We still need to improve - who to come in/go out?

[kaos theory]

Great effort today, but looking ahead to finals, the pressure goes up a level, and poor skill gets punished. We have a chance to do some damage in the finals, we have some quality players, but the weakneses need to be addressed:

There are two players to come in that will improve our skill level, that is:
- Ball (though at times he is a poor kick, he is a very smart player)
- X. Clarke
- Mini (he has been very good in the last few games and has good foot/hand skills)

So who goes out?:

- C. Gardiner: He presents well, but poor skills on the ground & poor decsion making - this will hurt us in a final....just not a afl standard, atm, imo. (put gwilt or raph forward instead...)
- Jones: Is very good at applying midfield pressure. He has gotten better over time, but still is poor with hand and decision-making. A lot better by foot these days....But turnovers are very costly in finals...
- Birss & Mini: These two can fight over the last spot. I would go for mini, assuming he if ok to come back in

Ideally, we need to get a game into Ball & X. Clarke BEFORE the finals. So, if fit they should come in...

[Armoooo]

In : Xavier, Ball
Out: C.Gardiner, Eddy

FB: Gilbert Hudghton Blake
HB: Gram S.Fisher Dempster
C: Montagna Dal Santo Goddard
HF: X.Clarke Riewoldt C.Jones
FF: Milne Koschiztke Schneider
R: King Hayes Ball
I/C: Harvey Gwilt R.Clarke Birss

That would be my ideal lineup...

[Batnoe]

In : Xavier, Ball
Out: C.Gardiner, Eddy

FB: Gilbert Hudghton Blake
HB: Gram S.Fisher Dempster
C: Montagna Dal Santo Goddard
HF: X.Clarke Riewoldt C.Jones
FF: Milne Koschiztke Schneider
R: King Hayes Ball
I/C: Harvey Gwilt R.Clarke Birss

That would be my ideal lineup...

Looks good doesnt it!!!

However with that current team i would line them up this way to spice it up


FB: Gilbert Hudghton Dempster
HB: Gram Blake S Fisher
C: Montagna Goddard Dal Santo
HF: Schneider Riewoldt R Clarke
FF: Milne Koschiztke Gwilt
R: King Hayes Ball
I/C: Harvey X Clarke Jones Birss

I think playing Goddard in the middle is important, he is big and has football smarts

Gwilt is a good forward and helps out Kosi and Roo. I think as Schneider really likes to run to middle of the game he should be on the flank as apposed to pocket. He can also kick 55m. He can get the crumbs by running into fwd 50 and Milne can get them by already being in forward 50.

Blake is a more than capable CHB and that frees up S Fisher to play on opposite back flank as Gram to give us run through the wing

Dal Santo, as he isnt an in an under player, let him play on the wing where he can run free and pin point a pass

The others speak for themselves- i would rotate all of the smaller players through the middle including Fisher and Gram

[mad saint guy]

The players who looked a level below today were C.Gardiner, Eddy and Jones (Raph's fumbling almost gets him in this category but he got away with it most times).

Gardiner is just a slow-thinking footballer with little skill. Makes very poor decisions at crucial stages. Gwilt has well and truly moved past Gardiner.

Eddy gives a good contest and runs all day, but he just doen't do much damage. He doesn't have much pace and his skills are a bit scrappy. If we weren't in the finals then I'd be happy for us to persevere with him, but we can't afford to have strugglers in the team.

Jones sits 15m off his opponent to get a lot of easy kicks, but concedes just as many and his opponent can usually do more damage than him (I've noticed that his wonderful 'chasing and harrassing' is usually Jones trying to catch his opponent, who has just taken a mark in the clear and is running forward with the footy). Jones' disposal in the clear has improved immensely, but under pressure he still coughs the ball up time after time. During our poor start to the year his pressure was needed because no one else was putting in, but you can't get away with his turnovers in finals footy. He'd be put under more pressure than usual and would cost us big time.

