SACK Ross the dud

[Stephen Theodore]

Thankfully, as it turns out, the game wasnt live up here, and the replay isnt on till midnight, so I am not as fired up as I would have been if I had seen the game live.

I am also not convinced that Lyon is the long term man for the job, BUT, I am also not convinced that he is the sole problem at Moorabin. In my opinion there are Saint players that have not stepped up to the next level this season, and maybe they dont have another level to step upto. In other words the list has been overated, which seems to be what a fair few of the commentators have been saying for the last month or so.

I do believe that Lyon has had a rethink on his game plan, and that is confusing the crap out of not only the playing group, but also the coaching group. There does not seen to be a tunnel vision plan, unlike a team like Brisbane, who admittedly I see a fair bit of. You can see exactly what Matthews has set out tom do over the last few years, and it looks like its starting to reap the rewards.

[Sainternist]

Next season, I would be trying my darndest to lure Malthouse over.

YES! Would be 100% behind this, if it happened. Even if he's coaching the filth... a superb coach.
Always thought we should have got him immediately after he departed W.A.

[St. Luke]

I hear Spida wants out of the Swans and would like to coach a side

[st.byron]

I

We need to something. We have some fabulous players who are being destroyed by a totally inept coach. Look at Riewoldt, look at Kosi, look at Dal, even BJ and Grammy. It's a disgrace!!
.

Since when has Koschitzke been a fabulous player? Over-rated and under-performed. A complete disappointment. Nowhere near fabulous. Struggling to scrape into GOP ranks.

[meher baba]

I

We need to something. We have some fabulous players who are being destroyed by a totally inept coach. Look at Riewoldt, look at Kosi, look at Dal, even BJ and Grammy. It's a disgrace!!
.

Since when has Koschitzke been a fabulous player? Over-rated and under-performed. A complete disappointment. Nowhere near fabulous. Struggling to scrape into GOP ranks.

He was an absolute champion in a four game streak in 2005 and he also looked ok before Giansicura brutally took him out in 2006.

He's currently fitter than he's been for years and yet, I agree, has been struggling to perform at the level of a GOP.

I'd probably suggest that his current poor form arises from the fact that he has never recovered form Giansicura's hit. Except that he's not alone: most of our senior list - Ball and Hayes being the major exceptions - are in shocking form ATM. And they weren't all cleaned up by Giansicura a couple of years ago......

[St Fidelius]

He was an absolute champion in a four game streak in 2005 and he also looked ok before Giansicura brutally took him out in 2006.

He's currently fitter than he's been for years and yet, I agree, has been struggling to perform at the level of a GOP.

I'd probably suggest that his current poor form arises from the fact that he has never recovered form Giansicura's hit. Except that he's not alone: most of our senior list - Ball and Hayes being the major exceptions - are in shocking form ATM. And they weren't all cleaned up by Giansicura a couple of years ago......

Players are not labeled champions in four straight games.....

How can anyone suggest that Kosi has not recovered from Giansicura's hit is beyond belief....

The simple fact is confidence, and if they are down in it,they fold like a pack of cards...

The coaching staff is responsible for confidence and should have had this addressed many weeks ago...

The simple fact it was addressed by the previous coaching staff with players responding to simple tests after games and the issue would be addressed straight away...

The previous coaching staff ran these key performance test regularly and if there was a problem, it was addressed swiftly...

You don't need to be Einstein to work out that the players are down in confidence, what needs to be asked is what the coaching staff is doing about it????

[st.byron]

He was an absolute champion in a four game streak in 2005 and he also looked ok before Giansicura brutally took him out in 2006.

He's currently fitter than he's been for years and yet, I agree, has been struggling to perform at the level of a GOP.

I'd probably suggest that his current poor form arises from the fact that he has never recovered form Giansicura's hit. Except that he's not alone: most of our senior list - Ball and Hayes being the major exceptions - are in shocking form ATM. And they weren't all cleaned up by Giansicura a couple of years ago......

Fork me there's a lot of dodging and weaving that goes on in the name of not calling a spade a spade re Koschitzke. You acknowledge that he's struggling to make a GOP but then go on to say that the reason is the hit from Giansiracusa. Pull the other one Meher. That's two years ago. Irrelevant. He's had an extended run of games without injury and done little more than bugger all. People want to cling on to this idea that Koschitzke's a superstar. He isn't.

[Sainter_Dad]

Aussie Jones as a backline/offensive coach.
Aaron Hammill as a forward line/defensive coach.
Robert Harvey as a playing midfield coach.

Done Done and Done!

