -no passion in their games...two highly skilled players who are just doing enough..just.

Kosi was just about the hardest working player on the ground last weekend. He didn't give up when the ball went to ground and was often at the bottom of packs fighting for the ball. In the end he came away with 16 disposals, 10 of them contested. In a game where skill errors cost us dearly, his disposal was excellent. RL has complimented him in the press before this week on his forward pressure and I doubt the Geelong game did anything to change his mind. What made you think he was lazy?

[ace]

Voss is bang on the mark.
How many times have I seen Riewoldt and Koschitzke both lead at the same time, to the same place, with both of their opponents in the same contest.
When Dunstall and Lockett played together for Victoria they played for the team.
Lockett set a block for Dunstall giving Dunstall a break on his opponent.
If Dunstall's lead did not attact the ball Dunstall would led his opponent out of the zone leaving it vacant for Lockett to lead into.
Two great full forwards working togther.

Riewoldt and Koschitzke both want to be the hero and wont play for the team, they don't block for any body.

Milne does it so often for Gehrig, he is never at the drop of the ball.

Gehrig is the most reliable kick for goal.
Oppostiion coaches tell his oppoent to run him up the ground.
If our coach had half a brain he would forbid Gehrig to leave the 50 metre arc.
Instead he would tell Gehrig to stand 30 metres out and tell Riewoldt, Koschitzke and everyone else to get the hell out of the 50 metre arc.
Go ahead oppostion coaches I dare you to leave Gehrig alone.
St Kilda will enjoy Gehrig's 10 goals as a result of turnovers.

[Lennon]

Riewoldt and Koschitzke both want to be the hero and wont play for the team, they don't block for any body.

That is such a pile of crap that it would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating.

What the hell do you think Riewoldt is doing when he runs from half forward to half back because the ball's turned over? Playing for the team. He runs himself ragged playing for the team every week.

As for Justin, another player has already pointed out the effort he went to against the Cats last week.

They're getting used to this forward set-up. There's going to be a couple of adjustment problems.

As for your praise of Frasier... you do realise he essentially just took himself out of the game last week? He needed to tag Scarlett at least, and he didn't even do that.

[JeffDunne]

Because even if we win tonight and Essendon lose, I guarantee the Bombers will play with dash, dare and guile, and give their fans something to get excited about.

I'm way, way past being excited about losing in an exciting fashion.

That's the kind of mediocrity and shallowness that defined our culture for so many years. I'm over it.

I want St Kilda to win. Whatever it takes. If they need to grind, so be it. If they can blast another team off the park, so be it.

They can definitely play an exciting and attacking style of football and have done so this year on a few occasions - never for 4 quarters - but seem to lack the confidence

I love you cowboy.

[ace]

Fraser Gehrig is a goal kicker not a tagger.
He has not got the fittness, he should not be in the team to tag.
Let Scarlett run up field away from him.
If Gehrig is required to follow Scarlett, then sack the coach.
Only an imbecile would expect the impossible.
Clear out the 50 metre arc leaving Scarlett with no one to cover for him when there is a turnover.
Gehrig alone in the 50 metre arc every turnover = goal to the saints.

[evertonfc]

Because even if we win tonight and Essendon lose, I guarantee the Bombers will play with dash, dare and guile, and give their fans something to get excited about.

I'm way, way past being excited about losing in an exciting fashion.

That's the kind of mediocrity and shallowness that defined our culture for so many years. I'm over it.

I want St Kilda to win. Whatever it takes. If they need to grind, so be it. If they can blast another team off the park, so be it.

They can definitely play an exciting and attacking style of football and have done so this year on a few occasions - never for 4 quarters - but seem to lack the confidence

You've missed the key point entirely.

Essendon fans know that 2008 really doesn't matter to them, as they are a developing quick, exciting brand of football capable of winning games when their list matures.

The point is not that they will have an 'exciting' loss, but that the fans not only have something to look forward to in the future (a highly competitive side), but something to get excited about right now.

What do we have?

Blokes who aren't prepared to pull their finger out and deliver on their potential.

I don't want to be the next Richmond. I want to win. But by god, if we are to lose, I want to lose in such a manner that sees us fight and scrap for every ball and every contest until we are left with 14 men on the park.

Nothing less.

[cowboy18]

Because even if we win tonight and Essendon lose, I guarantee the Bombers will play with dash, dare and guile, and give their fans something to get excited about.

I'm way, way past being excited about losing in an exciting fashion.

That's the kind of mediocrity and shallowness that defined our culture for so many years. I'm over it.

I want St Kilda to win. Whatever it takes. If they need to grind, so be it. If they can blast another team off the park, so be it.

They can definitely play an exciting and attacking style of football and have done so this year on a few occasions - never for 4 quarters - but seem to lack the confidence

You've missed the key point entirely.

Essendon fans know that 2008 really doesn't matter to them, as they are a developing quick, exciting brand of football capable of winning games when their list matures.

The point is not that they will have an 'exciting' loss, but that the fans not only have something to look forward to in the future (a highly competitive side), but something to get excited about right now.

