Problems are Deep

[CaughtLockettBowledWinmar]

Over 43 years of support and membership of St. Kilda, I cannot remember a time when there was such a fundamental problem apparent. I'm not sure it's right to blame the coach. I've seen every one since Alan Jeans and kicking them out rarely, if ever, provides the silver bullet. There has never been a culture at St.Kilda that players are prepared to fight for. Look no further than Collingwood for an example of what I mean.

[thejiggingsaint]

Then all the more reason to ask OURSELVES what the heck WE can do to solve the problem. A good start is to commit NOW to renewing our memberships for 09!! Bombard the club with our support and stop being happy to be victims!!!!!
I'm there next sundee with the attitude of supporting our club (loudly!!)
time to break the chains of negative attitude and to start believing we can win!!!

[CaughtLockettBowledWinmar]

I totally agree. Negativity achieves nothing, but I'm equally sickened by the blind faith of those who proclaim 'Hooray for everything in red, white and black'. The fans need to be heard by the players. Too often I feel we are just a noise on the other side of the fence. The culture of the club really lies with us over decades, and only infrequently with players whose tenure lasts a few years.

[saintsrus]

so may I ask what the apparent fundamental problem is?

[saintsRrising]

so may I ask what the apparent fundamental problem is?

1/ Too many players who think that we only have to hang around to to eventually win a Flag.
= lack of spirit and work ethic...as to many think it is just going to happen

2/ Dismal recruiting by and large post Waldron's departure


3/ Lack of the present coach engaging the players...but see 1/ and 2/

[Sainter_Boy]

Sainter_Dad here:

A loss of heart and a loss of soul.

When we were at Moorabbin all those years ago we had tin sheeting walls to pound on - even if we were losing you could hear us - we had an animal enclosure for our noisiest and most unruly supporters - we had older ladies with hand bags and umbrellas - I remember my mothers godmother 'suggesting' a tiger supporter would be more comfortable sitting away from Bay 8 at Moorabbin - with a look in her eye that said it was a good suggestion. Jokes were made about us as supporters - but at least we were known as supporters.

It infuriates me when we are at the dome and you hear the 'away' team more than OUR saint supporters - can anyone on this forum remember a time in the past 2 years that Saints supporters have threatened to burst the lid of the dome with their noise??????

I will say it again - and again - and again - polite clapping will not get YOUR boys over the line - we want players to leave it all on the field - we need supporters to leave the ground hoarse - win lose or draw. YOU have a role to fill - YOU need to let the players know why YOU turn up - YOU need to demand 110% effort - by giving 110% to the club with YOUR feet, YOUR hands and YOUR voice.

I say stand up and be counted - from the coach to the players, from the oldest supporter to the youngest, from the person who signs their child up as a cherub to the one whose dog is a pet patron.

Winning football requires every person to bleed Red, White and Black!!!!!

[Selhurst Saint]

Sainter_Dad here:

A loss of heart and a loss of soul.

When we were at Moorabbin all those years ago we had tin sheeting walls to pound on - even if we were losing you could hear us - we had an animal enclosure for our noisiest and most unruly supporters - we had older ladies with hand bags and umbrellas - I remember my mothers godmother 'suggesting' a tiger supporter would be more comfortable sitting away from Bay 8 at Moorabbin - with a look in her eye that said it was a good suggestion. Jokes were made about us as supporters - but at least we were known as supporters.

It infuriates me when we are at the dome and you hear the 'away' team more than OUR saint supporters - can anyone on this forum remember a time in the past 2 years that Saints supporters have threatened to burst the lid of the dome with their noise??????

I will say it again - and again - and again - polite clapping will not get YOUR boys over the line - we want players to leave it all on the field - we need supporters to leave the ground hoarse - win lose or draw. YOU have a role to fill - YOU need to let the players know why YOU turn up - YOU need to demand 110% effort - by giving 110% to the club with YOUR feet, YOUR hands and YOUR voice.

I say stand up and be counted - from the coach to the players, from the oldest supporter to the youngest, from the person who signs their child up as a cherub to the one whose dog is a pet patron.

Winning football requires every person to bleed Red, White and Black!!!!!

Excellent Post. For some reason the passion has drained out of us over the last few years. In years where we were on the bottom I always took great pride in how fanatical our supporters were.