SAINTERS for EVER

The main coach as a figure head (don't care who RL included)

[hilairehinshelwood]

Fair enough that's your opinion, but if you want to make a statement like that then answer my question.
In fact all the people that want Lyon gone, answer the following question.


IF the club sacked Ross Lyon all be it tomorrow or at seasons end.
Give me a replacement? and why?

I just don't want a name, I want to hear why that replacement would be your choice.

As well as being infatuated with nick dal santo you have another infatuation with ross lyon too, it seems. A bit rich of you to demand reason and explaination, when you carry the bias and irrationality that goes with such crushes.

Any past coach of an AFL team would get more than the 50% ross lyon gets with this list. It's clear to see lyons tactical confusion from one quarter to the next in any game you care to watch.

lyon's tactics don't work against the top eight sides, and it's his job to motivate the players. A season and a half is long enough for anyone who is impartial, to work out that lyon is a dudd, why waste time persisting with him.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

I would sack him this week, and act SOS in the job until the end of the season. That'll do for now.

Next season, I would be trying my darndest to lure Malthouse over. Or Choco. Or even Sheeds. Or, failing all those, lure Bundy back (as I have suggested before to near universal ridicule. But what the heck.)

We need to something. We have some fabulous players who are being destroyed by a totally inept coach. Look at Riewoldt, look at Kosi, look at Dal, even BJ and Grammy. It's a disgrace!!

Those associated with the club who can't see it - and I fear that Greg Westaway is one of them - are going to have to shape up or ship out.

but what the heck???

what the heck runs a football club and what the heck makes things happen???

HECK OFF

[SainterX]

Nathan Burke, Danny Frawley, Stewart Loewe.

Replace RL now so they can get some experience with our guys before the end of the season, rather then only having an off season to do it.

Outside coaches never seem to work with us, maybe it really is the culture. Perhaps these 3, and as a smokie, Nicky Winmar could show our blokes what being a Saint and bleeding to be a Saint really means.

[Doug36]

[quote="meher baba"]I would sack him this week, and act SOS in the job until the end of the season. That'll do for now.

quote]

I would of thought Greg Hutchinson would have been a better choice then SOS if Lyon is sacked mid season (not that I agree that sacking a coach mid season is the right choice).

Hutchinson knows the younger players and is doing a very good job at Casey.

[congorozides]

Fair enough that's your opinion, but if you want to make a statement like that then answer my question.
In fact all the people that want Lyon gone, answer the following question.


IF the club sacked Ross Lyon all be it tomorrow or at seasons end.
Give me a replacement? and why?

I just don't want a name, I want to hear why that replacement would be your choice.

k sheedy
m voss
b gotch
g mckenna
d hardwick

apart from being paul roos assistant - show me 1 piece of evidence that lyon can coach? 1/ name just 1 thing he has done that has diplayed the possibility that he knows what he is doing.

the team structures and selection ar poor and unimaginative
the skills are poor
the playesr do no want to compete and get their own ball
the players have no passion or competitive spirit
the swan rejects he bought with him are both duds as well
every player on the list has stayed the same or gone backwards
the "so called" style of play crap is a complete toss. footy is not that complicated. you need to move it fast and score when you have it. and run hard and tackle when they have it. i dont want to hear anyone crapping on about 'adjusting to RL's style of play. its a total flog.

peple who keep defeding him and every other hack on the list are just making it worse by ignoring just how bad things are. ignoring it and putting your heads in the sand and claiming you are a true blue suupporter does not help the situation will not make it go away!

we need to face where we are and deal with it. we are in a terrible place.
2nd oldest list in the AFL and playing boring terrible insipid football.

[matrix]

said it before....
we will not win a premiership under ross lyon.

however.....
sacking him now i dont agree with,...and im thinking of player morale here. (which is prob low enough as it is, we dont need another sacking of the coach display imo)

also im starting to agree with a few around here with some of the players having to go....

[congorozides]

No need to Sack Lyon, needs time to find his feet.

It was a mistake to recruit a rookie coach to take us "to the next level". However, he is the best guy for the job, and will bring us success in the future. The sooner he gives up on scraping into the finals in '08, the better.

you are in fairlyland.
give me 1 reason why he is "the best man for the job"

Sheedy could coach still for sure. sure he was stale at the bombers and his time was up. but a year out of the game. the guy is a proven performer. and hes not too old. look at alex ferguson who just won the treble again this year. so dont tell me he is too old. imagine sheeds with a young assistant - say damian haardwick

now if u think lyon and his bunch of nobodys are better than sheedy/hardwick combo ill just laugh at you.

