Grant Thomas on umpiring .........
" The width of interpretation within our umpiring system has reached gulf-like proportions. They can never be wrong in making a decision because the rule allows them to interpret against very broad parameters and the "interpretation" changes year by year, game by game, quarter by quarter and contest by contest. What is "ample time" in one man's eyes is "he had no chance" in another's; what is "he dragged it in" in one circumstance is "no, you held it to him" in another; "pushed him in the back in the tackle" or "you fell forward yourself".
mmmmmmm
Grant Thomas on umpiring .........
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aussiejones
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perfectionist
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GrumpyOne
You will never get completely uniform interpretation as the circumstances vary with every tackle. Any rule that has to combine an opinion of the intent of both players with a judgement of reasonable time and correct method of disposal is difficult to enforce. Add that to the fact that the play might not stop when a tackle is made, and you will get mistakes.
Its the nature of our game. The only way you will get close to 100% accuracy in decisions is to turn our game into Basketball or American Football.
Let's get off the umpires' backs. The game is still better umpired than not, and most incorrect decisions balance themselves out over the course of a game.
Its the nature of our game. The only way you will get close to 100% accuracy in decisions is to turn our game into Basketball or American Football.
Let's get off the umpires' backs. The game is still better umpired than not, and most incorrect decisions balance themselves out over the course of a game.
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markp
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I think they over-umpire the game at the moment, and in most man on man infringements they should only be payed if the player is impeded by the action...
But can someone tell me why if you brush across the top of a players shoulder or face with a feather while they're standing it's around the neck, but if they're on the ground in a pack you can get them in a headlock and it's play on??
But can someone tell me why if you brush across the top of a players shoulder or face with a feather while they're standing it's around the neck, but if they're on the ground in a pack you can get them in a headlock and it's play on??
here's his complete article in case you missed it....
"A considered opinion from Grant Thomas-media commentator, on www.wwos.msn.com.au from today.
Worth a read
Umpire Department - Warning Light On 4/08/2008 10:35:00 AM, Grant Thomas Next
The Umpire Department is in drastic need of a service – or better still a completely new engine! Life provides plenty of signals that allow us to adapt and improve. Last week my car threw a flashing warning signal at me – it was in need of a service. Many years ago we would not have had the privilege of a warning – the beast would just cease up and stop.
Fortunately today's technology allows critical information to be fed to a central analysing system that determines the best course of action. Could you imagine what would happen if our engine system possessed a personality - and much worse were precious, unaccountable and with an ego that was fuelled by everything around them?
The system would ignore all vital signals, it would consider itself the most important part of the vehicle and push on regardless.
Or maybe even worse the system would evaluate the situation and never ever be wrong because the system could interpret the situation whichever way they wanted - effectively it would always be correct because of the breadth of the diagnosis option.
The width of interpretation within our umpiring system has reached gulf-like proportions. They can never be wrong in making a decision because the rule allows them to interpret against very broad parameters and the "interpretation" changes year by year, game by game, quarter by quarter and contest by contest. What is "ample time" in one man's eyes is "he had no chance" in another's; what is "he dragged it in" in one circumstance is "no, you held it to him" in another; "pushed him in the back in the tackle" or "you fell forward yourself".
Unfortunately the outcome can be catastrophic to players and teams.
Having had the advantage to sit on the "other side of the fence" for a year or so I have watched with a keen eye the performance of the umpires department. I have also had the benefit of watching my sons play football – one in the TAC and one in local Under 11's.
The state of play in relation to umpires is comprehensively poor.
Unfortunately the same theatre is starting to evolve in the junior ranks with umpires perfecting the "holding the ball" theatrics to a tee. There seems to be more focus on how you look than how you adjudicate. Interestingly the action imitates "dropping the ball" which is no longer a rule. I vividly remember asking Jeff Gieschen why the "dropping the ball" action was to be retained by the umpires I was astounded to hear that: the crowds really enjoy it, the umpires like it and it provided some great anticipation and theatre to the game.
