Saints playing funeral songs

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Interesting article

Any of our successes have come from a coach that has Stkilda in his heart ala Alves and Thomas. These guys made our players play from the heart as well.
Apart from the select few as mentioned in a thread days back its a pay check for the rest.

what successes ? Alves coached us to a losing G/F hardly a success and GT coached us to losing Prelims ....... only one successful coach at St kilda and thats Yabby Jeans ... the fact we concider the GT era successful says alot about the mentalitiy of our suporters .
this article is just another dig at poor old Stkilda never mind the other clubs struggleing at the moment its always comes down to silly st kilda and their useless coach ... 3 years ago the media hardly rated GT as coach and were saying we needed to off load him yet now hes gone St Kilda made the wrong choice to off load GT

its almost like the media in this instance wants us to implode and sack yet another coach by causein unrest within the fans .

[St DAC]

Yeah I do.

Most people that supported a change in coach seem to grasp at anything in their attempts to justify our recent performances.

You think that's what I'm doing here? I'm not.

I didn't support the change in coach. I though GT was doing a reasonable job as a coach; but there's SFA I can do about it; I'm just one member, the board makes those decisions and they made one on GT.

Lyon is 1 season and 8 games into a 3 year contract. He inherited a decent but not world-beating list; had a horror year last year with injuries, and we are having similar issues this year too. He's addressed our ruck issues in the only manner available to him (trading and drafting) and that result looks pretty reasonable; his drafting for the future looks OK (this year's crop looks pretty good) and his top up players gained in trading are at least AFL quality, if middle of the pack, and didn't cost the earth in draft picks. Not too many bargains are available in recycled players these days; his Sydney and Geelong picks were decent value.

As far a justifying our results is concerned, I'm not. I think we've underperformed so far. We have too many passengers in the side, and too many players in less than stellar form, and our results are where they are accordingly. I'm no apologist for him; if after his three years, taking all the circumstances into account he's been unable to have the side perform the board will make the call I'd expect. But calling for his head now smacks of a knee jerk reaction. And disparaging our game style is just foolish; when the form improves, the aesthetics will too.

But I agree the buck stops with the coach. I'd like him to finish his contract and be judged, rather than judged now.

[JeffDunne]

Sorry St DAC. It was unfair to direct that at you.

I am getting a little tired though of people - including Lyon - quoting games or quarters of evidence that everything is smashing.

FFS we sound like Carlton.

[degruch]

I agree...it's a mixed bag from Ross, but who in their right mind would want to sack him before his contract ends? Nuts! He's barely had time to sit down, what with player injuries, sacked boards, moving to Frankston and a team that's seemingly gone lame...he's gotta be the most frazzled coach in the AFL, give to poor bugger time to do his work.

[St DAC]

Sorry St DAC. It was unfair to direct that at you.

I am getting a little tired though of people - including Lyon - quoting games or quarters of evidence that everything is smashing.

FFS we sound like Carlton.

No problem JD, I'm not that sensitive!

I don't think everything is smashing. I'm quite unhappy with our form. But I agree to some extent with RL; it's the players who grace the field, and they are not doing enough with their collective talents. And it's they who need to turn it around.

Preferably staring this week ...

[Saints43]

I agree...it's a mixed bag from Ross, but who in their right mind would want to sack him before his contract ends? Nuts! He's barely had time to sit down, what with player injuries, sacked boards, moving to Frankston and a team that's seemingly gone lame...he's gotta be the most frazzled coach in the AFL, give to poor bugger time to do his work.

I don't think anyone has called for him to be sacked. But as noted things are not going well at the moment. You seem to think "the contact in not even half way yet." I think "the contract is nearly half over!".

Maybe I'm panicking but there doesn't seem to be any indication that things are going to turn around. I also don't believe we have had a horror run with injuries this year. We certainly have had the best draw I can ever remember to start the season.

What I do expect the board to be doing is addressing any shortcomings they believe they hav identified via training/additional personnel (if possible). And always - not just now - be looking for the best person to fill the role. Ross Lyon should be aiming to be that person.

