Forward line Question

[BigMart]

I am no expert (Teflon )

But it would seem to me, that Riewoldt and Kosi should not be in each others pocket in the F50.....and contesting against each other.....like they did 20 times yesterday....and they need to be moving targets...

and that Milne should be a crumbing player, as should Schnieder....

and we should not play a 3 man fwd line vs 6 defenders.....because after a 50/50 contest, we only have a 33% chance of winning the ball...

BTW - the coaching yesterday, was the worst I have seen at St.K since 2000....

Who should be more effective

Welsh & Hahn
or
Riewoldt and Kosi

[meher baba]

I'm with you Big M, I don't get it either

It isn't something the swans do, so we can't blame it on them

Is it about trying to get kosi in as the third man in a contest?

If so, it certainly aint working

Meher baffled

[maverick]

Agree 100% on this.
Our forward line, whether its delivery or ability of the forwards, it must be close to the worst in the league at the moment.

Possibly Melbourne's and West Coast are worse.

Also agree on the coaching, I think Timmy might end up a better coach...

[Red]

We don't use the players who aren't being marked. Tend to focus on

Roo and Kosi and that makes us too predictable. Plenty of times yesterday

there were other options but the midfield dismissed them.

[Furphy]

The main problem is the ball is being kicked haphazardly into the forward line usually resulting in uncontested posessions to the opposition, who quickly run the ball into their forward line.

[Otiman]

If it's 3 vs 6, then we should have 3 free players somewhere. Use them.

As bad as the delivery is into the forward line, the forward structure is hopeless. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns here and sort things out. It aint Barker.

[bigcarl]

giving roo and kosi space is the right way to go, but we need guys like milne and schneider to capitalise on the crumbs.

we need a medium forward to provide an alternative and if ferg isn't the answer i'd try gilbert in this role when he becomes available.

having said that, nothing is going to work when our delivery is so haphazard and under as much pressure as the dogs were able to apply.

however akermanis was very much the difference between the sides yesterday. they had a forward who could put a score on the board; we didn't.

[barks4eva]

I am no expert (Teflon )

But it would seem to me, that Riewoldt and Kosi should not be in each others pocket in the F50.....and contesting against each other.....like they did 20 times yesterday....and they need to be moving targets...

and that Milne should be a crumbing player, as should Schnieder....

and we should not play a 3 man fwd line vs 6 defenders.....because after a 50/50 contest, we only have a 33% chance of winning the ball...

BTW - the coaching yesterday, was the worst I have seen at St.K since 2000....

Who should be more effective

Welsh & Hahn
or
Riewoldt and Kosi

Agree 100%


Questions need to be asked about the appointment of a completely untried John Barker as our forward coach,

on the surface it appears as if knows SFA, no experience whatsoever

I'd rather Marto down there and I'm sure he'd do it for half the money and I am FAIR DINKUM

Why Lyon persists with Kossie and Riewoldt together in the forwardline when it really hasn't worked for a season and a half has got me stuffed.

I'd have Kossie down back for starters.

[Otiman]

Questions need to be asked about the appointment of a completely untried John Barker as our forward coach,

More questions need to be asked as to why he was not replaced or given extra help when it was clear (quite early) that he was struggling with the appointment.

Ross is all about putting someone in their job and trusting them to do it. This works well, unless you do it to someone who is incompetent. They need help or training, and throwing them into the deep end isn't going to solve anything.

[Teflon]

I am no expert (Teflon )

You had me at "hello".....

and yes....your every bit the expert....on Monday....but thats ok cause you've got your fans...

cheers for the fwd line 'insight" BigBoy but why no mention of how the footy was coming in to that fwd line??????......surely a tactical guru like you would know that it also impacts the way a fwd line functions .....yeah?

I await my next "Inside Footy with BigMart" installment....

[jonesy]

Somewhat perplexing how Barker got a gig. The bloke couldn't even kick for goal. Remember his shots at goal? They used to swing reverse from the natural curve...can't remember if he was a right or left footer,but his kicking was irish.
At least get someone down there who knew how to kick for goal

[BigMart]

Very good 'Teffers'

Yes the disposal forward of the centre was woeful, but the OP was about the forwards, so I will keep my analysis to the players in the front half...

But if you have ever played the game, and you have run through the middle with the ball, and there is ZERO movement and just two talls in each others way in the Goal Square....then the temptation to BOMB...is going to take over....everytime Gram, Montagna, Jones, Lenny, S.Fisher bombed the ball deep, there was Kosi and Roo contesting (against each other)......surely if they were mobile and presenting, bombing would not be required by the Mids...

Kosi rarely got on his bike.....and when Roo was needed to influence the game in the third, he hardley left the F50......

[Otiman]

Koschitzke and Riewoldt have lived off raw talent long enough. It's time they learn to tow the line with regards to strategy and structure.