[congorozides]

I

We need to something. We have some fabulous players who are being destroyed by a totally inept coach. Look at Riewoldt, look at Kosi, look at Dal, even BJ and Grammy. It's a disgrace!!
.

Since when has Koschitzke been a fabulous player? Over-rated and under-performed. A complete disappointment. Nowhere near fabulous. Struggling to scrape into GOP ranks.

kosi is just not that good. hes dopey. and wears blinkers. constantly running the wrong way or injuring himnself.

[barks4eva]

I would sack him this week, and act SOS in the job until the end of the season. That'll do for now.

Yeah righto

lure Bundy back (as I have suggested before to near universal ridicule. But what the heck.)

You mean the guy who went a long way to creating the mess in the first place.

It was Rendell's decision to draft Brooks, not forgetting we gave up not just pick 6 in the National draft but threw in 31 also just to clinch the deal

It was also Rendell's decision to draft Ackland and Guerra.

Recruiting has stuffed our list, this is why we are in this predicament to begin with and Rendell was largely responsible for this mess, u fair dinkum cabbage.

We need to something. We have some fabulous players who are being destroyed by a totally inept coach. Look at Riewoldt, look at Kosi, look at Dal, even BJ and Grammy. It's a disgrace!!

Every team has "some fabulous" players

Fact is ours are way overrated, the fact is that no team's elite players can carry an ordinary middle of the road team and regretfully, due to poor recruiting and list building that is all we are.

Our side yesterday

Ferguson
L.Fisher
Gwilt
Dempster
Birss
Schneider
Geary
Blake


8 out of 22 are either kids or cabbages

Those associated with the club who can't see it - and I fear that Greg Westaway is one of them - are going to have to shape up or ship out.

yeah righto



I havn't got my blinkers on, there are things that really piss me off, such as

IMHO

Kossie should be tried at CHB or in defence in some role, just to see how that changes the structure, he can read the play much better from defence

Gram should be played on a wing, he is not a defender and I know the reasons for playing him there but , I firmly believe his run would be far more damaging from the wing as a link man, PARTICULARLY so if he doesn't shank 75% of his kicks, with his now customary wobbly punts

Ferguson should be played in the forwardline, didn't take long for Lyon to switch him back to defence

McEvoy should be given game time

L.Fisher is VFL standard, is a waste of time and space along with at least half a dozen others who continually persisted with, largely due to the fact that we don't have that many players to replace them with, and why is that?

Recruiting, which was pissed up against the wall by, in your opinion the Isacc Newton of game plans, boy wonder Bundy

Rendell couldn't even read out the correct player code number at last years national draft, which should have seen Adelaide forfeit their selection but for the AFL changing the rules on the run.

and you want this cabbage back as coach, you mebabble are a fair dinkum numbnut


Fact is we have too many slow players
too many unskilled player's who couldn't hit a wheat silo from 20 metres
too many players who make incredibly dumb decision's


Another criticism I have of Lyon is selecting Riewoldt as captain ahead of Lenny Hayes, that imho is a disgrace

The sooner we abandon this trying to sneak into the 8 policy by continually selecting players that will not be a part of our next premiership and start by playing kids who might actually give us an upside at some time in the future the better

A coach is only as good as the cattle he has at his disposal and we just don't have it, it's that simple

Grant Thomas would be faring no better with our CURRENT LIST and that's just stating the obvious, if you disagree, then IMFDHFO you are a numbnut.


Recruiting, it gets back to recruiting, the lifeblood of any football club, stuff it up for a few years running and it will bite you big time.

We need to rebuild, in the meantime it would be nice if the player's we now have, hit a target every once in a while

FAIR DINKUM

[matrix]

[desertsaint]

Not normally into sacking anyone before their contract but had to agree with my wife watching the replay last night - she turned to me dismayed and said 'they've got to get rid of him before he does more damage'

[Dis Believer]

'they've got to get rid of him before he does more damage'

The quote that sums up our current situation - in 30 years I have never called for a coach to be sacked until now, but the lesson of Timid is still too fresh in my mind to let this go on until the hole is so deep we cannot climb out of it, for pity's sake the guy is going backwards and picking up speed.

A comment was made to me at yesterdays game that the more he speaks to the team, the worse they seem to get (as in 1/4 time, 1/2 time, 3/4 time). I have no idea what he is doing, which matters not a jot, but the real problem is that our players seem to have an equal understanding to mine.