[degruch]

Well, sacking's been mentioned quite a few times in this thread...and another.

No, we had a horror run with injuries at the start of last year...so he never started with a clean slate. After the injuries began to subside, problems with GT and the board started. Get to the start of this season and our dream draw for the start of '08, GT's still playing up and the club's at war with the local council...G-Train barges back in, a couple promising young players get injuries and the team goes wobbly. His contract might be half over, but when does he get a chance to start coaching!?!

[yipper]

Yeah I do.

Most people that supported a change in coach seem to grasp at anything in their attempts to justify our recent performances.

You think that's what I'm doing here? I'm not.

I didn't support the change in coach. I though GT was doing a reasonable job as a coach; but there's SFA I can do about it; I'm just one member, the board makes those decisions and they made one on GT.

Lyon is 1 season and 8 games into a 3 year contract. He inherited a decent but not world-beating list; had a horror year last year with injuries, and we are having similar issues this year too. He's addressed our ruck issues in the only manner available to him (trading and drafting) and that result looks pretty reasonable; his drafting for the future looks OK (this year's crop looks pretty good) and his top up players gained in trading are at least AFL quality, if middle of the pack, and didn't cost the earth in draft picks. Not too many bargains are available in recycled players these days; his Sydney and Geelong picks were decent value.

As far a justifying our results is concerned, I'm not. I think we've underperformed so far. We have too many passengers in the side, and too many players in less than stellar form, and our results are where they are accordingly. I'm no apologist for him; if after his three years, taking all the circumstances into account he's been unable to have the side perform the board will make the call I'd expect. But calling for his head now smacks of a knee jerk reaction. And disparaging our game style is just foolish; when the form improves, the aesthetics will too.

But I agree the buck stops with the coach. I'd like him to finish his contract and be judged, rather than judged now.

That's a pretty fair assessment. I am on the same page. I don't want my club to implode yet again - and do not think there is a need at this stage. Just get behind the coach NOW - and address the issues that are preventing us from winning the games we should. Assess the situation at the end of his contract and then the call will be more likely the correct one whichever way it goes. Do anything now and it will be a poor decision - we could end up back in laughing stock territory.

[Solar]

Yeah I do.

Most people that supported a change in coach seem to grasp at anything in their attempts to justify our recent performances.

You think that's what I'm doing here? I'm not.

I didn't support the change in coach. I though GT was doing a reasonable job as a coach; but there's SFA I can do about it; I'm just one member, the board makes those decisions and they made one on GT.

Lyon is 1 season and 8 games into a 3 year contract. He inherited a decent but not world-beating list; had a horror year last year with injuries, and we are having similar issues this year too. He's addressed our ruck issues in the only manner available to him (trading and drafting) and that result looks pretty reasonable; his drafting for the future looks OK (this year's crop looks pretty good) and his top up players gained in trading are at least AFL quality, if middle of the pack, and didn't cost the earth in draft picks. Not too many bargains are available in recycled players these days; his Sydney and Geelong picks were decent value.

As far a justifying our results is concerned, I'm not. I think we've underperformed so far. We have too many passengers in the side, and too many players in less than stellar form, and our results are where they are accordingly. I'm no apologist for him; if after his three years, taking all the circumstances into account he's been unable to have the side perform the board will make the call I'd expect. But calling for his head now smacks of a knee jerk reaction. And disparaging our game style is just foolish; when the form improves, the aesthetics will too.

But I agree the buck stops with the coach. I'd like him to finish his contract and be judged, rather than judged now.

That's a pretty fair assessment. I am on the same page. I don't want my club to implode yet again - and do not think there is a need at this stage. Just get behind the coach NOW - and address the issues that are preventing us from winning the games we should. Assess the situation at the end of his contract and then the call will be more likely the correct one whichever way it goes. Do anything now and it will be a poor decision - we could end up back in laughing stock territory.

agree yipper, round 9 with the ladder showing us 4-4, it will be very silly to entertain the idea that we should do anything except get behind the coach and club. They have a huge game this week, a chance to get the season back on track.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Interesting article

Any of our successes have come from a coach that has Stkilda in his heart ala Alves and Thomas. These guys made our players play from the heart as well.
Apart from the select few as mentioned in a thread days back its a pay check for the rest.

what successes ? Alves coached us to a losing G/F hardly a success and GT coached us to losing Prelims ....... only one successful coach at St kilda and thats Yabby Jeans ... the fact we concider the GT era successful says alot about the mentalitiy of our suporters ..