Well I am really happy for them. I am so glad that they are able to get a little "lift" out of ruling on a free kick – you know... provide a little added benefit for the unsung heroes, shrinking violets, humble, selfless referees of the game.
Apologies for the sarcasm and back to the real issue.
Why are the umpires made to look like fools with their theatrics? It's not the way I would attempt to popularise a career with waning support. They are payed exceptionally well and full-time professional status seems to be a foregone conclusion which will further increase their already sizeable package.
On the downside they are totally unaccountable. Answerable only to their hierarchy who go out of their way to defend their actions and pay lip service to feedback especially from coaches and players. Protect any group from constructive feedback and advice and you can treble the external frustration and vitriol.
The entire structure is fundamentally flawed, drastically needs rejuvenation and a change of branding which will over time revitalise public perceptions. This cannot possibly occur with the current leadership. There are rumours of internal bickering and disputes over strategic direction and management.
Umpiring should be a great career, eagerly sought and competitively acquired. Unfortunately it is pigeon holed as a job not to be sought after that attracts certain individuals and with that comes ridicule and little respect.
Surely the AFL will look at the public perception and realise that their fining regime, gagging philosophy and umpire promotion strategy just aint working.
Many clubs have recently been through very stringent and sensitive feedback strategies to improve external perceptions in relation to respect and professionalism. Most of the future modelling as a result of their findings would revolve around honesty, respect, selflessness and humility.
It would do the AFL well to implement the same process within the umpiring department. Maybe, just maybe the AFL could sit in on a few of the sessions.
"A considered opinion from Grant Thomas-media commentator, on www.wwos.msn.com.au from today.
Worth a read
Umpire Department - Warning Light On 4/08/2008 10:35:00 AM, Grant Thomas Next
The Umpire Department is in drastic need of a service – or better still a completely new engine! Life provides plenty of signals that allow us to adapt and improve. Last week my car threw a flashing warning signal at me – it was in need of a service. Many years ago we would not have had the privilege of a warning – the beast would just cease up and stop.
Fortunately today's technology allows critical information to be fed to a central analysing system that determines the best course of action. Could you imagine what would happen if our engine system possessed a personality - and much worse were precious, unaccountable and with an ego that was fuelled by everything around them?
The system would ignore all vital signals, it would consider itself the most important part of the vehicle and push on regardless.
Or maybe even worse the system would evaluate the situation and never ever be wrong because the system could interpret the situation whichever way they wanted - effectively it would always be correct because of the breadth of the diagnosis option.
The width of interpretation within our umpiring system has reached gulf-like proportions. They can never be wrong in making a decision because the rule allows them to interpret against very broad parameters and the "interpretation" changes year by year, game by game, quarter by quarter and contest by contest. What is "ample time" in one man's eyes is "he had no chance" in another's; what is "he dragged it in" in one circumstance is "no, you held it to him" in another; "pushed him in the back in the tackle" or "you fell forward yourself".
Unfortunately the outcome can be catastrophic to players and teams.
Having had the advantage to sit on the "other side of the fence" for a year or so I have watched with a keen eye the performance of the umpires department. I have also had the benefit of watching my sons play football – one in the TAC and one in local Under 11's.
The state of play in relation to umpires is comprehensively poor.
Unfortunately the same theatre is starting to evolve in the junior ranks with umpires perfecting the "holding the ball" theatrics to a tee. There seems to be more focus on how you look than how you adjudicate. Interestingly the action imitates "dropping the ball" which is no longer a rule. I vividly remember asking Jeff Gieschen why the "dropping the ball" action was to be retained by the umpires I was astounded to hear that: the crowds really enjoy it, the umpires like it and it provided some great anticipation and theatre to the game.
Well I am really happy for them. I am so glad that they are able to get a little "lift" out of ruling on a free kick – you know... provide a little added benefit for the unsung heroes, shrinking violets, humble, selfless referees of the game.
Apologies for the sarcasm and back to the real issue.