Another note - Do NOT let Dempster near the opposition goals. He gets slaughtered in one-on-one contests.

Ideal finals team

B: Blake, Hudghton, S.Fisher
HB: Gram, Gilbert, Dempster
C: Montagna, Goddard, Dal Santo
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Gwilt

Foll: King, Ball, Hayes
Int: Birss, R.Clarke, Harvey, McQualter

OUT: C.Gardiner, Jones, Eddy
IN: McQualter, Ball, X.Clarke

[Goose is king]

I would prefer Jones over mini.

[Teflon]

The players who looked a level below today were C.Gardiner, Eddy and Jones (Raph's fumbling almost gets him in this category but he got away with it most times).

Gardiner is just a slow-thinking footballer with little skill. Makes very poor decisions at crucial stages. Gwilt has well and truly moved past Gardiner.

Eddy gives a good contest and runs all day, but he just doen't do much damage. He doesn't have much pace and his skills are a bit scrappy. If we weren't in the finals then I'd be happy for us to persevere with him, but we can't afford to have strugglers in the team.

Jones sits 15m off his opponent to get a lot of easy kicks, but concedes just as many and his opponent can usually do more damage than him (I've noticed that his wonderful 'chasing and harrassing' is usually Jones trying to catch his opponent, who has just taken a mark in the clear and is running forward with the footy). Jones' disposal in the clear has improved immensely, but under pressure he still coughs the ball up time after time. During our poor start to the year his pressure was needed because no one else was putting in, but you can't get away with his turnovers in finals footy. He'd be put under more pressure than usual and would cost us big time.

Another note - Do NOT let Dempster near the opposition goals. He gets slaughtered in one-on-one contests.

Ideal finals team

B: Blake, Hudghton, S.Fisher
HB: Gram, Gilbert, Dempster
C: Montagna, Goddard, Dal Santo
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Gwilt

Foll: King, Ball, Hayes
Int: Birss, R.Clarke, Harvey, McQualter

OUT: C.Gardiner, Jones, Eddy
IN: McQualter, Ball, X.Clarke

I dont know what Jones did to you in another life but f@rkI founf myself applauding several efforts (and hard ball get efforts/tackles) today.

In a side that looks SO much better when we RUN you want to replace him with Mqualter?

Nup.

Take off the blinker on Jones and BTW I didnt see the glaring "turn overs" you keep waiting for today...I did see Harvs turn it over...what shall we do with him?

[TassieJones]

In : Xavier, Ball
Out: C.Gardiner, Eddy

FB: Gilbert Hudghton Blake
HB: Gram S.Fisher Dempster
C: Montagna Dal Santo Goddard
HF: X.Clarke Riewoldt C.Jones
FF: Milne Koschiztke Schneider
R: King Hayes Ball
I/C: Harvey Gwilt R.Clarke Birss

That would be my ideal lineup...

I agree completely for now. But should Armitage tear it up for Casey I think he should come in, perhaps for Raph.

Also Kosi must be thanking the heavens we have no decent FF options, because he's been in atrocious form. A couple of bags in the VFL to Allen or McEvoy might see them come in in some capacity, altho perhaps not for Kosi.

Finally Baker would be so SO helpful in finals. Unfortunately it looks like he won't make it back, but if he gets back to full fitness I'd love to see him in.

[WayneJudson42]

Ball unlikely to be risked next week.

X? does he have enough match hardness?

Eddy, likely to be dropped if X comes back.

CJ... gee say what you will, but he runs and gets the pill, and harrasses and applies pressure.

Charlie, I don't mind either, but will probably go.

Frankly the quickest improvement will come from Kosi and Dal IMO.

[kaos theory]

B: Blake, Hudghton, S.Fisher
HB: Gram, Gilbert, Dempster
C: Montagna, Goddard, Dal Santo
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, X.Clarke
F: Milne, Koschitzke, Gwilt

Foll: King, Ball, Hayes
Int: Birss, R.Clarke, Harvey, McQualter

OUT: C.Gardiner, Jones, Eddy
IN: McQualter, Ball, X.Clarke

MSG -

That to me looks like the right line up.