We now complain how our players don't show the necessary committment and passion, the same qualities that the majority of supporters don't show themselves.

[CaughtLockettBowledWinmar]

If I knew the answer to that question.....
Lets look at a few underlying factors:

1. Ross Lyon was coach last year
1a. Ross Lyon still has no personality
2. The game plan looks no different
3. The second half of last season was pretty good
4. The injury excuse is no longer valid
5. We were widely predicted to finish top 4 (at least)
6. The list is at least as good as last year's
7. There are only 3 standout teams this year

So what's happened? Lost skills, lost passion, a mentality that says we're not good enough to win. I was there at the 1971 and 1997 grand finals and the story was the same - about 4 goals up at 3/4 time and the same look came over players faces. We're not supposed to win, therefore we won't.

The fundamenal problem doesn't necessarily lie with the players. Look at the leadership where presidents typically treat the club as an extension of their egos. Why else would Stan Alves and Grant Thomas get the arse when they have been clearly the best 2 coaches of the last 20 years? The fish rots from the head down. That's where the fundamental problem is.

[evertonfc]

I totally agree. Negativity achieves nothing, but I'm equally sickened by the blind faith of those who proclaim 'Hooray for everything in red, white and black'. The fans need to be heard by the players. Too often I feel we are just a noise on the other side of the fence. The culture of the club really lies with us over decades, and only infrequently with players whose tenure lasts a few years.

Sensational post.

I will always buy memberships and support the club, but sometimes you simply have to call a spade a spade.

[borderbarry]

I have been looking for a thread worth while making my 1000 post on. This is it.
I can remember a game at the Junction oval, we were the bottom team and had been for years. We were playing Melbourne who where the top team and had been for years. We had a first year coach named Killigrew. We were 11 points up at 3 quarter time, but the Red Legs were coming home with a strong wind at their backs. We fought and we fought and won by a point. The feeling in the crowd was similar to when we won the grand final. It was terrific. This is the sort of thing we need now. We need to get behind our players, support them. We are supposed to be supporters of the club, not knockers of the club. Come on.

[Animal Enclosure]

With all due respect our supporters do not lack passion and to say that the current rot being presented by 90% of the senior side is due to supporters clapping politely is absolute BS. The Dome was deafening during the 1st quarter against the Filth as we were playing some reasonable footy. It may have dropped off when we stopped attacking & tried to defend a 1 point lead with 3 quarters to go!

If anything the playing group needs to know that the supporters (members) that pay their wages are disillusioned and pretty p1ssed off. St.Kilda supporters want success & we hurt when it is taken from our grasp yet again.

[westy]

I reckon a major reason that teams got beaten over here in Perth by Wet Toast and the Dongers was because of their supporters noise. Any team good enough only had play above themselves in the first quarter and the opposition fans were silent. If the local fans ever regained their voices you could see their players lift. I have spent a number of unhappy hours at Subiaco.

Incidentally, I remember plenty of 'supporters' leaving Moorabbin when we were getting belted by all and sundry week after week. I was a kid at the time and could understand how anyone could leave their team when they needed support most. I still don't understand.

I agree, however, that we should all support the team, but surely there comes a time when the players have to extract their collective digits and start earning our respect

[spert]

Top post -Passion is what we have always loved at St. Kilda, but it's bloody well gone from some of the games I've been to this year -what a meek and mild bunch we have become -players and supporters.

I am slowly losing interest this year..what a horrible thing to say after all the years of supporting the Saints. I am really disappointed at the way we are heading. I was looking forward this season to Lyon hardening up the team to play solid percentage footy..but what we have is the total opposite -players have gone soft, our most consistant player seems to be a 35 yo veteran in his last year of AFL.

Young players like Armitage show some form and hope to me, but end up getting dropped and being replaced by a player like Fiora who has shown little if any form.

What the hell is going on!!

[Winmar7Fan]

Ah finally some realists coming out I've been making my point about problems within the club being the root of our lack of success for a while now and no ones wanted to even go there.

As ive said us older supporters who go back a long way have understood this for a long time and i'll keep saying that we'll keep floundering along like this for as long as we want to continue the band aid affect of replacing coaches and players and not inject a total change of attitude within the whole club .

So what do we do ? Well for a start do the players still run and control the club like they did 10 years ago ( as i'm sure im not the only one who knows they did ) ?