Why are the umpires made to look like fools with their theatrics? It's not the way I would attempt to popularise a career with waning support. They are payed exceptionally well and full-time professional status seems to be a foregone conclusion which will further increase their already sizeable package.
On the downside they are totally unaccountable. Answerable only to their hierarchy who go out of their way to defend their actions and pay lip service to feedback especially from coaches and players. Protect any group from constructive feedback and advice and you can treble the external frustration and vitriol.
The entire structure is fundamentally flawed, drastically needs rejuvenation and a change of branding which will over time revitalise public perceptions. This cannot possibly occur with the current leadership. There are rumours of internal bickering and disputes over strategic direction and management.
Umpiring should be a great career, eagerly sought and competitively acquired. Unfortunately it is pigeon holed as a job not to be sought after that attracts certain individuals and with that comes ridicule and little respect.
Surely the AFL will look at the public perception and realise that their fining regime, gagging philosophy and umpire promotion strategy just aint working.
Many clubs have recently been through very stringent and sensitive feedback strategies to improve external perceptions in relation to respect and professionalism. Most of the future modelling as a result of their findings would revolve around honesty, respect, selflessness and humility.
It would do the AFL well to implement the same process within the umpiring department. Maybe, just maybe the AFL could sit in on a few of the sessions.
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
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GrumpyOne
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st.byron
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Mr Magic
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You left a word out of your post but I added it in for you.st.byron wrote:that and block access to this week's threads on umpiring. Haven't seen such a lot of deserved venting from so many for ages.Mr Magic wrote:Maybe we should instigate an email campaign to Geischen telling him that GT is not part of our Club anymore?
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markp
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When the pr!ck paid that outrageous free against blake on the wing in the last for holding the man, he stuck his hip out, bent his head to one side, pulled on his shirt and froze like he was Michael Jackson waiting for the freakin music to start.... they are total ponces.meher baba wrote:Is it really true that the holding the ball signal is deliberately theatrical?
Oh my, I almost feel ashamed to be an AFL fan
Thomas has always been right about the umps. The current culture is all wrong. The best sporting officials are invisible
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GrumpyOne
What would be the tune.... Beat It or I'm Bad?markp wrote:When the pr!ck paid that outrageous free against blake on the wing in the last for holding the man, he stuck his hip out, bent his head to one side, pulled on his shirt and froze like he was Michael Jackson waiting for the freakin music to start.... they are total ponces.meher baba wrote:Is it really true that the holding the ball signal is deliberately theatrical?
Oh my, I almost feel ashamed to be an AFL fan
Thomas has always been right about the umps. The current culture is all wrong. The best sporting officials are invisible
meher baba wrote:Is it really true that the holding the ball signal is deliberately theatrical?
Oh my, I almost feel ashamed to be an AFL fan
Thomas has always been right about the umps. The current culture is all wrong. The best sporting officials are invisible
good post...no..........great post.......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
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However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
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markp
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I think just to highlight the lameness, it would be a medley of both.....GrumpyOne wrote:What would be the tune.... Beat It or I'm Bad?markp wrote:When the pr!ck paid that outrageous free against blake on the wing in the last for holding the man, he stuck his hip out, bent his head to one side, pulled on his shirt and froze like he was Michael Jackson waiting for the freakin music to start.... they are total ponces.meher baba wrote:Is it really true that the holding the ball signal is deliberately theatrical?
Oh my, I almost feel ashamed to be an AFL fan
Thomas has always been right about the umps. The current culture is all wrong. The best sporting officials are invisible
loris wrote:dittostinger wrote:gazrat wrote:i still like him
me too mate....me too.....
howyagoing loriswa...long time no read......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
loris wrote:bit sad today stinger.....just can't cope with the idea of no Harves...it's doing my head instinger wrote:loris wrote:dittostinger wrote:gazrat wrote:i still like him
me too mate....me too.....
howyagoing loriswa...long time no read......
mine too......i'm feeling real headachey........didn't realise why...until i saw your other post......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.