There is more talent & ability with the 3 ins on your list.
Jones & Eddy will be stiff to come out, but I've got some concerns on Jones' decsion-making & disposal by hand....it WILL hurt us in a final.

Dempster is doing ok, got no issues with him....

The reason raph 'gets away with it' as you say is that he has much more natural ability than gardiner. He just needs to build confidence and his decision-making will get better. He needs to be played in more attcking roles, where he can be instinctive.

That smother & pass to roo in the last qtr was all class & natural ability....

[Dan Warna]

yep im a convert to CJ

[St Fidelius]

IMO it not a question of Jones over Mini...

It's Mini over Birss...

both have played a defensive roll in the past and it's a matter of who is better...

Hard to pick IMO

[Teflon]

I appreciate this threads focus on foot/hand skills hurting you in finals butwe must remember we also have to work with what weve got - we arent dropping jones to bring in Buckley...we are talking Jones for Mqualter type trades.....we aint going through the roof in skills on that shift AND possible lose some real pace/ability to carry the footy through the corridor.

We have multiple, one paced footballers who are good in close - Birss, Mqualter, Ball, Hayes etc we DONT have many players with the closing speed/pressure Jones brings.

[Teflon]

IMO it not a question of Jones over Mini...

It's Mini over Birss...

both have played a defensive roll in the past and it's a matter of who is better...

Hard to pick IMO

great post - Id tried to say that and used 200 words...you did it in far less.

spot on.

[mad saint guy]

I appreciate this threads focus on foot/hand skills hurting you in finals butwe must remember we also have to work with what weve got - we arent dropping jones to bring in Buckley...we are talking Jones for Mqualter type trades.

I would say it is Jones for Xavier actually. The role of the quick half forward/midfielder who pressures the opposition defence. X has just as much pace as Jones, but is very creative with the footy and is excellent at delivering to the forwards.

McQualter would play as a tagger and Birss as a relief midfielder/half forward. I don't see Birss as the defensive player that many do.

[Teflon]

I appreciate this threads focus on foot/hand skills hurting you in finals butwe must remember we also have to work with what weve got - we arent dropping jones to bring in Buckley...we are talking Jones for Mqualter type trades.

I would say it is Jones for Xavier actually. The role of the quick half forward/midfielder who pressures the opposition defence. X has just as much pace as Jones, but is very creative with the footy and is excellent at delivering to the forwards.

McQualter would play as a tagger and Birss as a relief midfielder/half forward. I don't see Birss as the defensive player that many do.

I think Birrs and Mqualter are a type of player that we have more of that can do that role than we X/Jones types?

Id play both Jone and X in the side as both are quick,can tackle...X can turn the footy over also...hes no Buckley.....

Birrs CAN do a shut down role, CAN go forward and also kick goals,

The days of defensive only taggers that hurt you little the other way (Mqualter) IMO are gone.

[kaos theory]

I appreciate this threads focus on foot/hand skills hurting you in finals butwe must remember we also have to work with what weve got - we arent dropping jones to bring in Buckley...we are talking Jones for Mqualter type trades.....we aint going through the roof in skills on that shift AND possible lose some real pace/ability to carry the footy through the corridor

Teff...

point is that once ball & x. Clarke come in, then jones has to come out...otherwise team balance gets impacted.

mini plays a role of a tagger, more so than jones. So birss & mini will be probaly fighting for the same spot. Jones is probabaly keeping X. Clarke's spot. And X has far more up side...IF X doesn't come up, then Jones is probably safe

It will be tough, but jones, eddy & gardiner will be the ones fighting for spots, with gardiner first to go out...

[kaos theory]

err...just seen msg's post, virtully the same line of thought as mine...