I think it says a lot about our supporters that we're too scared to look at those times as successful.

Nobody remembers who finished 3rd (and they only remember 2nd as part of propping up first), but that doesn't mean it was a bad year. In '04, '05 and '06 I enjoyed the Saints right to the bitter end... much more than I do at the moment. They made me happier. It's all I can really ask.

We don't find out the premier of any given year right till the end. I don't decide whether I enjoyed the year or not only then. I honestly feel for anyone who does, because even the most successful teams will only win a relatively small number of the years played.

[stinger]

me thinks that the honeymoon is well and truly over......

[bergsone]

IAnyone see a pattern here?

Yeah I do.

Most people that supported a change in coach seem to grasp at anything in their attempts to justify our recent performances.

Agree with that

[JeffDunne]

I'm actually surprised nobody has mentioned that "When the Saints Go Marching In" is a traditional funeral song.

[evertonfc]

Lightweight journalism..

So Assistant coaches are not good as a source for a head coach.....

The whole point of the paragraphs you reproduced was the following.
Nowhere does it say that assistant coaches should not be promoted.

It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.

What is the point of pulling four paragraphs out of an article and arguing what has not been said?

Saints43, you've caught him red-handed.

When an article goes to print and a fan doesn't like it, they immediately attempt to wheel out the whole 'lazy journalism' tag as if this somehow proves the article is wrong.

It's pathetic.

Trevor Grant is allowed to have an opinion; since when did having an opinion make you a lightweight or lazy?

If it is abudantly clear that the journalist has their facts wrong or clearly has no understanding of the topic, then sure, their editorials are fair game...

But to slag off a writer who's hit the nail on the head - and has said what the majority are thinking - is terrible form. It's an easy way for the general public to dismiss the truth.

Opinion articles are just that, opinion...but jeez, an opinion isn't automatically wrong because it's negative.

[St DAC]

Opinion articles are just that, opinion...but jeez, an opinion isn't automatically wrong because it's negative.

Quite right. In this case it's wrong because it's a pile of merde. But Grant is certainly entitled to his misconceptions.

[yipper]

Maybe so.

However, one point about Trevor Grant that I find a tad annoying is that right throughout Grant Thomas's tenure - he was one of his most vocal critics - excessively so. Always harped on about the "process" and how we chose not to appoint well-credentialled assistant coaches!! Instead chose our own man - constantly he was on GT's back about this lack of process and his coaching credentials or lack thereof.

And now he comes out with the "well, the well credentialled assistant coaches aren't all that good afterall tripe. Should have stayed with Thomas or gone an experienced coach or whatever the hell the point of his piece is. He is not a journo I find creditable at all.

[NoMore]

We can win as many games as we like playing the way we are and i still won't go and watch. My family spent $1500 on memberships this year and none of us want to go. Thats alot of money not to be entertained.

As long as that boring peice of S**t is coach i won't be going to the football and if he is appointed for next year the club will lose $1500.

[stinger]

We can win as many games as we like playing the way we are and i still won't go and watch. My family spent $1500 on memberships this year and none of us want to go. Thats alot of money not to be entertained.

As long as that boring peice of S**t is coach i won't be going to the football and if he is appointed for next year the club will lose $1500.

looks like a troll........smells like a troll.......talks s***......so more than likely a troll....or a blue begger......same diff......

[JeffDunne]

Maybe, maybe not stinger.

I've heard life long St Kilda supporters express similar comments.

[NoMore]

I have supported the saints since i was born. And have been a member that whole time. So Stinger give me one reason i should pay all that one to come home miserable even when we hold on by under a goal to beat one of those crap teams at the bottom

AND If you think i am the only person who is thinking like this you don't speak to many people

[saintsRrising]

Lightweight journalism..