I'm not sure I have completely missed it. I have a different perspective though, and disagree that focussing on potential future accomplishments is of any real merit. I'd stand by the comment that that perspective typifies the kind of mediocrity and shallowness that defined our club's culture and supporter's attitude for so many years.

In 2004 we had a team playing a quick, exciting and aggressive brand of football. They were capable of winning games then and would soon be the competition benchmark, especially when our list matured. It gave me something to look forward to and created an expectation that my highly competitive side would deliver something special in the future. So I coped with the losses my developing side suffered in the expectation that something good was imminent.

What that told me was that football is all about the here and now. Potential means nothing. And that glowing in the aftermath of an honest, well fought out loss littered with exciting and positive passages of play was cold comfort in the longer run when the trophy cupboard remains rather empty.

So if I was an Essendon fan I would feel that 2008 does matter to me.



edit: I agree with the points I cut out of everton's post, I share those frustrations (among many others at the moment!)

[Lennon]

Fraser Gehrig is a goal kicker not a tagger.
He has not got the fittness, he should not be in the team to tag.
Let Scarlett run up field away from him.
If Gehrig is required to follow Scarlett, then sack the coach.
Only an imbecile would expect the impossible.
Clear out the 50 metre arc leaving Scarlett with no one to cover for him when there is a turnover.
Gehrig alone in the 50 metre arc every turnover = goal to the saints.

Oh dear.

In all seriousness, Frasier should have retired last year. He will not play on after this year, and for us to set up our forward structure around a 30 year old player who will not be there this time next year is ridiculous, when we have two young gun forwards who need the experience of working together in the forward line.

Frasier was playing as a decoy forward last week, and had no impact on the game.

The same could not be said for his opponent.

I would say he should not be in the team then.

[rodgerfox]

Fraser Gehrig is a goal kicker not a tagger.
He has not got the fittness, he should not be in the team to tag.
Let Scarlett run up field away from him.
If Gehrig is required to follow Scarlett, then sack the coach.
Only an imbecile would expect the impossible.
Clear out the 50 metre arc leaving Scarlett with no one to cover for him when there is a turnover.
Gehrig alone in the 50 metre arc every turnover = goal to the saints.

Oh dear.

In all seriousness, Frasier should have retired last year. He will not play on after this year, and for us to set up our forward structure around a 30 year old player who will not be there this time next year is ridiculous, when we have two young gun forwards who need the experience of working together in the forward line.

Frasier was playing as a decoy forward last week, and had no impact on the game.

The same could not be said for his opponent.

I would say he should not be in the team then.

If Fraser was played as a decoy last week as is being suggested, then we have some very serious issues in the coaches box.

Being a decoy is solely designed to drag defenders away from our preferred forward target.

This didn't work. Not even close.

And nothing was really done to fix it.


The reason I use the word 'tag', is that the moment Scarlett went to Gehrig, we should have been licking our chops. Instead, we let it kill us.

Gehrig doesn't need to kick 10 every week. The key to him is that he still getting the best defender each week - which is amazing. Mainly because if he does get a dud, he can kick 10!

We need to use this to our advantage.

Being a decoy won't work if everyone knows that's what you're doing. Scarlett will simply leave him and do his own thing, knowing full well we aren't going to use Gehrig. He'll end up getting 24 touches and numerous rebound 50s like last week.

Watching Gehrig when Geelong had the ball last week was almost comical. He had absolutely no idea what to do.

He looked like he knew what was probably the right thing to do, but was confused about what the coaches have told him to do.

In this case, he should have simply run with Scarlett. Don't fill space. Don't zone off. Don't do anything other than stop Scarlett getting the ball.

Or at least if he does get it, he is under pressure.

[congorozides]

I really cant see how he knows this when he has nothing to do with the club

Did his brother tell him? I doubt it

I dont respect this Jerk that preferred a Sydney win in the pf we played them "for the good of the competition" over his brothers glory.


Only positive from this story is we hope the players read it

all you have to do is watch a game to know its true. you dont need to know the "inner sanctum" of the team to see the lack of team work.

[rexy]

I am not sure whether the lack of structure up forward is players disciplines, egos or efforts, or a lack of proper direction from the forward coach/senior coach. Hard to say without knowing first hand.

I do know that in the past the 3 talls have operated successfully, with the best match up for us going back to the goal square and the worst playing very high or wide to drag their opponent out of the play, this has either stopped because the coach doesnt like it/hasnt thought of it or because the players have stopped working hard enough.

Last week I would have had G take Scarlett out into the left forward pocket, a spot we know he can kick goals from and then sent one of the other talls back to the square. If Scarlett tries to leave G and cover then we use him, if he stays with G then we use the player out of the square and Scarlett is not at the fall of the ball to rebound. Under GT this was the formula we used, best match up to the square, oppositions best defender away from the play. If they change-we change. Dont think GT was the best coach but this was something that worked.

[Cirra]

I just read Voss's article and I don't agree with it.

My reason is simple....he didn't give any examples. He just used alot of generic cliches with nothing specific about how we play.

I respect that he is very knowledgable about all things footy and he was one of the greats, but, show me some facts.

Just because we had 3 bad quarters of footy against the Dogs, where we didn't chase or tackle, doesn't suddenly mean we don't play as a team.