[meher baba]

Recruiting has stuffed our list, this is why we are in this predicament to begin with and Rendell was largely responsible for this mess, u fair dinkum cabbage.

Interesting, I thought you believed that it was largely GT's fault..?

Our side yesterday

Ferguson
L.Fisher
Gwilt
Dempster
Birss
Schneider
Geary
Blake


8 out of 22 are either kids or cabbages

And 5 of these were either recruited or re-recruited under Lyon, not GT and Bundy.

I havn't got my blinkers on, there are things that really piss me off, such as

IMHO

Kossie should be tried at CHB or in defence in some role, just to see how that changes the structure, he can read the play much better from defence

Yes, I totally agree with you on this point. Kossie's marking skills and body strength at CHB might be able to help us to straighten up when we are bringing the ball out of defence into attack. It is far from certain to work, but it has to be worth a try.

Gram should be played on a wing, he is not a defender and I know the reasons for playing him there but , I firmly believe his run would be far more damaging from the wing as a link man, PARTICULARLY so if he doesn't shank 75% of his kicks, with his now customary wobbly punts

Gram's best role is the one in which he starred in 2006 and for some of 2007. He is badly out of form and possibly hampered by niggling injury. He needs either to get his form back, or get out.

I wouldn't put him on the wing. I don't want to see the ball going wide any more than it does now. The top teams ATM - the Hawthorns, Geelongs and Bulldogs - predominantly move the ball quickly up the guts, not out wide. Gram used to be able to do this. Perhaps with the right help he can start doing it again.

Ferguson should be played in the forwardline, didn't take long for Lyon to switch him back to defence

Just isn't up to AFL standard in any position IMO.

McEvoy should be given game time

Maybe, I've never seen him play

L.Fisher is VFL standard, is a waste of time and space

He didn't used to be. He too could help us move the ball out of defence better, if he was used in his best position.

Recruiting, which was pissed up against the wall by, in your opinion the Isacc Newton of game plans, boy wonder Bundy

Rendell couldn't even read out the correct player code number at last years national draft, which should have seen Adelaide forfeit their selection but for the AFL changing the rules on the run.

and you want this cabbage back as coach, you mebabble are a fair dinkum numbnut

If Bundy was such a cabbage, then I take it you are suggesting that GT was the coaching genius.

Someone certainly must have been, because a roughly similar list (without Lenny Hayes) played a far better brand of football back in 2006: by which time Penny, Jones, Hamill and Black were gone or close to gone and Powell and Peckett were mostly playing VFL. And this was in a season in which we had more players missing with injury, far few games at our home ground, and a ludicrously unfair number of 6 day breaks between matches.

The biggest cabbage we have ever seen at our club was Rod Butterss, who sacked a successful coach and brought in a clueless goose. I loved the way that Andrew Plympton was attempting to "mentor" RB towards the end: Plympton was the second biggest cabbage in our history in bringing in Watson to replace Alves and then Blight to replace Watson. But at least he had the excuse that Alves had lost some or all of the players.......

You suggested that GT wouldn't have done any better with the current list. But he wouldn't be using the current list. He wouldn't be trying to turn every player in the club into a tagger and playing Dal Santo and BJ in the backline. He would be trying to get the team to take the ball up the guts as quickly as possible and take some risks to get the ball between the sticks. And he'd be encouraging players to go for the man with ball, not running along beside them as if they were both on an early morning jog.

As you say so well, FAIR DINKUM.

[Mooksy]

Terry Daniher.........because he can coach.

Funny you say that. Because I know for a fact the reason he was booted from numerous clubs is because he provided ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the box on game day.

So nice suggestion that one.

[St.Kenny]

Barks you've done enough damage mate ....please find another club and take Chancy 'Gardener' with you. It amazes me how you and your anti GT faction clutch at straws after applauding the recruitment of Gardener, King, Schneider, Lyon etc ,all who have done SFA for St.Kilda. It annoys me no end how you continualy spout on about other people (way closer to the action than you) not making decisions you would have made as coach /recruirer/president etc. Its an affront to intelligence to show your snout on this site along with all the other goons who have brought this club to its knees and continually bang on about the direction of this club.

[Armoooo]

Terry Daniher.........because he can coach.

Funny you say that. Because I know for a fact the reason he was booted from numerous clubs is because he provided ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the box on game day.

So nice suggestion that one.

Yeah I met him a few years back and he said that he has no intention to EVER coach at AFL level because he personally didn't feel he would ever be up to it, he said that he would rather be involved at grass level football...

[bergsone]

Who if any on our list has improved because of RL,as i am struggling to find any