So Assistant coaches are not good as a source for a head coach.....

The whole point of the paragraphs you reproduced was the following.
Nowhere does it say that assistant coaches should not be promoted.

It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived.

What is the point of pulling four paragraphs out of an article and arguing what has not been said?

Saints43, you've caught him red-handed.

When an article goes to print and a fan doesn't like it, they immediately attempt to wheel out the whole 'lazy journalism' tag as if this somehow proves the article is wrong.

It's pathetic.

Trevor Grant is allowed to have an opinion; since when did having an opinion make you a lightweight or lazy?

If it is abudantly clear that the journalist has their facts wrong or clearly has no understanding of the topic, then sure, their editorials are fair game...

But to slag off a writer who's hit the nail on the head - and has said what the majority are thinking - is terrible form. It's an easy way for the general public to dismiss the truth.

Opinion articles are just that, opinion...but jeez, an opinion isn't automatically wrong because it's negative.

TG opened up by basically stating that we did not know what we were getting because Lyon was an untried assistant (the editor should have changed this to untried head coach by the way...as he clearly was an experienced assistant).

What relevance was this???


Did we know what we were getting with Blight an experienced coach????

No...we were shocked to find he had a greater love for time on the golf course than his players.

The article wasa hatchet job written as an opinion piece and bereft of balance and facts.


Now take this line:
It meant, of course, that, for all the high-powered research of the modern-day coaching recruitment process, a club didn't really know what it was getting when the new man arrived


Where is there any evidence to back this up?

Does TG know what Ross Smith and others on our Clubs appointment were expecting to get??? We were told at the time that RL laid out to panel in detail what his plans were.

Has TG interviewed any of the panel so that he can make the statement that the club realldidn't know what it was getting.

If not..it is just TG's opinion...and is as I said lazy journalism.

[iwantmeseats]

I read that article by Trevor Grant earlier this morning, and thought it was a large steaming pile of merde. Having taken the opportunity to re-read it, I think it's still a large steaming pile of merde.

When we kicked 6 goals in the first quarter last Friday night we looked entertaining.

When we kicked 7 or 8 goals in the first quarter against the Bulldogs we looked entertaining.

When we kicked 5 goals in the first quarter against Geelong we looked entertaining.


Anyone see a pattern here?


Sustaining the effort appears to be a problem for us, and rebounding when opposition slow our scoring is also a problem. Playing attacking footy as a goal in itself is not; our first quarters have generally been attacking (and thereby) entertaining, the Port match excepted.

I've no doubt under GT we were not defensive enough, and was hoping that's what RL would add to our group. He overdid it in the first half of 2007, then adjusted, and we were pretty good in the second half. This season, we are lacking confidence, run and precision, and other sides are exploiting that. It's not being dour that's our problem; it's being bold enough.

Yeah I see a pattern! We cant even string a half of footy together, let alone 4 quarters!! Pinning your hopes on this is insane!!! RL is a dud, sorry to say.

[Animal Enclosure]

I agree with the main point of the article.... that we are boring as bat shite to watch.

To make matters worse we are only getting over the worst sides in the competition and struggling immensely against the better sides.

Either Lyon is a coach that can move with the times & continually evolve his game plan/playing style or he is pig headed & will run the club right into the ground.

We're all sick of failure & many of us are scared to death that a great opportunity for sustained success has managed to slip from our grasp again. There's lots of people & egos to blame and we all know who they are.

I'm just so sick of it. If I didn't bleed red, white & black I'd just walk away.

Get your bloody act together Lyon. Get your damn team to start playing some inspiring footy. And keep Gram on a wing!

[WinnersOnly]

LYON latest comments -

“It’s an opinion business. Something is worth something if you value it. I’ve read it and I’ve moved on. To walk away from Friday night saying we’re playing slow, unattractive footy is a strange opinion,â€

[jonesy]

[quote="WinnersOnly"]LYON latest comments -

“It’s an opinion business. Something is worth something if you value it. I’ve read it and I’ve moved on. To walk away from Friday night saying we’re playing slow, unattractive footy is a strange opinion,â€