[Teflon]

I appreciate this threads focus on foot/hand skills hurting you in finals butwe must remember we also have to work with what weve got - we arent dropping jones to bring in Buckley...we are talking Jones for Mqualter type trades.....we aint going through the roof in skills on that shift AND possible lose some real pace/ability to carry the footy through the corridor

Teff...

point is that once ball & x. Clarke come in, then jones has to come out...otherwise team balance gets impacted.

mini plays a role of a tagger, more so than jones. So birss & mini will be probaly fighting for the same spot. Jones is probabaly keeping X. Clarke's spot. And X has far more up side...IF X doesn't come up, then Jones is probably safe

It will be tough, but jones, eddy & gardiner will be the ones fighting for spots, with gardiner first to go out...

Not sure I agree Kaos on team balance

To me its relatively simple.

IN - Ball , X

Out Gardiner, Eddy.

Jones and X should play in the one side.

Mqualter is a pure shut down tagger - Birrs CAN do this and also score? Id take Birss....

[St Fidelius]

IMO it not a question of Jones over Mini...

It's Mini over Birss...

both have played a defensive roll in the past and it's a matter of who is better...

Hard to pick IMO

great post - Id tried to say that and used 200 words...you did it in far less.

spot on.

Yeah Birss did a great job on Van Berlo and it would be hard for him to be dropped IMO

Mini has done well in the past in a tagging role but I would some what doubt Birss would be dropped on his efforts on Van Berlo, Van Berlo was in great nick in the last 3 matches and Birss did a great job...

pretty tough to drop him IMO, having said that I still like Mini...

but Birss deserves a spot for his performance

[Teflon]

IMO it not a question of Jones over Mini...

It's Mini over Birss...

both have played a defensive roll in the past and it's a matter of who is better...

Hard to pick IMO

great post - Id tried to say that and used 200 words...you did it in far less.

spot on.

Yeah Birss did a great job on Van Berlo and it would be hard for him to be dropped IMO

Mini has done well in the past in a tagging role but I would some what doubt Birss would be dropped on his efforts on Van Berlo, Van Berlo was in great nick in the last 3 matches and Birss did a great job...

pretty tough to drop him IMO, having said that I still like Mini...

but Birss deserves a spot for his performance

I also reckon Birrs CAN go fwd more so than Mini.....he gets the nod for this for mine.

[saintsRrising]

I note that CJ earnt 25 disposals today....a Saints career hire for him.

Interestingly to note that in X's 104 games that he has only once earnt 25 or more disposals (26).

[bigcarl]

To me its relatively simple.

IN - Ball , X

Out Gardiner, Eddy.

Jones and X should play in the one side.

probably about right, though i thought charlie showed a few good signs.

took a couple of nice marks and every time someone else presents in the forward line it takes huge pressure off roo.

bally must play if fit of course and i'd like to see X in, too. it's just a question of who misses.

[SAINT JUMP]

Some of you guys,want to take cj out for x. Played what 5 games this year. no game this week. I think msg, it wouldnt matter what cj or some other payers,did in a game, you would want them replaced. For some reason you dont, like the kid, but then half the time, you dont even watch the game.

[bigcarl]

Some of you guys,want to take cj out for x.

cj would be pretty safe, i'd say. he gave us a bit of spark and didn't drop his head when the chips were down early and no-one else was getting much of a touch. kept up the same intensity all day, too.

he's an unfashionable player because of his awkward kicking and disposal, but he's a real goer.

[james rose]

I don't think you should drop both jones and eddy... too much pace going out of the team...

charlie took some good grabs around the ground today so he'd still feel stiff

and birss did a good job defensively having said all that if certain players are going to play in the finals we want to give them a run this week

gehrig(who knows but if theres a game to try again its this one)
x(I'd want to see one afl standard game before including him in the finals)
bakes(season over)

in a different category I'd have ball as he's played alot of the year anyway.

so i'd be limiting my changes to one

In: X (if fit)
out: eddy

possible options:
Gehrig??? or if we think they can contribute in finals big mac or allen
for
Gardiner

mini (think this one depends on match ups more than anything
for
birss

Ball
for
jones