Koschitzke has shown maybe one or two good leads this year, the rest he has tried to rely on beating 3 blokes + Riewoldt in a pack contest.

The forward line needs to divide and conquer.

[joffaboy]

Forward line seemed OK in qtr when the team was winning the contests around the stoppages.

It was the incredibly poor skills, kicking at goal that let us down.

3.6 was appalling.

The ball after that was bombed in with atrocious disposal and accuracy.

WTF is wrong with Jason Gram? If it is not being shanked it is a mongrel helicopter mongrel bastard thing that a combination of Plugger/Dunstall/Carey wouldn't be able to take.

And where the F*** was Milne. Even when he bothered to wonder into the forward line, was not front and centre once at a contest, or has that gone out of fashion nowdays?

[plugger66]

Forward line seemed OK in qtr when the team was winning the contests around the stoppages.

It was the incredibly poor skills, kicking at goal that let us down.

3.6 was appalling.

The ball after that was bombed in with atrocious disposal and accuracy.

WTF is wrong with Jason Gram? If it is not being shanked it is a mongrel helicopter mongrel bastard thing that a combination of Plugger/Dunstall/Carey wouldn't be able to take.

And where the F*** was Milne. Even when he bothered to wonder into the forward line, was not front and centre once at a contest, or has that gone out of fashion nowdays?

It doesnt help also that it was 5 saints players against 6 Bulldogs because we want an extra man in the backline. Lake had a field day.

[joffaboy]

It doesnt help also that it was 5 saints players against 6 Bulldogs because we want an extra man in the backline. Lake had a field day.

So having one less in the forward line affects our hard ball gets and clearances?

Having an extra man in defence for the Dogs affect the way the ball is poorly delivered? Affects the way that Gram shanks the thing 9 times out of ten? Affects the way Riewolt cant kick over a jam tin? Affect the fact tat from 17 inside 50's in the first qtr we score 3.6?

Some untouchables in our team, it would seem.

[plugger66]

It doesnt help also that it was 5 saints players against 6 Bulldogs because we want an extra man in the backline. Lake had a field day.

So having one less in the forward line affects our hard ball gets and clearances?

Having an extra man in defence for the Dogs affect the way the ball is poorly delivered? Affects the way that Gram shanks the thing 9 times out of ten? Affects the way Riewolt cant kick over a jam tin? Affect the fact tat from 17 inside 50's in the first qtr we score 3.6?

Some untouchables in our team, it would seem.

Not making excuses for the players just stating something I see every game. Are you happy with that tatic?

[joffaboy]

Not making excuses for the players just stating something I see every game. Are you happy with that tatic?

Obviously it didn't work. However if they had an extra in defence, we must have. How come they hit targets with pinpoint accuracy going into our defence all day but our forwards were slaughtered with crappy delivery.

But even when they got a mark they missed absolute soda's.

Every time there was a ball up in the second and third qtrs the Dogs ran off us. We were smashed in our slow midfield, then got smashed by our pathetic delivery and bombing it into the forward line. We had two talls up there but every time it hit the ground Milne was nowhere to be seen, then the Dogs would use their superior skills to run it out of defence and hit their forwards with AFL type passing and delivery.

Now plugger like you I am not making excuses for Lyon. He has to take responsibility for the shambles of a team. The skills a re deplorable, the mids positioning atrocious, kicking for goal laughable, and game time reaction to getting flogged slow and ineffective.

I just find it strange that all these other thing aren't taken into account when looking at Kosi and Riewoldt.

[Dis Believer]

WE have a forward line???
When did this happen??
Next you'll tell me we have a 2nd tier midfield and a system.....ppfftttt

[SaintBot]

Riewoldt and Koschitzke need to watch some Brisbane games.

Paul Hudson has Brown and Bradshaw working brilliantly together, with together being the key word. Why Nick and Justin continually are going up in the same contests all game, every game is one of the reasons behind our lack of options.

The Lions' duo work together as a team, one drags his opponent to a pocket, while the other leads up the middle. It is fantastic to see such teamwork and willingness to sacrifice a personal shot on goal if it means your teammate gets a better chance.

We should be making a huge push to get Hudson down to Moorabbin next season as he is certainly doing something right up at Brisbane.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

okay so lets say they chuck kosi down back

who does he play on against sydney then???? what is a good match up for him???

[Teflon]

Some good points in this thread.

I agree the fwd line isnt functioning and Brisbane is an excellent example of that. Im also convinced that the fwd line looked a lot better in the first qtr (aside from shyte goal kicking) and as Joffa pointed out the reason was cause we won stoppages/clearances and moved it inside 50 with some speed and for a qtr COULD his a target. I read today our kicking efficiency after qtr time was 50%....thats deplorable.

we need to maintain rage in winning contested footy.
we need some run/carry from mids
we need a functioning fwd line (new forward coach I think)

I thought our backs for a good while held their own but under so much pressure you can only do so much.